I Have A Troubled Son. What should I do?

[Anonymous]

Update on my son:

started day program this AM. Got there late because he didn't want to get up. Last night we had a pretty good family session before he left the brief 7 day inpatient program. On the way home he screamed in my face because I wouldn't let him use my cell to call his friends (their numbers are blocked at home). Later last night he got on the computer and blew up when he saw I had restricted his access so that he couldn't get on myspace. He screamed a while and said he might as well end it now and he hung his body half-way off the 2nd floor balcony. I ignored him and he came downstairs and went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch as he yelled, "You sent me to that place."  Then I grabbed him and told him I wasn't going to hit him back. Then asked him if it made him feel good to hit his dad in the face. He said, "no." He was calm the rest of the night, but I think he stayed up most of the night trying to 'catch up' on TV and playing video games. He wouldn't go to bed at 11:00. Trying to force him to go to bed results in a fight and defeats the purpose.

what did he mean by "you sent me to that place"?

Oh.. and ignore milk if he acts like an asshole.  he does that.

He was talking about the 7 day inpatient program he just got out of. He hated being "locked up." Guess he would really hate a TBS, huh?

No, he will love it and thank you for saving his life. Do you want him to grow up and hate you for not doing something while his life went down the tubes?! Get in gear Dad and stop "trying" and actually take concrete action, send your teen to a private program today!

[psy]

Update on my son:

started day program this AM. Got there late because he didn't want to get up. Last night we had a pretty good family session before he left the brief 7 day inpatient program. On the way home he screamed in my face because I wouldn't let him use my cell to call his friends (their numbers are blocked at home). Later last night he got on the computer and blew up when he saw I had restricted his access so that he couldn't get on myspace. He screamed a while and said he might as well end it now and he hung his body half-way off the 2nd floor balcony. I ignored him and he came downstairs and went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch as he yelled, "You sent me to that place."  Then I grabbed him and told him I wasn't going to hit him back. Then asked him if it made him feel good to hit his dad in the face. He said, "no." He was calm the rest of the night, but I think he stayed up most of the night trying to 'catch up' on TV and playing video games. He wouldn't go to bed at 11:00. Trying to force him to go to bed results in a fight and defeats the purpose.

what did he mean by "you sent me to that place"?

Oh.. and ignore milk if he acts like an asshole.  he does that.

He was talking about the 7 day inpatient program he just got out of. He hated being "locked up." Guess he would really hate a TBS, huh?

Yup.  He would.  And he wouldn't be very happy when he got out either.  Most kids who were at the TBS i was in don't talk to their parents anymore.

Maia Slavitz, who wrote "Help at Any Cost" found out that kids in TBS schools have the same sucess rates on average as those with no help at all.

Your kid won't improve until he realizes he has a problem...  He might not have a drug problem. If he's only smoking pot?  Who hasn't done that when they were teenagers.  As for his depression... that he needs help for.  

What helped another mother on this site?  Her son used to hang around with the same crowd.  Eventually, one of his friends got in big trouble.  He then realized he didn't want to go that route.  Maybe you could engineer something like that.  Hire a PI, take photos, deliver package to popo.

I think it's common sense.. but don't tell your kid you did this when the kid gets in trouble.

[Troll Control]

Pops, you're doing fine.  

I'm glad you said "forcing" things is counter-productive.  Reasonable people know this.  However, in TBS/EG/WT, it's all about force, both physical and psychological.  It's incredibly damaging to the child.

Sounds to me like you're on the right track.  Keep us updated if you have time.  If you need any specific advice, please feel free to PM me at your convenience...

[Truth Searcher]

went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch

Dad~

I have to seriously disagree with psy's advise on this matter.  This is abuse ... pure and simple.  NO ONE has the right to "pummel" someone else for ANY reason.

You are sending your son the message that physical violence is an appropriate method of expressing his emotions.  That it is OK to punch a human being when he doesn't get his way.

Someday, he will take that lesson to his marriage.  When his wife does not give in to his protestations and emotional manipulations, he will resort to making her his human punching bag.

Perhaps someday when he is confronted by a boss, he will resort to physical violence to make his point.

Or God forbid, someday when he has a child of his own he will resort to punching when he has no better anger management skill.

You are not teaching your son to be responsible.  You are not teaching him to respect others.  You are not teaching him to manage his anger effectively.

Violence is always wrong.  ALWAYS.  Next time call 911 and let him suffer the real life consequences of pummeling someone.


PSY ~ I usually respect your perspectives, but you're way off on this one.  If my husband was frustrated with me for something would you honestly advise me to just let him haul off and pummel me?  Or would you begin to show me that this constitutes spousal abuse?  I think we both know the answer to that question.

[psy]

went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch

Dad~

I have to seriously disagree with psy's advise on this matter.  This is abuse ... pure and simple.  NO ONE has the right to "pummel" someone else for ANY reason.

You are sending your son the message that physical violence is an appropriate method of expressing his emotions.  That it is OK to punch a human being when he doesn't get his way.

Someday, he will take that lesson to his marriage.  When his wife does not give in to his protestations and emotional manipulations, he will resort to making her his human punching bag.

Perhaps someday when he is confronted by a boss, he will resort to physical violence to make his point.

Or God forbid, someday when he has a child of his own he will resort to punching when he has no better anger management skill.

You are not teaching your son to be responsible.  You are not teaching him to respect others.  You are not teaching him to manage his anger effectively.

Violence is always wrong.  ALWAYS.  Next time call 911 and let him suffer the real life consequences of pummeling someone.


PSY ~ I usually respect your perspectives, but you're way off on this one.  If my husband was frustrated with me for something would you honestly advise me to just let him haul off and pummel me?  Or would you begin to show me that this constitutes spousal abuse?  I think we both know the answer to that question.

Read why i suggested it before condemning me.  Would you rather he did what he did before: pummel the kid back!?!?  That didn't work.  At least here, the kid admitted he didn't feel good about it.  Pummeling him back would make him feel justified and further the conflict.  He might feel it's ok to attack his father since he fights back.  Violence is ended when one party refuses to participate in it.  Period.  I'm not a Christian but there is a lot of wisdom in "turn the other cheek (offer him the other)"  The father chose not to respond, and the kid felt bad about hitting him.  From now on, if he attacks his father, he will do so dishonorably, by attacking a defenseless target.

The point is to make the kid feel shame.  The point is for the kid to look at his father ignoring his blows and say to himself "could i do that, do i have the strength?"...  The point is to make the kid realize that he hurt somebody else.  Read my original advice before condemning me.

I aggree the kid probably needs anger management, but kids learn from their parents... if the father pummels the kid back.. it sends the message that pummeling each other is a rational, healthy way of dealing with family disagreements...

Maybe he needs anger management, but let's see if he stops on his own.

What good would the police do?  What if the kid is stupid enough to fight back?  There's a reason why it's called "less than lethal force", not "non-lethal force"...  You want to put the kid in jail, and teach him that he's a total fuck-up.  No.  The solution is to teach the kid that he's worth something.. by giving him something positive to do, a sense of purpose. That's one reason why i think the computer school his father suggested (3 hours a day) would be a great idea for him.  It only works if he finds it interesting though... which is why i asked what he was interested in.

[Nihilanthic]

Ever considered that becuase he is cooped up, pent up, has no friends or outlets or even contact via ]MYSPACE he is so frustrated?

Being cooped up and having zero outlets can make you build up until you snap, I'd know from experience.

Including the present but that's more due to the DMV in the bass-ackwards state of NC and my financial situation, but at any rate, think about it.

[Truth Searcher]

ORIGINALLY QUOTED BY PSY:

Violence is ended when one party refuses to participate in it.

Good point Psy ...  by allowing oneself to be "pummeled" he IS participating in the violence.  Your a psych major right?  Certainly you understand that Dad is enabling his son's violent behavior when he "accepts" the violence.  

I certainly NEVER suggested that the dad resort to like violence.  That would solve nothing.  But neither does allowing oneself to be the victim of violence.  

While it MAY appear that this tact "worked", I might argue that son released pent up hostilities and felt better.  I didn't hear any reports of the "kid feeling bad" about hitting his dad.  He stated that he didn't feel any better.  Big difference in my opinion.  To pummel ones father (a defenseless target) is dishonorable.  Whether it was the first time or the tenth time.

How long do we allow him to pummel people before the family says "Geez .... I guess he's not going to stop on his own."  

BTW ... I read the whole thread ... including your original advise.  I did not in any way condemn you ... I pointed out that your advise is not sound.  I stand by that.

I will reiterate ... violence is NEVER OK.  Not against a child, not against a spouse and not against a parent.

What good would the police do?  Perhaps they would teach the lad (at an earlier rather than a later age) that we can not lash out violently when we don't get our way.  Perhaps it may mean a stay in a juvenile facility for a period of time.  But, that would be a hell of a lot better than a felonious conviction for assault and battery as an adult.

[Nihilanthic]

He'd just get stuck in the juvie system as a violent offender and the father would lose control of the situation.

Besides if he can post on the internet about it he's not exactly injured, now is he?

I think you should take your hands off and say "get a job", but that's me.

[psy]

@ Truth Searcher

Hid dad grabbed him and asked him if he "felt good"..  The kid said "no".  Depending on the intonation and way he said "no" you could be right.  But personally, i think the kid probably felt a bit guilty.  In any case.. it got him to think about it a bit more than if he was tending to his bloody nose.

I'm actually not a psych major, although my mom used to practice psychology and i grew up with the DSM-3R as bathroom reading material (odd kid).  My mom used to talk to me about psychology all the time.  I'm actually an art student (former IT worker).  Why such a shift?  Experimenting with my noodle.  ("building bridges" between L and R modes)

I do not feel that he is enabling his son's violence by not responding to it.  I feel the way he was responding to his son's violence was enabling it.  Why?  Monkey see - monkey do.

I do not feel the father was allowing himself to be the "victim" of violence.  A victim cannot fight back. His father chose not to fight back.

Might his son only feel it is acceptable to attack his father because he responds? Might he be challenging his authority?  In which case: what do you want him to see as strength?

If he continues.. i would aggree he needs outside help (although I still disagree on the cops).  Consequences are one thing... but putting him in jail might make him think that he's "destined" to failure...  What else might he learn in there?  How to shoot heroin?  It might scare him into turning around.. or it might scare him into fitting in...  Come on.  There are more ways to help a kid than throwing the book at him...

This is what i would do if i were the kid's father:  i would let him punch me until he gave me a bloody nose and/or black eye.  If he didn't succeed.  I might do it myself.  The next morning.  When he sees the black eye.  what do you think he might feel?  Might he feel guilty enough to want to get some anger management / therapy?  Might the kid worry about what his father might tell his coworkers (i suggest something like: wife hit me *hahahahahaha*, no i was kneeling down fixing the bathroom doorhandle and somebody opened it.)  By fighting back the kid learns nothing about his own capability to cause damage by his violent actions.  By not responding he would learn "ooh.  when i fight, somebody besides me can get hurt"  This tactic employs the centuries old, tried and true, tactic of "catholic style guilt trip".

I know it sounds absolutely crazy, and perhaps it's a wee bit manipulative, but it's the father's choice.  And it's what I would do if my son continued to do that.

[Anonymous]

How old is this kid and what is his size?

He is 15 / 6" long, medium width.

[Anonymous]

I have a 11 year old daughter that has started hitting me when I confront with her lying to me or she not doing something that she is suppose to have done. Example..... The other day she was told to bring something from her room that we need for an emergancy situtation, I repeated to her again and she wanted to give me the "dumb dog look" like I was stupid and that I could get it myself. I had gotten up to go get the item from her room and she smarted off to me, instead of popping her in the mouth I took a hand full of hair and pulled her aside that is when she knocked the breath out of me with her fist. Mind you things where tense at the moment because of the emergancy but I know I didn't pull her as hard as I wanted to because I didn't want to hurt her. It really caught me off by surprise.

[psy]

I have a 11 year old daughter that has started hitting me when I confront with her lying to me or she not doing something that she is suppose to have done. Example..... The other day she was told to bring something from her room that we need for an emergancy situtation, I repeated to her again and she wanted to give me the "dumb dog look" like I was stupid and that I could get it myself. I had gotten up to go get the item from her room and she smarted off to me, instead of popping her in the mouth I took a hand full of hair and pulled her aside that is when she knocked the breath out of me with her fist. Mind you things where tense at the moment because of the emergancy but I know I didn't pull her as hard as I wanted to because I didn't want to hurt her. It really caught me off by surprise.

Pulling her hair probably caused a spike in her adrenaline.  She was probably shocked by what you did and responded without thinking.  Moral of the story: Don't touch your daughter like that.

Does she ever do it if you don't touch her first?

Ps.  this thread is focused on "TryingDad"  if you want, you can always start a new thread on the forum.  If you don't like smart-assed responses from people (this "Troubled teen industry" forum is unmoderated), try asking for help in the "facilities questions" forum.

A lot of people come onto fornits and pretend to be parents.  It happens often enough that you are likely to get accused of being a "troll" (internet drama queen)...

So, if you are a real parent, i would suggest asking for help in the "facilities questions" forum.

[Dad Trying]

Him threatening to kill himself:

Program interpretation: Manipulation
 what happens: his attempts are ignored, on day he suceeds.  i've seen it happen

Psychologist's interpretation: Cry for Help
 what happens: he gets therapy, things improve


As for ombudsman:  sounds good.  It's part time and the kid lives at home.  It may give him something he feels he's good at.  What are his interests?

I talked to him about Ombudsman tonight. I thought he would like only 3 -4 hrs of school, zip through the material, and go home. He says he learns better by listening to teachers. He wants it spoon fed to him. Says he wants to go to "normal school."

His interests are guitar and his loser friends.

[Anonymous]

His interests are guitar and his loser friends.

As well as masturbating and watching his parents have sex through the hole he drilled in ceiling. He's good with the electronical stuff. Being a young lad, watching your parent fornicate, is there anything better?

[Anonymous]

Do what is right for your son and let someone else unravel the damage you keep inflicting on your child.

On any other forum that would be good advice, but here...