How about some damn ANSWERS.

[Anonymous]

Listen, take it from a student, yes the desisto program did help some kids, but at what cost? There were plenty of more sane and humane ways to help kids than the psychological abuse and neglect; the very real crimes comitted upon kids by staff and policy, etc...

The means do not justify the ends.

besides, the school program leaves these students with such an insane dependancy on this program tthat they are hardly functioning members of society when they get done...
kids keptt coming back for years after graduation due to the fact that they were simply left unprepared for normal life. I think sucess should be measured by how adjusted to society the graduates became, not by convincing them that the outside world is operating wrong and everything with school (and only school) is right...

I will speak out about what went on tthere and will continue to do so. I myself bared witness to many kids who were supposedly putt in this "safe nurturing environment" who were not properly helped or kept safe from themselves. I mean you cant have that much glass around for these kids to chop themselves up with...

It just plain wasnt a safe place and thats why they couldntt get licensed, not because they "were persecuted by the state"
To hear frank McNear and Brian Sweeney talk they sound like they had every right to regulate themselves without state supervision. This is the ego coming out to play. The state sees a need to regulate these sort of schools because protecting these kids is important and institutions like desisto need regulation, otherwise they would continue operating on its shoestring-no safety budget. They skimped on staff to student ratio, innadequate crisis training, and threw all the money into Desisto's pocket and legal defense fund. This is why government regulation is essential: desisto couldnt sacrifice its massive profit margins for adequate training and staff numbers. Especially at the ungodly 30,000+ a year tuition.


it is very frightening that they up and hightailed to san miguel, where they are free to do as they please in a mexican state that can do very little to watch over these groups. I feel for these last 15 mexico students, i really fear for them.

and if you are a parent i beg you not to send you to this new hellhole in unregulated mexico.

dcept360

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-30 04:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"They need to deal with allot of hate and resentment

Yes, there is much anger and resentment for being locked away for years at a time, being sleep deprived, undernuourished and beaten.  There's A LOT of resentment and anger, justifiably so.


 

the bottom line is all the complaing you hear is from the most messed up and stubborn kids, who refuse to do anything when they get to these schools and get phsical at times and need to be restrained.

More program dogma.  The only ones who complain are the disgruntled druggies.  Hmmm, where have we heard THAT before. :roll:

There is no physical contact unless a kid loses control.

First, BULLSHIT.  Kids get "physical contact" (as you put it) for not looking forward, for looking out the window too long, for not journaling (or whatever, whichever program calls it) etc. etc. etc.

Second, let's say for the sake of arguement that your statement is 'correct'.  Who defines what "losing control" is?

A parent knows it is going to 3-6 months before they will be able to talk to thier child and can write letters until then.

This is again the hardest decision these parents are making in thier lives, and i see tears from not only the kids, but both mothers and fathers.I have seen grown men weep like babies.

Yeah, yeah....my mom cried a river too.  Doesn't mean that what happened to me was any less destructive and devastating.  She was scared into thinking that THIS was the only way to help me.

But they know what they are doing is right and that they have tried everything they could and do not want thier kids dead or in jail.

More dogma.  DEADINSANEORINJAIL.  EVERY fucking program in the book spews out this shit.  What about all the poor unfortunates that DON'T get into a program...are they ALL deadinsaneorinjail?   Funny, about .01% of the peeps I was hanging with before going in are doing fine and they were more "screwed up" (not really, but according to dogma) than I was.  How come they're not DEADINSANEORINJAIL?.

Do you people think AA, or NA, or CA are brainwashing millions of people to stop drugs?

Someone said it earlier, but MY problem with AA is the learned helplessness it creates.
http://orange-papers.org/orange-powerless.html

along with how very close it runs to a cult.  NOT SAYING IT'S A FULLBLOWN CULT....BUT THAT IT HAS MANY, MANY, MANY CULT CHARACTERISTICS.
http://orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

Not to mention that it's "success rate" is 5%...the exact same success rate of doing nothing...that's right...nothing.  It's called spontaneous remission and the rate for that is 5%
http://orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

This one is just for fun.  click on the video on the right.
http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do?topic=12

[Antigen]

On 2004-12-30 10:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

it is very frightening that they up and hightailed to san miguel, where they are free to do as they please in a mexican state that can do very little to watch over these groups. I feel for these last 15 mexico students, i really fear for them.

Hey, Mexico seems to be cracking down on these places right about now. Just search on mexico in these forums or on casa by the sea in the search engines to get the names of individuals and agencies to tip off about Desisto.

All I ask is equal freedom.  When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow.
--H.L. Mencken

[Anonymous]

5% success rate and AA is the only approved program for drug/alcohol 'treatment'. What's wrong with that picture? They should take some tips from the teen BM torture industry who claim a 95% success rate.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Since you know so much mr. one who cares.... does the 50% or the 100% portion contain the appropriate calories. Most states, those who give a flyin f about the kids state that meals must meet federal guidelines, variety must be provided, and that seconds must be available. In addition, that calories are to be increased if the program requires excessive exercion or work in extreme weather conditions. So which is it? And if I chose the 50% portion, because I don't know if the meal is going to taste good or like shit (and who wants to eat 100% of shitty food)... can I go back for seconds?

Give us a month worth of menus mr know it all. We're waiting. How much do you really know about the inside?

[Anonymous]

Wow - what's all this have to do with the ORIGINAL questions posed about seminars?  So full of hate and blame, but it's off subject big time.

[Nihilanthic]

oh really?

I wanted ANSWERS about the programs methods. About the WHAT... the HOW all this shit takes place.

The seminars are intentionally mysterious, controvertial, and often considered the most abusive part - so small wonder theres a lot of talk about it! It seems to be the only thing therapeutic at all!!!

All the program bullshit seems to be is forcing conformity and submissive obedience. Thats not something to be PROUD of for treating a god DAMNED thing except a dog.

Q. I simply ask, why is PUNISHMENT the solution with regards to the narrow group of behaviors which encompass illegal drug use....?

A.Pharmaceutical Business, both legal and illegal, run by the same people either way, money coming to the middle from both ends.  Bush.
http://www.luxefaire.com/' target='_new'>Bill Gallagher

[Anonymous]

All they know how to do is complain! Perigaud did you see anyone get restrained for no reason or for looking out a window? You see Perigaud is the only one i will believe because she was there. And you still won't believe her. I am going on statements from kids in the program and the kids that are out like perigaud. Are you there or are you just so blinded that you will never see any other view than yours.I am tired of wasting my time debating the same things over and over again and agian. I see Again a very small handful on this site and i think i have read about 5 -10 names of people debating against the schools. And by the way I don't know how it came up on this thread, but when i was at Desisto, I did not personally like the man, but i was never abused in my 8 months there and never saw or heard about anyone being abused. I can't speak for the years to follow. Again kids are kids and don't have the rights of an 18 year old, that is the truth and a parent has every legal right to try to help thier kid, and that means putting them into placement. I know you are trying to piss me off by calling me a kidnapper, but if the police and the government don't call me that, than i'm sorry but i am not.
I know very well what i do and all the crap you guys spew only makes me laugh!The one that cares

[Anonymous]

Oh and by the way, after what you have said about The AA program I know you are a bunch of idiots!!You just proved it to me,and nothing you say will mean anything to me.The one that cares
IDIOTS!!

[Anonymous]

Look dildo, that was one person...ME.  I posted my PERSONAL OPINION of AA.  NO ONE ELSE.  

Nice try though.

Question their dogma and they RUN!!! :lol:  :lol:

[Antigen]

On 2004-12-30 15:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"All they know how to do is complain! Perigaud did you see anyone get restrained for no reason or for looking out a window? You see Perigaud is the only one i will believe because she was there. And you still won't believe her.

Ok, that's not exactly an answer, but at least it's an allusion to the question.

So then I take it that you've never actually discussed this w/ a former student?

So, essentially, you simply dismiss out of hand anyone who tells you, either directly or through the media or through sworn testimony, that things like this happen to children who you take, by force, to these programs. But if this stranger on the net who claims to have benefited from the WWASP program types that they do not, you'll consider that proof of absence of abuse?

Let me explain something to you. When I was in Straight, I got "restrained" by half a dozen girls for refusing to make an insincere apology to Group for having tried to escape. After that, I was put into "timeout", which was a largish walk-in closet sized room where 3 - 6 other clients would yell in your face, poke you, shove me into the walls, etc. to try and provoke a violent response. I didn't help them. But one of them did lose her temper and busted my nose anyway.

When I got out, Straight was under investigation by Florida's children's services agency. They asked me if I wanted to testify about any abuse I'd experience or witnessed and I declined. Not that I was that afraid or that I didn't care so much as that I truly and honestly didn't think that I had witnessed or experienced any abuse. I thought it was my fault I got my nose broken because, after all, I could have avoided it by just saying I was sorry for running away, right?

So what do you think? Was that an unprovoked restraint or should I have just sucked it up, swallowed my pride and pretended to be sorry for trying to escape a bad situation? Remember, honesty is the first and most impotent rule!

Drug War tells us everyone's body is common property
to be managed by the central government for our own
good, even if it kills us.  This is Communism!
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

Again kids are kids and don't have the rights of an 18 year old,

Bull fucking shit!!!!  They may not have as many PRIVILEGES as an 18 year old, but they DAMN sure have the same fundamental rights.  Asswipe.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-30 15:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Oh and by the way, after what you have said about The AA program I know you are a bunch of idiots!!You just proved it to me,and nothing you say will mean anything to me.The one that cares

IDIOTS!!"

OK, try THIS on.  

BTW, after you professing your belief in a completely FUCKED UP system and a completely FUCKED UP form of religion (AA), and thoroughly endoresed thought and mind control, nothing you say will mean anything to me.  

 Works both ways dearie.   :wave:

[Anonymous]

/endorsed   :tup: Woops.

[Anonymous]

Do you people think AA, or NA, or CA are brainwashing millions of people to stop drugs?

Hey dildo...you asked. If you don't want to hear the answer, don't fucking ask the question.  :wave:

I love to see all the little programmites run in horror when you dare question their gods. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Nihilanthic]

I'd love for this to somehow end up on the daily show or in one of Lewis Blacks rants. :grin:

I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer