AAAAbundant life academy

[spots]

Amanda...I now have a Casa by the Sea survivor lving with us (our oldest grandaughter).  She spent almost one year at age 14 in Casa, and has been with *us* now for almost one year.  She's now 16, and a junior in our local high school.

She has a boyfriend, numerous girlfriends (she's at a sleepover birthday party tonight), and is liked by her teachers.  She is struggling with schoolwork, but we continue to help and her achievements continue coming, even in little baby steps.  She mourns the lack of attention and indifference to her continuing life of her parents, but she is growing into adulthood and recognizing that Life sometimes sucks.  She will someday be a really fine young woman and a wonderful mother and wife...or single, if she chooses.  In any event, she is moving on successfully.

My best wishes to you as you move beyond a very bad experience.  Paige has stepped in as a loving adult who worked hard to "capture" you, and she should be applauded.  She is like a parent to you, but you should remember that there are tremendous ups-and-downs in parenting.  All will not go smoothly.  Throughout your life, please remember the Big Picture and love the humans in this world who truly care about your future...including all of us on Fornits.

[Anonymous]

Amanda---some good advice: ignore the used-god salesman who thinks he knows you.

Pick a profession and a trade to learn as ways to earn your living.  When the economy is up for the professions, it's usually down for the trades, and vice versa.

Work hard to learn that profession and trade.

Get a job, pay your bills, avoid people whose lives are social soap operas and avoid having your life be a social soap opera, and move on with your life.

The life experience of working, paying your bills, and taking care of your own self will do more to grow you up than anything *anyone* can say to you.

After a year out on your own, with your new adult maturity, take a good close look at your religious life and your spirituality and decide from your own heart and mind what you think is a good and right way to live, and make your best call about the whole religion thing.  Live that way.

Spirituality and religion are important, but you need to become a grownup first.  How you become a grownup is by learning to stand on your own two feet and pay your bills, and by doing it.

Avoid credit cards.  They're about as bad as street drugs for getting in over your head and screwing up your life.  Get one for emergencies, get one with no annual fee or the lowest one you can find, and a grace period, only use it for those emergencies, and pay it off every month.

Nobody's perfect.  This is not a test.  If this had been a test, you would have been issued paper and pencil instead of a Real Life.

Never forget to stop and smell the roses, and the daffodils, and the hyacinths, and the......

The AA Serenity Prayer---it's not just for alcoholics---and living one day at a time works for anybody.

Best Wishes,
         Timoclea

[Antigen]

On 2004-11-14 18:04:00, cherish wisdom wrote:

"Annon said to Amanda:



   "I pray that God give you no peace as long as you walk contrary to Him. As long as you live rebelliously, I pray that you have no peace. I pray that God bless you as you turn your heart to Him.



Is this really what Christ would encourage you to do? To pray that a child has no peace? Why don't you pick up the Bible and read it for yourself?

You are praying that a child find misery and pain in life.  Not very Christian of you my friend[ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2004-11-14 18:05 ]"

A-Men and A-Men! Just skimming as I haven't had time to read much lately. Just wanted to say hi, thanks for this and to Amanda  :nworthy: You're one tough cookie!

I also wanted to point something out about our anon friend. A lot of people assume it's Craig because he/she is always towing the line. But I don't think so and it's more than just the source of origin. After all, it's not hard at all to use several access points. Plenty of people do it just for convenience if, say, they need a cheap sattelite uplink for their lap top.

There's another reason. Craig wouldn't say he prays for God to visit missery on someone. Craig would say he spoke to God earlier and God assured him personally that he will visit hellfire and damnation on the person under discussion.

Just my observation. Am I wrong?  :em:

Under the benign influence of our republican institutions, and the maintenance of peace with all nations whilst so many of them were engaged in bloody and wasteful wars, the fruits of a just policy were enjoyed in an unrivaled growth of our faculties and resources.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/foundingdocs/inaugural/madison1stinaug.html' target='_new'>James Madison

[Antigen]

On 2004-11-19 08:49:00, Anonymous wrote:

 I happen to know Amanda, Paige, the extended family and adoptive parents quite well.

Really! That's odd because Amanda and Paige have both said that they live in Texas and you're not posting from Texas. So, if you don't mind my asking, how is it that you have come to know these folks so well?

Oh, and before you go prattling on about your precious anonymity please note that 1) I think you sort of waived the right when you started making these wild statements about this kid and 2) there are a whole lot of people who, like you, are not in Texas.

Please answer the question cause I just assume that you're full of beans, you don't know these people, you only heard about them from some others who also do not reside in Texas and/or, Like Amanda (may have done), you're a minor in AAA and just saying what you have to say to avoid retribution (in which case, don't worry, be happy, we'll all understand once the chips fall where they may)

If we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion by education

--Thomas Jefferson

[Antigen]

Timoclea,
  Religion is the opus of the masses and subject to the very same risk/benefit assessment.

Good, eh? I thunk it up myself while having my ear bent by a very well intende parson the other day.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
--Unanimous

[Anonymous]

On 2004-11-20 15:09:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2004-11-14 18:04:00, cherish wisdom wrote:


"Annon said to Amanda:





   "I pray that God give you no peace as long as you walk contrary to Him. As long as you live rebelliously, I pray that you have no peace. I pray that God bless you as you turn your heart to Him.





Is this really what Christ would encourage you to do? To pray that a child has no peace? Why don't you pick up the Bible and read it for yourself?


You are praying that a child find misery and pain in life.  Not very Christian of you my friend[ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2004-11-14 18:05 ]"

A-Men and A-Men! Just skimming as I haven't had time to read much lately. Just wanted to say hi, thanks for this and to Amanda  :nworthy: You're one tough cookie!



I also wanted to point something out about our anon friend. A lot of people assume it's Craig because he/she is always towing the line. But I don't think so and it's more than just the source of origin. After all, it's not hard at all to use several access points. Plenty of people do it just for convenience if, say, they need a cheap sattelite uplink for their lap top.



There's another reason. Craig wouldn't say he prays for God to visit missery on someone. Craig would say he spoke to God earlier and God assured him personally that he will visit hellfire and damnation on the person under discussion.



Just my observation. Am I wrong?  :em:

Under the benign influence of our republican institutions, and the maintenance of peace with all nations whilst so many of them were engaged in bloody and wasteful wars, the fruits of a just policy were enjoyed in an unrivaled growth of our faculties and resources.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/foundingdocs/inaugural/madison1stinaug.html' target='_new'>James Madison

"

Yes, you are wrong.  Nothing was said about wishing misery on the girl.  Only that she not find peace as long as she persists in her rebellious behavior.  

There is a big difference.  

No one would ever want anything bad to happen to her.  That would not be right.  However, one cannot expect her life to be blessed as long as she continues to live in rebellion against her parents.

You cannot expect the Lord to bless you when you disobey Him.  Dishonoring your parents is disobeying God.  Period.

The posting from the person claiming to know the family is very revealing.  It certainly paints a different picture than the stuff posted by the person who started posting this whole drama.  

This is an open forum.  It has certainly achieved its purpose, to keep the conversation going.  Unfortunately, there are those who feel that unless someone thinks the same as they do, that they shouldn't be able to post. After reading the posting by the person who says they know the family, and the postings of the person who started this whole drama, the person stating to know the family deffinately sounds more believeable.  Think about it.  The behavior outlined in the posting certainly warrants a drastic response, which is exactly what the parents did by sending their child off to Mexico in the first place.  Parents don't just send their children off for no good reason.  

It would appear that the picture of the child that had been painted prior to the posting by the person who knows the family is not accurate.

The negative behavior demonstrated by the childed as outlined in the posting certainly is for the parents to take drastic actions.

Bottom line, as always, it doesn't matter what you and I think.  We are not the parents.  Parental custody was interferred with.  Those of you who support this illegal activity need to realize, every child is different.  What you would choose to do with your rebellious child is not the same as what others would do to help their's.  You don't know what the family has gone through, as you have not been there.  Neither have I, which is why it would be out of line for me to condemn the parents for their choices where their rebellious child are concerned.

Not a one of you would appreciate a stranger giving your rebellious teenager encouragement to continue being rebellious towards you.  Why do you persist in encouraging this child to continue in her rebelliousness?

You are upset that I pray she has not peace as long as she disobeys the Lord, yet your actions encourage her to continue down the path that leads away from heaven.  You are the ones that are hurting her.  

As far as the commentary on trying to determine who is writing what, that would really be an unethical breach of trust.  But then again, it would be unrealistic to think that someone who would support a child's rebellious behavior to have any ethics to start with.

Don't worry.  The pearls will not be cast before the swine anymore.  It is evident that you have no spiritual discernment and as such, cannot comprehend anything that has been said.

[Anonymous]

Dear God, please save me from your followers!

[Nihilanthic]

Jesus Christ, what cult were you raised in?

You're yet another twit who thinks no parents could ever do wrong, and its only a case of a defiant kid.

Reality check, the beliefs that were beaten into you, literally or not, don't always hold true. Parents can and do fuck up. Just because they fucked and her mom shoved her out of her cunt doesn't mean they're good, and that their offspring has no will of her own.

Go get acclimated with reality before you post this bullshit to us. Parents can't just do anything they want to their kids because of whatever biblical prescident you believe in.

Well, that is unless you think all parents are perfect and no child has their own will. In which case why don't you go shoot yourself and see if your beliefs are true and ask god personally what god thinks.

Ask him about a friend of mine who was raped by her stepfather and her mom simply refuses to do anything to help her or protect her from him, despite his past record of abusing children. Is she defiant if she is mad at her mom for not doing her job? I bet your only respone is the girl is lying or, even more amazing, she should just do what her mom says even if that new husband of her raped her and still tries to molest her from time to time.

Until god tells me something, shut up. Don't bother posting a reply about how all these words in your bible prove this or that, I'm sick of hearing bullshit....

and so is Amanda.

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.

--Mark Twain

[Antigen]

On 2004-11-20 23:39:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

As far as the commentary on trying to determine who is writing what, that would really be an unethical breach of trust.

No, not at all. I'm not trying to guess who you are or who the other anon is. I'm simply sharing w/ the rest of the conversants here that neither of you are posting from the same place where this kid and her (complex) family live. You both imply or state outright that you know them all oh so well and I'm questioning that. You're the ones being dishonest and unethical.

I'm guessing that neither one of you actually knows these people at all and that your only connection to them is AAA. Am I right? I am only guessing, after all. Can you explain to me how you know these people so well?

And, btw, I think you're missing some of the purpose of this forum. Paige started these threads for the explicitly stated purpose of gathering information to help her rescue a young woman who was being illegally held against her will. And it worked.

Another purpose of this forum is to allow you fundie freaks to show your asses to the whole world. You see, no one believes us when we try to explain it to them. They just have to see it for themselves. So thanks for your participation. You have no idea how helpful you have been.
 :wave:

Life is like a shit sandwich; the more bread you got, the less shit you gotta eat.
--Anonymous

[BuzzKill]

Ginger writes:
Another purpose of this forum is to allow you fundie freaks to show your asses to the whole world. You see, no one believes us when we try to explain it to them. They just have to see it for themselves. So thanks for your participation. You have no idea how helpful you have been.

You realize this coin flips, don't you?

I just want to comment on the state thing you've brought up. Living in a different state in know way indicates a lack of personal knowledge. This is a mobile nation. I'm in Kentucky, as you know, but I have friends and family all over the US of A and I know them and their circumstances very well. This is not at all unusual.


Never attempt to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
--Unanimous
This is good advice.
Jesus said something very like this once.
Maybe we'd best all take heed, and quite arguing.

Amanda like so many of these kids may well be in a state of rebellion. It's so normal. If so, God will work on her heart and she will return home. This too, is normal. There is no reason to think Amanda won't be just fine; and every reason to believe there will be bumps along the way. There always are.
Note: I am not speaking of home, as in mom and dad's house. That may never happen, and this too, is normal. Typically, after some adjustments in attitude on all parties parts the relationships within the family improve greatly. Give it some time.
By all means, those so inclined, Keep praying! But you needent tell all of Fornits about it.

[Anonymous]

I'm a parent.  My kid's not a teen yet, but I sure as anything know I'm *not* perfect, and sometimes when my daughter's mad at me it's because I've been an ass.  I generally try to apologize and start behaving myself again.

My parents are good people who loved me dearly growing up, but they didn't do very well by me in some ways.  It wasn't their fault---even the doctors and experts knew so little about early onset bipolar disorder (such as the fact that bipolar *could* show up as young as age five).  My parents did the best they could.

It wasn't good enough to save me from a childhood hell, and yeah, I rebelled in my teens because I resented them not being able to protect me.  And because by the time I hit my teens I could start to see that my parents weren't all that well connected with reality either.

Teenage rebellion is a normal and natural process of recognizing your parents have feet of clay and you could and can make better decisions about your life for yourself.

Adult reconciliation with parents is a normal and natural process where you realize which of your decisions in your teenage hubris were wrong, and which ones were right, and you can give your parents credit for where they were right and tried to tell you so without having to place yourself back under their wing and suffer where their decisions for you really would have been or were worse than the ones you'd make for yourself.

My problem with the people who are so quick to chasten Amanda is not that oh, about half, of her life decisions are worse than they could be at this point.  My problem with the people who are chastening Amanda is that they don't appear to recognize the dividing point between childhood and adulthood is that *some* of the budding adult's decisions for herself are *better* than those the parents would make---and where her decisions are worse than those her parents would make, she has to learn from experience.

You're not wrong that *some* of her decisions will be worse than those of her parents.

You're wrong in not recognizing that sometimes when young adults and their parents conflict, the young adult is *right*---and it's not easy to tell which is who is what.

The bible says *children* should obey their parents.

Yeah, well this is the same tribal group that held bat mitsvahs at 13.  By biblical standards, Amanda is not a child, she's an adult.

Honoring your parents is not the same thing as obeying them.  I have not seen Amanda come on here and cuss out or bitch about her parents.  As upset as she has to be about them, that's got to take a certain amount of willpower---and that public restraint of the impulse to disrespect *is* part of honoring her parents.

The bible also says, "Fathers, provoke not thy children to wrath."

What I see here is a young woman who has had the wisdom to move in with and be advised by an older woman, who is trying to study, stay in touch with her spirituality, and live her life as a good woman.

If her parents feel dishonored by Amanda's behavior at this point, it's all in their own heads.

If you want to argue secular law says she's a child, take the matter up in the courts.

If you want to argue biblical law, she's not a child, she's a young woman, and one who is apparently going to school and church and is living, apparently harmoniously and respectfully, in the home of her brother's adoptive mother.

You have no hard evidence that this young woman is currently engaging in immoral behavior.  In the absence of that hard evidence, asking the old question WWJD---Jesus wouldn't approve of you slandering this young woman.

Timoclea

[Antigen]

On 2004-11-21 09:08:00, BuzzKill wrote:

Amanda like so many of these kids may well be in a state of rebellion. It's so normal. If so, God will work on her heart and she will return home. This too, is normal. There is no reason to think Amanda won't be just fine; and every reason to believe there will be bumps along the way. There always are.

Ya' know? It's thinking like that that led to the War of 1812. Sometimes, rebellion is well justified.

And I have to tell you that I'm a whole lot more concerned for the safety and wellbeing of that little sister that the anon poster mentioned. Maybe she's not crying because she wants Amanda to come back 'home' but because she wishes she could join her. Ever consider that angle?

The introduction of a Creator has done our independence no good.
--Gore Vidal, author

[Viva]

"Spots"... I will be praying for your survivor and i will be praying for you.Thank your for your suportive words.bless yous guys.


   Furthermore .. no one will "brian wash " me! i know better.Im not saying i know what is right and wrong all the time BUT hey, if any one does that is somthing extremly amazing!If so...
let me in on the secreat ,you fanatics that think you know all of Gods commands and teachings and think u r the right one all the time . . .

Not trying to sound like a Smart Butt however, i am just speaking my opinion!

Anonymous.... Show your self or r u scared.How is it that u "know" so much about me? You have been lied to as well about "mrs.C", you have no idea.

Any way .... im fine and im not being fooled! i have been home for 4 months and they havent done crap.. so i dont think they care too much..

they have spoken to a lawer. they want to have an "adult relationship " with me. hmm ? what that means we havent an idea. They are not too concerned about me.Or they would persue the "adult relationship". They just want me amancipated and my S.S. money they are still collecting it. Even though i am not living with them. that is SO SO right of them .. isnt it ... U know cause they are "christians " and that is okay to do cause they are christians? hmm i guess so cause that is what u guys are telling people on thins forum ..we are right and you are wrong .... dont know it just sounds wrong .

but that is the kind of world we live in hu ?
oh well!

Thank you all for the nice and helpfull words !
Viva ,
Amanda

[Anonymous]

Dearest "Viva"  

If you have been home for four months, why haven't you contacted them?  You are the one who ran, not them.  They have remained constant.  They love you so much, you will never know until you have a rebellious teenager of your own.  Did you ever stop to think that maybe they love you so much, they are willing to stay out of your life, as that is what you have shown you want?  This has been your choice, not theirs.  But, enough of them and of you, what about your younger sister and how much you have hurt her.  Have you tried to contact her and tell her you love her?  You are the one who did a posting asking for information on becoming emancipated.  That was your idea.  (It isn't rocket science to follow the posts).  They didn't shove you out the door and tell you to get lost.  You ran.  More than once.  They sacraficed to try to get you help.  You show your appreciation by bad mouthing them in a public forum.  How ungrateful.  You truly need help.  The advisary has a strong hold on you.  He is the one who has brainwashed you.  He has brainwashed you into believing that what you are doing is ok.  It is not.  Stop deflecting your dishonorable actions.  Those who you seek to gain approval from on this forum don't know the Lord.  You do.  You know, deep down, that what you are doing is wrong.  You can bad mouth your parents all you want, Viva, but the bottom line is you do know right from wrong.  Those who give you support on this forum are deceived, you are not.  You know the truth.  You know, as well as I do, that God will hold you accountable for your actions.  When it is your turn before God to give an accounting for your choices, you will not be able to deceive and manipulate Him as you have done with all the others.  He knows your heart.  You can lie to the "adult" you are living with, you can deceive those who give you support; but you can't deceive and lie to God.  He knows the truth.  And so do you.  Who am I?  Just another person who has read the postings, however, I have not been deceived.  It isn't rocket science to be able to discern the truth.  I pray that the Lord bless you according to your submission to His word.  I would not be doing you any favors if I jumped on the band wagon and told you that you are doing the right thing and that I support your behavior.  That would make me a party to your rebellion. There is nothing honorable about how you are choosing to live your life.  You can justify all you want.  Bottom line, "Honor your Father and Mother."  Period.

[Anonymous]

Uh-huh.  So you admit you know nothing about Amanda or her situation but you feel free to judge her.

Personally, I don't know her either, I'm just giving her the benefit of the doubt because the grown woman she's living with says she's behaving well.

If you can't see the difference between presuming someone you don't know well is a good person, versus presuming someone you don't know well is a bad person, then I truly pity you.

I'm not making judgements about Amanda's parents, beyond that I question sending a child to an RTC outside of the US when even the US State Department has put out an advisory heavily implying it's a bad idea.

Amanda doesn't seem to bear any malice towards her parents.  Just like any normal teenager, she's starting to recognize that they don't do everything right.  In due course of time, like every other normal person growing out of adolescence, she'll start to recognize how much they didn't do wrong and how much that, even though they may have gotten it wrong, they were doing the best they could.

The Bible is very clear that Jesus judges people by what's in their hearts.  I respectfully submit that you have no idea what is in Amanda's heart and that you obviously aren't a good choice for religious advice, because you don't heed the biblical admonition to judge not that ye be not judged.

Sure, you can talk about reproving, rebuking and exhorting all you want---but you have never preached at Amanda's church to know the local situation like Paul did for the people *he* rebuked by letter, and you don't know Amanda or go to her local church.  You're judging on a very limited amount of "information" largely made up of gossip and hearsay.

For *you* (and for me), Amanda's situation falls under the heading of "judge not that ye be not judged."

Reproving, rebuking, and exhorting, where it's needed, is the business of her de facto guardian, Paige, and the pastor at her local church, and the other members at her local church.

They know her, you and I don't.

She's a young woman, and prey to the natural flaws and faults of her age, and is doing well by putting herself in a spiritual environment that will provide the support and constructive criticism she may need along the way.

*You*, on the other hand, are presumably a fully grown man or fully grown woman and old enough to know better than to judge people you don't even know when you know full well they have a local church and a local pastor to support them with the guidance they need.

Take the log out of your own eye before you seek to clear the mote out of your neighbor's eye, sir.

Timoclea