Author Topic: Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.  (Read 20231 times)

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Offline MightyAardvark

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #105 on: February 02, 2007, 03:54:35 PM »
This is grotesque.
CCm Girl you're quoting from the straight playbook. I mean some of the stuff you've said is absolutely verbatim. You've also totally failed to present any sort of counter argument to Anne Bonney who has done a pretty superb job of ripping up the teen torture industry.
As for most of the rest of you, including the regulars from the anon army you've contributed what equates to a great big internet dumo in the middle of an important debate and give CCM girl a smokescreen to hide behind. You give her something to respond to and pretend she is actually participating in the debate.

Besides which the pointless attacks and ad hominem jibes just cheapen the whole thing. No one who reads this is gonna change their minds about the teen torture trade. We failed. Miserably
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
see the children with their boredom and their vacant stares. God help us all if we\'re to blame for their unanswered prayers,

Billy Joel.

Offline Anonymous

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #106 on: February 02, 2007, 04:04:43 PM »
So, Kevin August is going to "re-compile ASART's Guidelines" into some new list,?   THEN, Kev Boy will  tailor some percentage of ASART's guidelines into what he thinks will be an acceptable program profile so he can then approve.....and then refer children to this program?

Guess 21 year old Kev Boy believes he knows more than ASTART professionals?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline teachback

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #107 on: February 02, 2007, 07:17:46 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
CCM is you want to play therapist go get a 4 year psychology degree. Then get your masters. Then internet for a few years with troubled teens at various psychiatric facilities. Then go get your doctorate in psyhchology and then you MIGHT be qualified to diagnosis and treat kids and give their parents advice.

Until you are qualified, what you are doing is both unethical and quite possibly illegal.

I thought her advice to someone to handcuff their hands behind their back was pretty good..  :rofl:
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Offline hanzomon4

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #108 on: February 02, 2007, 08:31:59 PM »
Quote from: ""MightyAardvark""
This is grotesque.
CCm Girl you're quoting from the straight playbook. I mean some of the stuff you've said is absolutely verbatim. You've also totally failed to present any sort of counter argument to Anne Bonney who has done a pretty superb job of ripping up the teen torture industry.
As for most of the rest of you, including the regulars from the anon army you've contributed what equates to a great big internet dumo in the middle of an important debate and give CCM girl a smokescreen to hide behind. You give her something to respond to and pretend she is actually participating in the debate.

Besides which the pointless attacks and ad hominem jibes just cheapen the whole thing. No one who reads this is gonna change their minds about the teen torture trade. We failed. Miserably


True
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline teachback

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #109 on: February 02, 2007, 08:35:52 PM »
What is true?

Things went just fine with all of that!  :em:

Seriously, if the thread isn't purely dry and factual it's "a failure"?  :roll:
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #110 on: February 02, 2007, 10:41:30 PM »
Still nothing, huh?  I wonder how her buddy Kevin feels about these studies?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anonymous

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #111 on: February 03, 2007, 02:03:07 AM »
TSW: Instead of your typical drunken rantings, do you think you could help kids more by referring them to programs not located on this website?

Since you have a college degree and several years experience in this field you would be perfect as an educational consultant.
I hope you give it some thought.

A parent.
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Offline Oz girl

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #112 on: February 03, 2007, 03:01:05 AM »
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
I just wanted to be in the middle somewhere here. I think that there are times when teens need to get help. I believe  that there are safe places that make a possitive difference in kids lives. I don't believe that all TBS's, are all bad, evil, or abusive. But, no!!!!!!! I had to be 100% on board with you guys saying that any kind of treatment especially when forced on teenagers is wrong, and cruel!


you know i could not agree more that some kids do need help. i am willing to concede that all places *may* not be abusive in their approach. But what I do challenge is the philosophy of taking a kid who needs help out of the community. Sometimes normal boarding school is recommended over TBS but even then i would say that if a kid is troubled this route misses the point because while their content and secure counterpart might do well away from the family an insecure and troubled child is likely to feel that they were too much of a burden on loved ones.

The UK health dept recently published the claim that its suicide rate is the lowest since it began to collect the data. So i had a look at what UK NGOs and govt depts are doing to treat suicide and depression. I have posted some links below. One thing i noticed was that institutionalisation was not pushed at all. The other thing which was emhphasised was that academic failure was not the end of the world.
one sight which admittedly was geared toward the parents of uni students pointed out that if the depression was linked to academic pressure it was important to remind the kid that a year off or even leaving study indefinitely could be an option. it reminded me of exhausted's happy burger flipper comment.
What if the prevalent attitude toward the problems of adolescents was either that
A) some kids are absolute nightmares. Their parents need support within the community so that years later when the kid is past it, their awfulness becomes a family joke
B) Bonafide mental illness needs to be seen as a community issue and that even when on the right track in terms of being able to function, there are some people who have unique personalities and will never necessarily fit into the box. Where would xmas lunch be without Wacky aunt Zelda who fashions jewellery out of beer cans for a living?
c)While a childs sexual promiscuity, terrible choice of boyfriend and substance use are a worry to parents, the costs of locking a young person away to prevent them from doing this are higher than the benefits of keeping them from doing this.
d) in the unfortunate event of a substance addiction or eating disorder which is bad enough to require hospitalisation or an institution family need to visit regularly. Friends (who are not likely to smuggle drugs in) need to be allowed contact. The kid needs to not be cut off from their world.
i appreciate that this sounds overly idealistic but the only way ideas gain mainstream acceptance is if they are put out ofr examination.

http://www.cre8ive.com.au/cms/content/j ... ril_05.pdf

http://www.dh.gov.uk/PublicationsAndSta ... chk=CQnM7N

http://www.papyrus-uk.org/for-parents.html

http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/Tr ... olling.htm
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #113 on: February 03, 2007, 03:11:47 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
TSW: Instead of your typical drunken rantings, do you think you could help kids more by referring them to programs not located on this website?

Since you have a college degree and several years experience in this field you would be perfect as an educational consultant.
I hope you give it some thought.

A parent.


I'll  take a stab at this one. I am going to guess TSW would probably rather pour battery acid down his pants than be an ed con.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #114 on: February 03, 2007, 04:14:10 AM »
CCM, two things.

1. http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_ground

2. You do not help a child by making them live in terror, anxiety, humiliation and physical punishment. You yourself should know that all too well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline MightyAardvark

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #115 on: February 03, 2007, 05:40:41 AM »
CCMGirl.

The reason you are getting such a harsh reception here, besides the proclivities of the anonymous army is that you appear to have totally disregarded the massive body of information on these very forums that says in short TBS/BMS/Boot camps/LGAT's are a really really bad idea. The state of the science is such that the very best experts in the fields of psychology, education, justice and criminology and sociology have all rolled up and said "This is a really really bad idea"

What's more even if it was a good idea, even if it worked (which is categorically doesnt) this kind of incarceration without due process, the process of thought reform and the very moral fabric of the profession is totally contrary to the tradition of individualism and liberty that America exists to protect and foster. Are you saying that only adults deserve these things because I'll tell you the Supreme court of the united States disagrees with you and I quote..

"constitutional rights do not mature and come into being magically only when one attains the state-defined age of majority" SCOTUS in Missouri Vs Danforth 1976
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
see the children with their boredom and their vacant stares. God help us all if we\'re to blame for their unanswered prayers,

Billy Joel.

Offline Anonymous

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #116 on: February 03, 2007, 08:08:03 AM »
I am superior to you in all ways.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #117 on: February 03, 2007, 08:12:12 AM »
Quote from: ""MightyAardvark""
CCMGirl.

The reason you are getting such a harsh reception here


Is because you are not a natural blonde.
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Offline AtomicAnt

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #118 on: February 03, 2007, 09:34:29 AM »
Quote
i appreciate that this sounds overly idealistic


You are not overly idealistic, your ideas are rational and compassionate.

The tough-love advocates are overly idealistic. They believe so strongly in what they do that they are able to disregard individual rights and force others to accept their view. That's overly idealistic.

Arranged kidnappings and incarceration without due process is wrong regardless of the age of the victim. They refuse to see that.
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Offline teachback

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Why Fornits is Superior in all ways to Antiwwasp.
« Reply #119 on: February 03, 2007, 09:40:07 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
TSW: Instead of your typical drunken rantings, do you think you could help kids more by referring them to programs not located on this website?

Since you have a college degree and several years experience in this field you would be perfect as an educational consultant.
I hope you give it some thought.

A parent.

Where is that troll-o-meter?  ::troll::  ::troll::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »