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Messages - Carmel

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31
Open Free for All / Re: The gangsta movement
« on: March 07, 2009, 08:48:03 AM »
Thanks Femanon......very well said...you can certainly speak for me.

Survivor doesnt equal psychological professional.....unless we decide to undertake the process educated and ethically, we have no business referring.  Nor does anyone else for that matter. ( Nor should programs use graduates, siblings and parents as "therapists" in treatment, would your local emergency room ask you to remove your mothers appendix just because you'd had your own taken out?)

But it doesnt take a psychiatrist to discern that what we went through, ie this program modality....is abusive and ineffective.  That we can speak about and warn against.  Its pretty much accepted that a punch in the face is abuse and not valid therapy for drug treatment.

Also, I think its important to remember that there is a difference between therapy that is voluntary or at least semi-voluntary without threat of physical or mental repercussions, and therapy that is coerced and involuntary.  We tend to cover the latter because its what we went through.

The whole opinion that we dont think any therapy is useful or that kids should just be let lose to get high and fuck off....thats not a fair assumption at all.  And completely contradictory to what we discuss here.  I have two kids and when they become teenagers I am not just going to let them start a Hydro farm in the garage because i have an axe to grind with treatment.  I think most of the anti program people here try to make an effort to be realistic and fair.....if someone cant see that, they arent really looking for any objective answer.

32
Open Free for All / Re: The gangsta movement
« on: March 06, 2009, 01:01:51 PM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "try another castle"
Real gangbangers are kids of previous gangbangers

Can't wait for somebody to claim that behavior is a "disease" since it's obviously genetic.  lols.

They have.

its called Borderline Personality Disorder

or Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

Quote from: "psy"
Gang Bangers Anonymous

Honestly I'd rather join a gang than a cult.

Yeah, that whole Oppositional Defiant Disorder crap makes me want to shit my pants and feed it to the nearest Psychologist.

Its almost funny....like I am hoping that someone will stand up and say, "Oh yeah! It was all a bad joke that stuf about calling teen defiance a disorder!" oops!  Like I just cant believe that someone could use that term with a straight face.

 ::fullofshit::

33
Open Free for All / Re: The gangsta movement
« on: March 06, 2009, 01:01:03 PM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "try another castle"
Real gangbangers are kids of previous gangbangers

Can't wait for somebody to claim that behavior is a "disease" since it's obviously genetic.  lols.

They have.

its called Borderline Personality Disorder

or Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

Quote from: "psy"
Gang Bangers Anonymous

Honestly I'd rather join a gang than a cult.

Yeah, that whole Oppositional Defiant Disorder crap makes me want to shit my pants and feed it to the nearest Psychologist.

Its almost funny....like I am hoping that someone will stand up and say, "Oh yeah! It was all a bad joke that stuf about calling teen defiance a disorder!" oops!  Like I just cant believe that someone could use that term with a straight face.

 ::fullofshit::

34
Open Free for All / Re: Frank Zappa was God - AIDS was cooked?
« on: March 05, 2009, 01:36:25 PM »
http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/ ... ents/AIDS/

oops!

35
Open Free for All / Re: Frank Zappa was God - AIDS was cooked?
« on: March 05, 2009, 01:34:48 PM »
There is a super interesting documentary out there...cant recall the name at this moment but its been aired on the Discovery Channel et al lately.....it was put together by a lady, whos name escapes me now as well...Ill do some reseacrh and find it.

ANYHOW....its about how back in the day (50 years or more ago, cant remember that either) there was a group of scientists who went to Uganda I believe or the Congo and were setting up labs and stations to produce polio vaccine for some 1 million-odd children there in Africa.  I believe ultimately they did innoculate thereabouts that many.  The thing was is that they used harvested organ tissues from chimps in order to grow the cultures for the vaccines....and there is strong evidence that this is where the cross-over may have initially occured.

Thats a real rough description of it, they go into great depth and present alot of evidence and testimony.  The interesting thing is that there seemed to have been an effort at some point much later to wipe out any record of the initiative.  By who and for what reason is not fully known but its a great theory.  The present it in a very non-reactionary tone....its a good piece of work.

Ill find out what the hell its called and post it.

http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/ ... DS/....its called the "Origin of AIDS"...there is a synopsis at the link.

36
Open Free for All / Re: Alcoholism & Drug Addiction are Diseases
« on: March 05, 2009, 11:46:34 AM »
Quote from: "S A T A N"
Quote from: "Guest"
'PTSD' may have resulted from what ‘people did to you,’ but its effects linger long after their doing stuff finishes. So, shouldn’t you be hunting down people who commit suicide 10 years after their abduction and torture and telling their families what losers they were? Shouldn’t you hunt down the kids who turn to drugs to medicate their emotions or BECOME drug addicts after they were brainwashed into thinking of themselves that way and maybe tell them what failures they are? I mean, so many people you could be hurting..you better get going. I mean PTSD DD makes people hurt themselves--so therefore you have no compassion for survivors

As I said.  I have no condemnation for people who use drugs to cope with problems or even diseases (induced or otherwise).  I actually encourage it if it works.  Lots of survivors find that pot, for example, helps deal with the symptoms of PTSD.  It's "self medication" and frowned on by the 12 stepping proselytizers, but it's really none of their fucking business if it works.  Heal they self.

All I have a problem with and no compassion for is when people claim they have some fictional disease and can't control themselves.  They use it as an excuse to, like Zappa said, act like assholes.  If you break in to my house.  I don't give a fuck whether you're doing it for drugs or something else you have a desire (not need) for. You get two in the brain pan.  Problem solved.  Disease didn't cause it.  As Psy implied, "fucking stupid" caused it.

Quote
AA and addiction are one not in the same.
The AMA classified addiction as disease more than 60 years ago, and investigation and measurement of this pathology has been conducted by scientists and classified as a disease by scientists, not random AA attendees. You are extraordinarily ignorant.

And homosexuality was once a disease.  Authorites are not infallible and they should be challenged when they make mistakes.  It should be noted that even if the AMA recognizes addicition as a disease (after they interviewed AA MEMBERS (the only population they could find)), the APA does not.  "Addition" is not in the DSM, and the closest thing in that book bears very little resemblance to what AA defines "disease" as.

Quote
And AA and the addiction are not in the same. You are very ignorant or very stupid

And you have a problem with reading comprehension.  I said AA and the disease concept are the same.  Addiction exists, yes, but it is not a disease, much one that is always progressive or fatal or bla bla bla.  That's AA spiritual horse shit.

The AMA and western medical philosophy in general should ALWAYS be questioned about MANY MANY things.

37
Open Free for All / Re: Alcoholism & Drug Addiction are Diseases
« on: March 05, 2009, 11:34:54 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Carmel"
It doesnt really make sense to me that AA agrees with the idea of Alcoholism being a genetic disease....hence a physiological impairment (simplification)....and yet they only offer a mental rehabilitation process to reverse the effects of this "disease".  

It seems like the equivalent of someone walking up to a guy on the ground with a compound fracture in his leg and hurling health care insurance pamphlets at it to try and get it to re-set.  Its not only ludicrous it cancels their ideology out altogether in my opinion.

I know there are all sort of factors that run the entire length of the argument....but I see it as pretty basic.  I teach Anatomy and Physiology on an intermediate level so that my students can get a working knowledge of how things conduct physically....they in turn apply learned techniques that directly address the physiological issue in one way or another (again a simplification here) but you'll never see one of them sitting down trying to convince a person that if they just re-organize their thinking their chronic pain will stop.

Just to touch on the genetic issue....I agree that a genetic pre-disposition does not constitute a malfunction or impairment of some sort.  I think here is where society comes in alot....for example being born with brown eyes instead of blue eyes isnt a problem at all......but if you want to join a club that only admits people with blue eyes, then does your genetic make-up become sub standard and your condition labeled a disease?
just curious, are you a college professor or hs teacher?

Neither one....I teach Massage Therapy for state licensure.  We teach about 325 hours of A&P, Kinesiology (which is like more A&P) and Clinical Pathology, I'd call it equivalent to your beginning college courses, however its structured a little differently to compliment our application.

38
Open Free for All / Re: The gangsta movement
« on: March 05, 2009, 11:11:03 AM »
I think its all perception....20 year ago parents were putting their kids away for wearing black and listening to Ozzy Osbourne.   Now they use "Crazy Train" to put an edge on the 4 door Toyota Corolla commercial.

39
Open Free for All / Re: Alcoholism & Drug Addiction are Diseases
« on: March 05, 2009, 10:54:39 AM »
It doesnt really make sense to me that AA agrees with the idea of Alcoholism being a genetic disease....hence a physiological impairment (simplification)....and yet they only offer a mental rehabilitation process to reverse the effects of this "disease".  

It seems like the equivalent of someone walking up to a guy on the ground with a compound fracture in his leg and hurling health care insurance pamphlets at it to try and get it to re-set.  Its not only ludicrous it cancels their ideology out altogether in my opinion.

I know there are all sort of factors that run the entire length of the argument....but I see it as pretty basic.  I teach Anatomy and Physiology on an intermediate level so that my students can get a working knowledge of how things conduct physically....they in turn apply learned techniques that directly address the physiological issue in one way or another (again a simplification here) but you'll never see one of them sitting down trying to convince a person that if they just re-organize their thinking their chronic pain will stop.

Just to touch on the genetic issue....I agree that a genetic pre-disposition does not constitute a malfunction or impairment of some sort.  I think here is where society comes in alot....for example being born with brown eyes instead of blue eyes isnt a problem at all......but if you want to join a club that only admits people with blue eyes, then does your genetic make-up become sub standard and your condition labeled a disease?

40
Open Free for All / Re: AA is a Cult
« on: March 02, 2009, 11:00:06 AM »
Its my opinion is that any school of thought that teaches any level of disregard of, or forbids the questioning of its own principals against alternate thoughts or beliefs is, or has the ripe potential to be, a cult.

Including Christianity, AA, etc.

The idea that there is only one truth in a world so diverse is cripplingly narrow.

41
Open Free for All / Re: Psy spends all his time pretending he is in france
« on: February 25, 2009, 10:49:03 AM »
I spend all my time pretending Im in Micronesia.

 :cheers:

42
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: Wes Fager
« on: February 16, 2009, 06:06:38 PM »
When I first started looking for people from Straight...next to Fornit's, Wes's site was just about the only thing out there that had any information about what we experienced.  I remember spending hours and hours reading through A Clockwork Straight...I bet there are lots of us who remember doing that.

I sent Wes a note and asked him if he would let me send him my story....he said of course.  I never sent it to him, but I think just being able to ask, and have someone hear me and say yes......was the beginning of healing for me.

Thank you for saying Yes, Mr. Fager.

43
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: Christopher Columbus of Cults
« on: February 10, 2009, 02:10:31 PM »
"Synanon Church, Straight's progenitor, had its own cult doctors (and attorneys). It was these doctors who performed the mass sterilizations on all the male Synanites. But if a Synanite kid had to go to a specialist off-site, the child was taken by a parent other than his own. Straight is a cult which places emphasis on recruiting parents with special backgrounds especially medical doctors, dentist, nurses, and attorneys. The child must be controlled at all times as to what he could tell an outsider. If a child gets sick then he is sent to a program doctor (preferably one has had one of his own kids in the cult so that he has been conditioned never to believe anything a "druggie" says bad about Straight.) Or the child is sent to a doctor accompanied by an adult program official or a parent other than his own, and escorted by a same-sex old comer who actually follows the sick child into the doctor's examining room telling the doctor the child is a "druggie", subject to violence, and she is there to protect the doctor should the client "act out". This logic closed down Straight-Southern California. When a big burly doctor was told this about a quite, little girl he told the old comer to take a hike. This big man just sort of felt he could protect himself from being beaten up by a little girl! Alone with an outsider for the first time the little girl told a chilling story of horror including having a sock crammed down her throat to silence her screams."

Leigh Bright's testimony against Straight/Newton.....she took them to trial and won.  This is regarded as truth by the courts and the law.  I was present when Straight California was closed down and the clients transfered to our program in Dallas.  I sustained potentially damaging head injuries not long after that and was not allowed medical treatment.  

I dont care how much of a druggie or delinquent a kid may be THIS is wrong....and THIS is the thinking that you are defending.  There was little else in group that occured other than abuse, degredation and humiliation.....if AARC changed all these things in their program, its highly unlikely they anything left whatsoever in order to "treat" the kids with.

44
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: Christopher Columbus of Cults
« on: February 10, 2009, 01:25:18 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
The original topic of this thread was the lie that the Wizard had created the AARC model.  Untrue, he stole it from Miller Newton.  That's why the phases, the total isolation of Newcomers, the host homes, the Peer Counselors, the raps, the Synanon style group hate sessions, the confessions and praying, are all identical to Kids.  But then AARC was originally called Kids.  
But as I stated earlier, feel free to embrace Dr. McMahon's love for AARC.  I on the other hand am still waiting for an analysis from a doctor who is not an AARC parent, not an AARC board member, and not a consultant to private addiction treatment centres.
I can't help but lump Dr. McMahon in with the other physician parents who put their offspring in Kids, since they chose to forsake legitimate medical treatment and place their children in a cult run by a complete amateur posing as a mental health expert.  You know, that phys ed teacher who worked at Kids and then claimed to have invented a method to rehabillitate drug addicts.  
Too bad you did the same thing with your kid.

Its always the same thing....AJAX is right, the fundamental truth about the methodology is faulty, I dont care who created it, or who advocates it....its a faulty system, period.  Whoever this person is who keeps beating the "medical professional vs juvenile delinquent" thing is just beating a completely useless point.  One instance of adverse perspectives is just moot...moot moot MOOT.

DO your research, the FACTS about this method and these programs are there, validated by numerous courts of law...theres your damn professionals.

Parents and advocates of these programs were 100% a part of the brainwashing cultic process of the facilities, they ARE NOT qualified to make judgements on the effectiveness of the programs...not only that but even when they try they cant produce one that comes even close to matching the vast, overwhelming stack of adverse. documented facts about this method.

The fact that AARC is a direct offshoot of a cultic fraudulent treatment modality is irrefutable, period.  All of this we took the bad and made it good is very simply impossible......just impossible.  Anyone whos been through it would know that, Honey.

45
Open Free for All / Re: Ethics of Infertility and Engineered Multiples
« on: February 05, 2009, 10:37:55 AM »
You know thats so right on....I have seen so many people, girls especially that treat their animals like children, even structuring their lives around doggie play groups and vet appointments and "doggie school".  

To be honest to those of us who actually have children, its offensive.  Especially when these same people announce that they are totally prepared for real children since they've "practiced" on their animal....or that before they decide to have children they are going to "practice" on a dog.

I had a client that I worked with weekly and among plentiful other mental issues, this woman felt that her two dogs were not only the most important thing in her world, but that they should be in everyone elses.  She spent every session crying and wailing about her animals and "Did I even know what it meant to have your children be so fragile?" Her babies! Her poor, poor little weak babies!....This woman was in her late 60's and never had children of her own.  Finally one day after she had yelled at me one too many times about how I could never understand about "children", I told her I knew exactly what it felt like to have your child die a horrible untimely death and what it was like to go on without them.....she promptly shut the fuck up.

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