Author Topic: Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too  (Read 36592 times)

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Offline jeffz*cc*l*

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Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2002, 12:21:00 AM »
First of all, I only know Dean Vause (prior to PhD's, AARC,etc.) from his days training in NJ under the roof of KIDS of Bergen County/KIDS of North Jersey.  My recollection of him is vague (13+ years ago).

I knew Brian Neil (he was my newcomer) and someone who I would consider to be a friend.  My reaction to hearing of his tragic death sickened me (as does hearing of anyone from treatment dying a preventable death).  

From reading all of the past 50 or so posts, it is VERY clear that there are two conflicting views & opinions.  Being human requires one to think for themselves.  To receive information, process it, analyze it and form some type of opinion.  Clearly, that opinion will be colored & influenced by one's experiences up to that point, information received and a variety of other factors.  To reiterate, the opinions on this post totally conflict.  The problem that I have is that they are BOTH very extreme and allow very little room for reasoning.

It has been my experience in working with many ex-cult members (no, I am not a professional, I am a mortgage investment banker by trade) that one of the many common threads of cults is the black & white, right & wrong, us versus them, good & bad with nothing but seperation between each extreme.

Many of the great thinkers & philosophers for the past 2500+ years have had great theories that make perfect sense about life, our existence & man's relation to it.  One of the common problems with most of them is that they lose validity, when taken to absolute extremes.

I know that KIDS was a horrific place where I was tortured for most of my 4 1/2 year incarceration there.  All that I think that I know about AARC is that its initial intention was to "take the good from KIDS" and try to replace or to change what was bad.

 :nworthy: Any person who is in a position of "ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY" is vulnerable to the intoxication of power.  Throughout history, people who may have came from different places in life, ultimately ended up in very destructive and dangerous situations, those which threatened the autonomy & wellbeing of those who follow his or her "ABSOLUTE" ways :nworthy: .

Man is imperfect.  If that is slanderous then I just opened myself up to about 2 billion international & global lawsuits. ::deal::

The imperfection of men (& women) simply prevents us from successfully being in a position of unaccountable power.  It has ultimately destroyed good leaders & the people who served them.  I have not once said that Dean Vause is in AN UNACCOUNTABLE, ABSOLUTE STATE OF POWER.

If however, a leader of such a center is not accountable to his patients whom he treats, the breeding ground for trouble is being created.

I don't know enough about the circumstances surrounding the allegations against Mr. or Dr. Vause, nor do I know anything about AARC, except that I miss all of my Canadian friends greatly (1986 - 1990).

I intimately know all of the inner working of KIDS, Newton, his absolute black & white theories and his destructive addiction to control, power & authority.  As I said earlier, it is an intoxicating state to have total power.  No human can have it because we are imperfect and if we try to hide our imperfections, they manifest themselves in other aspects of our being & our relationship with other beings.

I hope you are either very confused or very sleepy after reading my post!

Jeff Z*cc*l*
2/1986 thru 8/1990
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Offline Serpico

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Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2002, 09:06:00 AM »
We would appreciate copies of any documents you have on AARC or information or personal stories . As we are an action committee that is involved in investigating abusive drug rehabs that are straight-like.. We are currently doing a report on AARC and need information asap.

http://www.straightincorporated.com

you can email us any information you have to
surviovorcommitee@yahoo.com

Notice the one T in commitee

Thanks All
Sincerely,
Serpico
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Offline wesfager

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Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2002, 12:01:00 PM »
Who besides Dr. Lewis Andrews have you met who was on Vause's advisory board.  Did or do any of them have any connection to AARC or Kids?  How could I confirm whay you say?

Wes Fager
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es Fager
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Offline wesfager

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« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2002, 12:06:00 PM »
how can i contact aadac?  

Please send reply to wesfager@thestraights.com
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es Fager
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Offline wesfager

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« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2002, 12:19:00 PM »
You are talking about a case in England where the daughter commited suicide.  Where is this documented.

Please send answer to wesfager@thestraights.com
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es Fager
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Offline Anonymous

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Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2003, 10:27:00 AM »
Buddy, read your post over, you hold Dean Vause responsible for Brian's deathl, period. And you sound like a real screwed up person. You just do not get it -> what you were saying about, 'we help everyone that asks for help or when they are coming back' - no one person in AA is responsible for every other person everytime they come back OR ask for help. It that is what you do, then no wonder you're screwed-up. Also, as it has been done before, people who just have given up on themselves will also try to take others down with them. Did ya ever think that Brian did a real good job at setting Dean up. He knew that what he had pulled off at AARC made him particularly dangerous to the clients in there. He knew VAUSE could not take him back, so why not let everyone know that you asked the guy for help (and because HE IS THE ONLY ONE that could help him, a laugh in itself), he refused ya, and then take your life. Then screwed up people like yourself go around telling everyone that the guy who had to refuse Brian is responsible for his suicide. Suicide is not homicide?? is it?

Besides AARC is not AA and no one should have to explain the difference to you. Brian could have gone to any A.A. N.A. meeting in Calgary and, duh started helping other people or do like any other fucked up recovering people need to do - help out in any service kind of way and/or work with newcomers. Why was Brian sooooo special and why is Vause soooo responsible for Brian's addiction and recovery??? AA/NA members "carry the message" NOT the drunk. If ya want to get sucked dry keep trying to help some one that needs to FINALLY HELP THEMSELVES. If there is always some one around that will do that, then the sick guy will never get better!!!!!!!!!! Lots of people die from addiction and those are the ones that don't take responsibility to do the things that every other f****** coming into and doing recovery has to do - the work, not expect some one else to.
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Offline Paula

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« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2003, 11:56:00 AM »
First of all, where in any of these posts does it say ANYWHERE, and I quote your(anonymous individual who twists around the meanings to these posts) words, "Vause is responsible for Brian's death."  I do not see that anywhere...  If you open your eyes and TRULY read what is being written you'ld understand that, but then you would also have nothing to harass people about...  

If anything these posts say that Brian went to Dean for help, Brian went to AA and NA for help, he also went to his family for help...  No where does it say that all (or any) of these people/resources killed Brian...
 
Bye
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Offline jeffz*cc*l*

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« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2003, 12:09:00 PM »
Whether it was Brian's, Dean's, or anybody else's fault that Brian is not here, the outcome and result will never be changed.

If we have a courtroom trial and Mr. Neil is found "Guilty of taking his own life," does any judge, jury or anyone have the ability to bring him back?  If so, please let me know, because losing my mother this year has been a real struggle to deal with and man, if I can blame someone and get her back then sign me up!

On the other hand, proving whether Dean did or did not contribute to Brian's tragic suicide will also not bring him back; HOWEVER, proving that the messages given to patients in these types of "treatment centers" can be damaging to on's overall sense of self and his/her relation to world around them is another issue.

I've never been in AARC, so I am not going to allege anything that I do not know as fact and cannot establish to be factual.  Like Dean, Velvet and many other posters on this board, I don't need an International Lawsuit for some nonsensicle crap that he said - she said.

To Everyone here:  Instead of throwing mud at AARC & Dean, wouldn't it be more productive to point out publicly the specific methods of treatment that may be considered questionable, damaging or even counter productive?  Mud throwing has a really simple result!  EVERYONE IS DIRTY WHEN WE ARE DONE PLAYING!

I think it may be unreasonable to actually pin down DEAN to take ultimate responsibility for Brian's death; however, did the Kids message and the years that he was there doing hard time contribute?  You bet your ass!  May it have contributed to about 20+ suicides of my personal friends who were imprisoned there?  You better fucking believe it!  Why?  Let me explain...

When Kids (maybe AARC) did intakes for people to become patients, everything was very black & white fromthat very second.  You ARE druggie (even if you don't admit to using & abusing) from the second that you arrive there.  That label will never leave you whether it is accurate or not.  

In addition, the freedom of self is not only suppressed, but it is constantly shamed, and blamed for not only what has been done in the past, but for the incarceration in treatment.  The message of scaring someone into submission by using tactics such as sensory depravation (i.e. food regulation, sleep, no exposure to anything but a constant message) weakens the person's ability to "think for himself" and a state of hypnosis begins.  The person becomes very open to "suggestions."  Even if someone never had sex with an animal, hearing everyone around them in this controlled enviroment with no ability to try & discern for himself what is real & what is not, it would be, has been and will continue to be the perfect opportunity for that person to either think that maybe he did have sex with an animal or after people hounding him to "get honest" he may even own up to it for the simple rewards that follow.  He gets to earn talk, group accepts him, people are off his back and he may be one step closer to going home.

You CANNOT tell people that life, addiction & alcoholism are BLACK & WHITE!  Why not, Jeff?  Because of this.  The principals of AA are clear that anyone with a DESIRE TO STOP DRINKING can be a member.  If someone decides in time, that they are an alcoholic, it is only then that they will be classified as such and only by themselves.

At the same time, there are people who went into and were held in tratment for almost 5 years, so I have nothing but an 8th grade education in my juvenile years, I missed out on the life experiences that are required by ourminds, bodies and souls to mature.  Speaking about living sober for 5 years is different from being out of treatment for 2 weeks and staying sober (straight if you insist).  We can only grow fromour experiences.  Wisdom is gained through trial & error in life.  It is not acheived by preventing people from making their own errors and mistakes.  Whats worse is to tell someone that if they make a mistake, that without question, they will relapse, be miserable & die.  That begins to set the stage for devastation...

In KIDS the message to me was clearly, if you leave you may do drugs, but you will DEFINATELY kill yourself.  they went as far as to have a psychiatrist (name mentioned upon private request only) diagnose me as absolutely crazy to convince me & my parents to stay when I was signing out.  That doctor has since apologized publicly and privately for that false diagnosis and has assured me that I was okay, just reacting to my incarceration in KIDS like anyone else.

If you tell someone that if they screw up, then they are doomed to use, get high and die and you are their therapist, then you have some fucking balls!  The liability for planting that single seed in someone's head is unlimited and whether they do or do not off themselves, you as a therapist should be castrated for telling a paitient something so outlandish, untrue and damaging.

People are supposed to make mistakes and do the wrong thing.  If theyt didn't would they be human?  When Adam & Eve ate that forbidden fruit was God pissed?  Yeah!  Did he decide to end the human race, hell no!  If we cannot make mistakes then we are subject to try & live perfect.  Being human, we lack the ability to be perfect so we are doomed for failure.  If this failure is automatically given programmed consequences of "copping out, hurting myself, getting high and killing myself" then the person prescribing that thought process should absolutely be brought up on charges, murder if it applies.  The reasoning is simple:

Therapy is supposed to help people and it requires a great deal of trust on the patient's part of the therapist. "HOLD ON!!!!  HOLD THE PRESS!!! Did I say anywhere that if a patient kills themself that its the therapist's fault?  Please don't EVER let me say or insinuate that!

Patient must trust therapist.  Therapist gives patient guidance & suggestions and helps patient take a new look at their life experiences.  If the therapist uses that sacred TRUST and manipulates the patient to believe things that would be considered unreasonable or untrue and it causes the patient to kill themself, then we have another story...  HANG ON, I'm not done yet...

To tell young people that doing drugs is bad, is a good thing.  To tell people that doing drugs MAY cause their life to become unmanageable is very accurate.  To tell people that if they ever leave treatment they will not ever be STRAIGHT to real standards.  To make young people believe that AA doesn't work and that they will be doomed to fail because it is too weak.  To make them internalize the concept that without this magic rehab then I'm doomed to OD on drugs and die or kill myself (see KIDS 1st step- unmanageables...).

This is out - fucking - rageous.  It is totally false and has no basis for being true outside of a controlled enviroment.  To make people believe this false totalitarian message is homocide in my opinion and yes, I have no problem of establishing a case for EVERY single patient that took their own life out of KIDS.   It is the planting of a seed of self destruction that confuses people who leave these programs.  Ultimately they can't be in there forever, so you mean to tell me that they lack the ability to live productive and healthy lives without AARC or KIDS?  

Sorry to disappoint anyone, but that stregnth comes from within, not from outside.  While powerless over drugs, it is insane to insinuate that people are powerless over changing their lives "without the magic of rehab."  If that was so, then why have so many millions before these programs been saved from the insanity of their addictions?  It is because of the pure, untwisted and original message of AA.  Not the NEW steps.  

I think that this is a desecration of sacred AA principles.  Who the FUCK is anyone to rewrite the steps?  Who the fuck is anyone to tell kids where they will end up?  Who the fuck is anyone to say that their way is the only was and without death is near?  These are the questions that are relevant, not who gets blamed for Brian's suicide.

Jeff
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Offline Paula

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Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2003, 01:33:00 PM »
Hey Jeff, Good Point(s)!!

When someone dies, especially after leaving these treatments it becomes... almost critical to find answers, with the answers comes the peace and acceptance of death.  However, in finding those answers many people turn to their "loved one" in this case Brian, and put him on a pedestal, therefore negating his own personal responsibilities for his own life.  And in turn, everyone who didn't do what we (or society) deems as the "right" thing to have done is now blamed for their actions and the eventual death of our loved ones.  Hence Dean, AARC etc...  I guess what I am trying to say and what I think a lot of people are trying to express is this(this is just my opinion and what I am picking up on from these posts):  

- Loved one dies

- People look for answers to find peace and acceptance with there 'loss'

- They may turn inwards and place the blame on themselves -OR- they may look to place the blame elsewhere -OR- they may do both.  

- Grief and bereavment are probably the most painful and mind-fucking emotions to deal with.  

Facts are, with a suicide there are no answers (or very rarely anyway).  Brain wrote me a beautiful letter before he died and even with that I still wondered if there wasn't more that I could have done to 'save' him.  

This isn't a "fault" issue.  We lost a really great guy, and due to his upbringing and the events in his life he chose the road he did.  Not to hurt others, but to find his own peace.  I can't judge Brian for his decisions, I am not in his shoes.  But that also means we can't judge anyone else for their actions before Brian died, because we don't know HOW Brian perceived the actions of others before he died.  Thanks to technology and text books we can see that abuse can lead to people killing themselves (especially the abuse we have ALL incurred at the hands of some pretty sick and twisted individuals)but that is not ALWAYS the case.  Sometimes I look at all the people who have died either in or out of these programs and I wish for the life of me that I could have been inside their heads, just so that I knew what they were thinking when they did what they did, just so I had some answers...  somehow knowing what they were thinking might bring peace to those grieving their loss.

Take care all!

Paula          

[ This Message was edited by: Paula on 2003-01-03 15:43 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too
« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2003, 02:37:00 AM »
Antigen, antigen, antigen you are such a lost little soul.
1) Brian went through AARC was doing well then got a job in BC, went out there to work at another treatment center and got all fucked up. He was away from the evil place-AARC for months.
This is a trick question (for you) - how do you rule out confounders and place AARC and Dean Vause as the mind-fucking place and treatment professional that are the culprits in Brian's downward spiral after going to work in Nanimo??  Look up what a confounder is and maybe some theories of causation, you'll find that it is pretty hard to peg AARC or Dean with Brian's demise.

2) How the hell do you think you know Dean Vause, you have never met him, haven't even talked with him . . shit, probably wouldn't know who he was if you passed him on the street.

3) the real illustration about your limited (zero) knowledge on treatment is that you have a one dimensional perspective of the methods used and can't even grasp the simplicity in what it was all about. Most people that go through treatment and/or recovery in an 12-step program laugh about how limited and one dimensional their thinking was ('nother word for that being - stupid) before and during the process of going through those things. I guess they be laughing at you, girl cuz you still stuck there, hun.  When is your head going pop out of your ass, you ARE the one who is being led by an idiot. Use a mirror to see who that is . . .hehehehehe

 :rofl:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #55 on: April 15, 2003, 03:00:00 AM »
Jeff,
What the hell are you talking about??? You include AARC in the Kids Organization's hostage-taking methods. You don't know what the AARc program does. The steps are not re-written and participation in AA, or NA etc. is part of the deal for recovery.

AARC is NOT like Kids because Vause went down to Jersy and got the shit kicked out of him because he questioned what they were doing and miller-newton and his death squad decided they take a pice out Vause. Dean had been duped like most other politicians parents and other addiction specialists to think Kids was THE FUCKING PLACE for drug addiction treatment for kids. Dean found out the hard way just like the kids that were trapped in there that Miller-Newton WAS NOT some one to be admired, he was a sick mo-fo. Vause went down there thinking he was going to be trained by a bunch of great professionals and got completely trashed and chose to work with the kids that got away from there in the 1990s. One of those kids was Brian who killed himself, another one hates Dean for whatever reason (I think it is called having a resentment, which is the complete responsibility of the person who has it not the person, intitute or thing that the resentment is towards). Then there are a good number of those kids that are sober and living a life they were definitely not headed towards and they are grateful to Vause. You win some, you lose some. Dean's passion is to help kids, and there are far more 'kids' that are grtateful than the whiners who are still looking to blame others for the fact they just can't let go of dumping the responsibility for their life on someone else. funny thing is is that these same pinheads think THEY are the smart one . . . well if they are so smart why can't they get a life and get on with living?????
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2003, 12:44:00 PM »
Only those few people? What about the one who had to sign a legal agreement not to speak about why they are no longer a part of aarc?

If Vause hated Newton and Kids so much why did he leave the lovely scenery of Vancouver to return to Alberta to help Newton form Kids of the Canadian West? He'd already left Kids of North Jersey. If Social Services hadn't stepped in Dean would probably still be working under Newton running Kids Centers of Canada. Vause also took Newton's advice on where to attend school. It sounds to me like they were buddies.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2003, 01:49:00 AM »
I wanted to say that I agree with you on this topic.  I am a recent graduate of AARC and I know the Dr. Vause is not the person that these people are making him out to be.  Thank you for you're support

Evan
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Offline velvet20000

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« Reply #58 on: October 02, 2003, 05:25:00 PM »
There's no possible way someone could use drugs like meth or ectasy or even coke safe...Even if it's only once it still damages the body, and they're very addicting it only takes one time...I think if someone knows about the drugs they're putting in their body it won't make a difference, it didn't matter for me and I know it doesn't matter for hundreds thousands of others..
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regular around here..That\'s right cool as ever!!!!

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2003, 12:13:00 AM »
So if someone knows the risks of a drug and uses it once does that really make them an addict? Or are they  just stupid? There's nothing you can really do to recover the stupid, but if you're stupid and you are sent into "recovery" you'll be the first to give up what you weren't addicted to and begin reciting the lingo because you aren't smart enough to realize that you don't need to.
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