Poll about Alcoholics Anonymous

[Scarstruck]

Fuck you art, and your glorified cult....

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-01 07:28:00, artman11111 wrote:

"

However typical of "fornits".,you are a very disturbed individual.I feel sorry for you but you havent angered me.You have only showed everyone here how sick you really are.


Bless you

art"

I don't think that is a fair statement. Sure there is a handfull of sick and mentally ill people,and also some very angry persons who misdirect their anger.

But fornits as a whole has a lot of really good people. Ignore the trolls, animals and scarstruck, and the various spewing anons and you will find this to be so.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-01 07:28:00, artman11111 wrote:

"Fully expected a response like that,Obviously you have issues yourself.I havent used any language that is foul.Havent tried to be insulting.Only stated my position.Whether you agree or not is no matter.

However typical of "fornits".,you are a very disturbed individual.I feel sorry for you but you havent angered me.You have only showed everyone here how sick you really are.

The common denominator (as i see it) is that we were all imprisoned in treatment centers and abused.This is sad for all of us.Where we collectively choose to go is up to the individual.

I hope one day you figure out that your being a putz,only disables your ability to move on.But whatever,you can be a jerk any time you like.I dont mind laughing at you at all.

Bless you

art"

Art you're choosing to respond only to the people who are trying to bait you.  Why not ignore them and discuss the issue with those of us who are not being assholes.  There are legitimate points to be made here and you seem to ignore those and go after the shit that's easy to discredit.

[RTP2003]

On 2004-12-01 07:28:00, artman11111 wrote:

"Fully expected a response like that,Obviously you have issues yourself.I havent used any language that is foul.Havent tried to be insulting.Only stated my position.Whether you agree or not is no matter.

You WERE being insulting, Art.  I believe you made a blanket statement referring to Stepcult unbelievers as "sick".  When a few of us gave intelligent, thoughtful reasons for our opposition to the Stepcult, you fell back into Cultspeak and could or would not respond in an intelligent, thoughtful manner.  In case you haven't figured it out, many people here, myself included, not only disagree with but actively oppose the dangerous Cult with which you are so proudly affilliated.  

However typical of "fornits".,you are a very disturbed individual.I feel sorry for you but you havent angered me.You have only showed everyone here how sick you really are.

How typical of a Stepcult groupster---those of us that won't "do it the NA/AA way" are sick, disturbed individuals who haven't seen the light of the Steps.  Either that or we are "constitutionally incapable" of being "honest".  More of the psychobabble nonsense that flows from AA/NA like so much diarrhetic effluvia.  

The common denominator (as i see it) is that we were all imprisoned in treatment centers and abused.This is sad for all of us.Where we collectively choose to go is up to the individual.

Yes, and those treatment centers were part and parcel of the "recovery group" movement.  Stepcraft is Stepcraft, whether it's force-fed to you at Straight or whether it's done in the AA meeting.  These are dangerous mindfuck cults that disgust me.  The fact that you embrace these would-be tyrant nutcases disgusts me also.

I hope one day you figure out that your being a putz,only disables your ability to move on.But whatever,you can be a jerk any time you like.I dont mind laughing at you at all.

Bless you

art"

Again, Art, you label all who have resisted Stepcult indoctrination and warn others of the dangers with an insulting term.  Not once have you been able to give an intelligent response to the many points brought up in this thread about the useless (at best) or dangerous (at worst) aspects of the Stepcult, such as the fallacy of "powerlessness", the mind-control games inherent in the Sponsor/sponsee relationship, the dangerous notion of "hitting bottom", or any of the many other self-contradictory beliefs that the Stepcult demands of it's followers.  Go ahead and suck Bill W.'s dick for the rest of your "clean and sober" life, Art.  You bitch and moan about being insulted here and then you do the same to others that disagree with you.  Typical Stepcraft-practicing hypocracy.  Take your AA/NA sloganeering bullshit someplace where there is an audience for it. It sure as hell ain't here, 12 Step.

[Dr Fucktard]

Its very hard to seperate who is real,and who is really disturbed here.

Truer words were never spoken! :lol:

[Dr. Miller Newton]

I dont think this place is in my best interest.

We will tell you what is and what isn't in your best interest! :flame:

Welcome to the new, improved, all-ages Straight Incorporated V2.0! Have a seat on front row, Art.

[GregFL]

I too Art Think AA is a bunch of crap, but I defend your right to attend it voluntarily.

My problem comes from AA's infiltration into  the public sector.

Have a few beers and pulled over?  Likely you will be forced into "treatment".  Caught with a marijuana joint? Likely again to go into 12 step treatment. This is unacceptable.

Ever seen the "sucess rate" of AA, Art?  It is in line with the success rate of those that never attend treatment. In other words, it doesn't work for most people. Instead, it takes the blame off the alcohol abuser and assigns it to a non existent  disease, and then every relapse is the fault of the "disease", not the lilly livered weak individual that drinks a beer and then finishes off the case. Whos fault is this? Certainly not the beer, and certainly not a disease...it is an inherent weakness in the individual. This same weakling will likely eat all of the potatoe chips and salsa, consume all the pot in the house, and drink all the soda until his poor little tummy aches.

Alcoholics are weak people that obsessively consume alcohol and once sober think the rest of the world has their weakness and needs to join their crusade against alcohol and for AA type treatment..

More bullshit.

I have debated AA cult members in foreign countries telling me all types of AA crap that isn't true...It is a proven disease (it is not), six months after being "sober" your Cells cry out for alcohol (bullshit), and various other myths surrounding their weakness.

If you need a voluntary cult to stay off alcohol, so be it. Coming here and advocating said cult to victims of abusive AA based treatment centers is just setting yourself up for an argument.


Two more guys that think AA is bullshit.

http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do?topic=12

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-01 09:36:00, artman11111 wrote:

"Many in aa are plenty sick and have twisted the program to fit their perspective agenda's.I have seen this many times myself.I choose not to attend those meetings.For me,thats not AA.
"

I have a question then...how did you know that the people were sick, that those meetings weren't AA? Because if you were able to see that while going to AA, you must be very strong minded. This is what I mean: What about your belief that AA is not for those that need it, but for those that want it? How do you know, how can you trust yourself in knowing what is sick and what is not? How can you be sure they were sick, and how can you know you shouldn't have been less selfish in your dealings with them, rather than just running away? Now I'm not disagreeing with what you thought or your actions, but simply confused on how you were able to come to those conclusions while unable to really trust yourself or your thoughts.

[GregFL]

On 2004-11-23 09:39:00, artman11111 wrote:

I have been going to meetings approx 10 years.With various lengths of time sober(this time just under 3 years)

Damn Art, you are living proof that it DOESN'T work.

Various lengths of time sober in 10 years?Just how many times have you "relapsed" anyway?

People out of AA just call it getting drunk....

To parahprase the statistics quoted on the Penn & Teller show linked to above...It is 5% success rate with or without AA for those attempting to quit drinking.

Why go?  Do you enjoy the special language? The hanging around all those losers?  The smoke filled rooms? The 'relating' your story in front of other obsessive drunks? The time talking about how powerless you are and how you need a higher power?

B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T.

[Anonymous]

It depends on how you define "success." By AAs definition, of course, it means abstaining for life. But that is AA's definition. What about the definition of success as abusing alcohol less, becoming happier, learning from life, not being as afraid, not being as depressed. So what if you need a little escape every now and then. What are the consequences? Losing your job, or just feeling bad for a day? These details often get overlooked, but are really the heart and soul of addiction and the process it involves.

[Antigen]

Here's a magic talisman, guaranteed to work as well as XA and w/ fewer adverse side effects. Acquire this token, keep it with you always, wear it around your neck or carry it in your pocket. Any way you keep it will work, so long as you believe it will work! If you quit believing it will work, then it won't work any more. It works if you work it, just like AA.

This talisman will never exploit your private pain for personal sadistic satisfaction, never give you bad advice backed by the threat of certain death, insanity or incarceration or any other inanity. It'll just sit quietly "working" as it does to keep you sober and sane w/o asking anything in return.

Don't hate the media. Become the media

--Jello Biafra

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[mental torture made me li]

[ This Message was edited by: Pietra on 2004-12-12 02:39 ][ This Message was edited by: Pietra on 2004-12-12 02:41 ]

[animals all of us]

I thought I was the only one smelling the stench from carmel.  Excellent. You were still counting the moments, right?

[Anonymous]

OK Art, once again you are choosing to respond only to those personal attacks.  What about the other legitimate questions that others have posed to you regarding AA?  You ignore those.  Why??

[Antigen]

Now wait a minute here. I thought it was rather odd to read that Greg personally attacked someone. And, shaw nuff, if you re-read his post, he didn't. He only pointed out the obvious; that, unless you consider occasional sobriety to be successful treatment for alcoholism, Art's story demonstrates how AA actually doesn't work.

Nothing personal, Art. Facts is facts. FWIW, I personally don't think any less of you just because you tie one on once in awhile. Moreover, I think you might find that your life is much improved if, on those occasions, you could skip the death/insanity self bludgeoning trip.

A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question
about it.
--GW Büsh, Business Week, July 30, 2001