Author Topic: "SUCCESS" STORIES  (Read 14390 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2004, 08:14:00 PM »
Hidden Lake is preety gay. Never send ur kids there its horrible
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2004, 07:15:00 PM »
Just because these kids are not fixed, doesn't mean that RTC's don't work or are inherently bad. It makes me very angry to hear all of you guys say these things. I graduated from a RTC almost 2 years ago, and while I still struggle, I have continued to use the lessons that I learned in my everyday life. Going to a RTC did save my life. I know that many of you will claim that I am brainwashed or whatever, but the truth is, I am a happy person who learned how to be functional because of my RTC. The fact that former residents have relapsed is 1. NORMAL! 2. not the fault of the RTC. Granted, I can't speak for every RTC out there, but neither can all of you. and to claim that all are bad and destructive is b.s. and I hope that you all can realize that.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2004, 10:37:00 PM »
Did you get ACTUAL THERAPY, or were you just locked in, secluded, abused, and broken emotionally and mentally to be forced into obedience?

If you got ACUTAL THERAPY, great. If you were just yelled at, locked up, restrained, fed shit, shoved in bullshit seminars and kept from the world to force your obedience... sorry to hear it.

Thats not saving anyone, its just breaking children. A LOT of these places do that. The only specifics I've heard about ANY PROGRAM YET, has been from people with bad things to say. If the GOOD programs had SPECIFICS and weren't so fucking secretive like the damned skunk works or Guantanamo Bay, we'd all shut up. Go ask deborah (I think) about "sunshine".

Sorry to blow up but I'm in a bad mood, and I'm not going on OP for venting here  :grin:

It is criminal to steal a purse. It is daring to steal a fortune. It is a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases

--Schiller (1759-1805)

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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2004, 11:43:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-12-09 16:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Just because these kids are not fixed, doesn't mean that RTC's don't work or are inherently bad. It makes me very angry to hear all of you guys say these things. I graduated from a RTC almost 2 years ago, and while I still struggle, I have continued to use the lessons that I learned in my everyday life. Going to a RTC did save my life. I know that many of you will claim that I am brainwashed or whatever, but the truth is, I am a happy person who learned how to be functional because of my RTC. The fact that former residents have relapsed is 1. NORMAL! 2. not the fault of the RTC. Granted, I can't speak for every RTC out there, but neither can all of you. and to claim that all are bad and destructive is b.s. and I hope that you all can realize that."


You haven't, and *won't* hear me say that all RTC's are bad and destructive.

There are situations where residential psychiatric care is necessary and appropriate, although it is *always* difficult for everyone involved.

What you *will* hear me say is that because there are so many bad RTCs out there, and so little oversight and enforcement, it is very difficult for parents to tell the difference between a good, quality RTC that will probably help there child and will *at least* provide quality care for their child and a lousy, fraudulent RTC that lies outright to the parents and defrauds them while mistreating their children.

The solution is not to abolish residential care.

The solution is Reform, Oversight, Standards, Enforcement, and Sunshine.

In this case, "sunshine" being ready access to the child for the parents, and sufficient access for the child's other family members for them to be able to assure themselves that their relative is not being abused.  The ability of the patients to regularly send unread, uncensored mail to the outside world, and to receive mail that's only been screened for contraband would probably be adequate.  (Subject to 30 days or less of *incoming only* mail stoppage by a licensed psychiatrist if and only if he/she has personally examined and is personally treating that patient and determines it to be necessary to the mental health of that *specific* patient.)

The scandal of sub-par RTCs is not anything new to the mental health profession.  The entire history of mental health care has been one of many people doing the best they know how to do to care for patients, and some being flagrantly abusive.  Then some pshrink or pshrinks either find out better ways to treat certain problems, or patient's relatives get fed up with the abuses, and reforms are made.  Then another treatment fad comes along and the cockroaches work their way into the woodwork and it all starts over again.

Thing is, usually with each iteration mental health care has gotten substantially better for some groups of patients.

A prime example would be the general paresis patients getting antibiotics *early* in their syphilis infections and never getting mentally ill at all.

Another would be the improvement in the lives of schizophrenics, even in institutions, after the discovery of thorazine, or the improvement for bipolars after the discovery of lithium.

My great grandmother had to be chained to a tree in the yard like a dog when her manic phases made her violent.  My great aunt was in and out of mental hospitals all her life.  My daughter and I will probably have significantly better lives than our relatives from earlier generations because as times change, treatments improve.

A lot of current RTCs are either fraudulent outright, or using outdated treatment protocols that amount to abuse.

Nobody even remotely sane (or able to fake it on meds, at least :smile: ) is trying to keep seriously disturbed teenagers from getting the care they need---including residential care, when necessary.

What those of us who are rational (which is most of us) are trying to do is get the industry reformed so that patients get *quality* care, and so that parents and other family members get *honest* representations of what services their money is actually buying for their child.

I'm thrilled that you're okay---really.

Please understand that other kids who have not received the services their parents were promised, or who have received last-decade's-fad treatments that psychiatrists and clinicians now know to be ineffective or harmful, are *NOT* okay.

We don't want to make it so kids like you were aren't okay, either.

We want to reform care so that the parents are getting what they're paying for and the kids are getting treatments with good track records in peer-reviewed research, or promising new treatments, rather than treatments that the mental health experts have already established are ineffective or harmful for the kid's particular condition.

And, of course, where a treatment is experimental, the parents need to be told and give informed consent, and trials need to be structured and data collected to determine whether the treatment actually works or not.

One of the biggest reforms is that therapeutic approaches need to be tested and validated, or invalidated, just like we evaluate psychiatric drugs.

Parents, and the community, have a right to know whether the treatment works or not, and to know based on something more than testimonials and rigged customer-satisfaction surveys.

I'm not saying parents shouldn't be able to choose pastoral counseling or color therapy or aromatherapy or repetitive-thumb-rotation-zen therapy as long as there's no evidence the kids are being *harmed* by it.

I'm just saying psychiatry has developed to the point that it's time to do to residential treatment what the FDA did to patent medicines----reform it so that when consumers buy a treatment, if they're told it works, they can trust that it really does.

If the bottle on the shelf says "penicillin," the capsules in it shouldn't be full of sawdust.

If the RTC brochure says "cognitive behavioral therapy," the treatment behind the closed doors shouldn't be a dunking stool and a pool of cold water.

Reform.

Just because your folks, figuratively speaking, bought a willow-bark syrup that cured your headache doesn't mean the kid down the road didn't  have his parents buy snake oil for *his* headache.

So I'm glad you're okay.

There are an awful lot of people who aren't.

We're all trying to deal with *that*, without preventing people like yourself from getting care that works for you.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2004, 10:34:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-09 16:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Just because these kids are not fixed, doesn't mean that RTC's don't work or are inherently bad. It makes me very angry to hear all of you guys say these things. I graduated from a RTC almost 2 years ago, and while I still struggle, I have continued to use the lessons that I learned in my everyday life. Going to a RTC did save my life. I know that many of you will claim that I am brainwashed or whatever, but the truth is, I am a happy person who learned how to be functional because of my RTC. The fact that former residents have relapsed is 1. NORMAL! 2. not the fault of the RTC. Granted, I can't speak for every RTC out there, but neither can all of you. and to claim that all are bad and destructive is b.s. and I hope that you all can realize that."


Hi, don't know if you know this but only addicts "relapse." Your generalizing all of us as addicts is not brainwashed it is well...just stupid. Go to a tough love support group if you want approval.
The Graduate
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2004, 10:40:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-10 07:34:00, Anonymous wrote:


Hi, don't know if you know this but only addicts "relapse."


Yes. And that's just one of many reasons why it's dangerous and cruel to convince a bunch of kids that they're addicts when they are not.

It's an incredible con job when you think of it, to believe something now in exchange for life after death. Even corporations with all their reward systems don't try to make it posthumous.
--Gloria Steinam, women's rights activist

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Offline spots

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« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2004, 11:43:00 AM »
Another huge component of this thread is that RTC's, TBs's, BM's, fundamental religious camps, etc. "treat" MANY kids who DON'T NEED TREATMENT AT ALL!!!

Timoclea has terrific personal experience, and can write eloquently about the abuses of treating mentally ill patients.

Ginger has terrific personal experience, and can write eloquently about the abuses of treating drug addicts.

I have personal experience, and can write about all the victims of these institutions who have no greater problem than being teenagers growing up, and who are treated in a manner that the International Red Cross identifies as torture.  

How many kids in these places really have nothing identifiably "wrong" with them?  We'll never know, because it's a industry-wide policy to keep identities, numbers, and post-graduate status a deep secret.  If you took the 600 or so Casa by the Sea inmates and did a panel on them, how many would you find that a psychiatrist would label bi-polar?  Probably not much more of a percentage than the general population.  How many would be drug addicts...not occasional users, heavy-users-to-piss-off-parents, or dabblers in every mind-altering substance known to teens?  Maybe more than the general population percentage (after all, they did get sent to these hell-holes for more-than-your-average pissing off of parents!), but what percentage would be *addicts*?

I'd venture that at least 50% of the inmates would fall in the category of normal, obnoxious kids...with a very large number products of "blended" families whose blending didn't work.  These kids would be like curds in the cream of blending that clotted when new step-parents or totally inadequate adoptive parents discover the ultimate warehousing solution to The Problem Child.  

I recently learned that in Christmas #1 in my grandaughter's "new" step-family, she and her sister got coal in their stockings...literally, the step-dad went out and found a lump of coal somewhere on the coast of Central California and put it into the stockings of his new 13- and 14-year-old stepdaughters.  His own children received an I-Pod and a cell phone. Eventually, it cost him a second mortgage on his home to get rid of one of them, but interest rates were so low that he was able to refinance without raising his monthly payments.  A win-win situation!

As for the vagueness of "success stories", I have yet to hear one single sentence from a kid or parent that outlines intelligently what the Program actually did to keep the kid from being deadorinjail.  Yet, I listen and hear snippets and anecdotes continually about small horrid examples of "treatment" of these young people.  Some survive well, some suffer longer, but most never forgive or forget.  There are no true Program success stories.  

[ This Message was edited by: spots on 2004-12-10 08:48 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2004, 02:38:00 PM »
WWASP as i personally know (was at ivy ridge for 1 1/2 years but did not graduate, was compliant to keep from being abused or nething) is not helpful at all. they use cultic brainwashing and force to scare kids into submission while lying to their parents. the parents are made to feel no blame (they tell them the kids made the choice to be sent their through there actions and that the kids are manipulators and liar). The "success"(brainwashing) only lasts for a while before kids start to realize what happened to them and start thinking for themselves again. ive been out for almost exactly a year now and it took me about a year to start realize what was going on in there. i was tehre for so long that i started to believe that we were bad kids and we needed the "discipline" and it was good for us and i needed to obey every authority figure. well now ive realized i must of been insane or something but the effect is wearing off and no i dont do drugs or sex or skip school im a straight A student and involved in many school clubs and have a really good relationship with my mom. i must say that the program has helped me on the surface to rid of my negative behaviours but inside i think im more screwed up then before i went there. questions? my email is [email protected] and my aol im is craziee mee xd
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2004, 07:08:00 PM »
Sadly, a lot of these people will never be able to write anything...
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Offline Perrigaud

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« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2004, 04:17:00 AM »
I personally think it would be easy to call anything as a cult. Religion itself is cultic. However, religion in it's pure form has proven to help people. I knew that not everything in the program was agreeable. I retained what I saw fit for me. THe program was merely an aid not an all ailing resolution. To those who did get beaten and used I am sorry. I never experienced nor saw such things. It is sad that such places have corruption. The world can be evil.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2004, 07:58:00 AM »
Cults - Warning Signs:

1. Limitation of communication with those outside the group. Books, magazines, letters, and visits with friends and family are discouraged or even banned.
(WWASP does not allow the kids incracerated in its facilities any contact with the outside world. They are only allowed to write to their parents, and according to many testimonies of survivors, the letters will not be sent if they contain too much criticism about the program or if they are not approved by the staff).

2. New members become convinced of the higher purpose of the group, i.e. an alleged miracle or the prophetic word of the group.
(New WWASPies often talk about how the program "opened their eyes", "saved their lives", etc. etc.)

3. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, be it global, social, or personal.
(This noe is self-explanatory)

4. Use of the practice of self-disclosure to members in the group. In the context of a gathering of the group, converts are encouraged to adit past sins and imperfections, and doubts about the group.
(In Seminars and group sessions, children and parents are coaxed into admitting mistakes, humiliating experiences, intimate feelings and instances of abuse, so that the group can rip into them and break them down. Their private experiences are then re-interpreted according to the program's doctrine).

5. The group's perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain everything. The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. Absolute conformity is required.
(This becomes pretty obvious when one attempts to talk to a WWASPie in a reasonable way. According to WWASPies, WWASP is always right, WWASP can't do any wrong, etc. They will often say that "the program isn't for everybody", but will never hesitate to refer you to the program, no matter what's your problem or story).

6. A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members "think" within the very abstract and narrow parameters of the group doctrine. Loaded terms and cliches prejudice thinking.
(Terms such as "change", "graduation", "magical inner child", etc. take on a whole new meaning in the program, and along with the use of cliches and certain lines, become what is known as "Program-speak".)

7. Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly interpreted through the absolute doctrine.
(WWASPies will always tell you that before WWASP, they were horrible, their lives were going down the drain, and that if they were allowed to continue in their path, they would surely be dead or in jail. According to WWASPies, the program saved their lives. You will not find a single WWASPie who claims otherwise, which is a huge red flag-- not all problems are life-threatening, and every single troubled teen is in a life-or-death situation. The fact that WWASPies are unable to claim otherwise means they have lost the ability to think critically).

8. Salvation is only possible within the group. Those who leave the group are doomed.
(Ask any WWASPie: Those who graduate are saved. Those who leave the program are liars, dirtbags, whores, and druggies, who will probably die because they have left the Holy Program).

WWASP has been established out of a different "treatment cult", by the name of LifeSpring. David Gilcrease, who created the WWASP seminars, was a LifeSpring trainer. Testimonies shows that WWASP seminars are almost identical to those of LifeSpring. More info can be found here:
http://www.isaccorp.org/cults.html

WWASP is a cult-- a highly abusive, dangerous cult. Parents, for your sake and for your children's sake, stay away from it.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2004, 05:39:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-12-20 01:17:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"I personally think it would be easy to call anything as a cult. Religion itself is cultic. However, religion in it's pure form has proven to help people. I knew that not everything in the program was agreeable. I retained what I saw fit for me. THe program was merely an aid not an all ailing resolution. To those who did get beaten and used I am sorry. I never experienced nor saw such things. It is sad that such places have corruption. The world can be evil.  "


Q.  How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?
A.  Four.  Calling the tail a leg doesn't make it one.

You can call any group a cult, just like you can call any behavior an addiction or any person "troubled."  Calling a group a cult, or a behavior an addiction, or a person "troubled" absolutely doesn't make that assertion true.

However, there are fairly good standards for evaluating how "cultish" any group is.  One of the standard tools that some law enforcement groups use for evaluating the level of cultishness of a particular group is the Bonewitz Cult Danger Evaluation Frame.

http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

In this case, the evaluation tool coming from a neopagan is a plus, as Bonewitz has been very careful to restrict the evaluation criteria to being based on behaviors and be neutral to various people's personal philosophies and religious beliefs.

I suppose what I'd encourage parents to do when they're considering a course of action for dealing with a difficult situation with their child, is to find out all they can---both open and alleged---about the various options they might be considering for help with their problem, evaluate the various groups offering help based on the Cult Danger Evaluation Frame, and then try to pick a group *less* likely to be dangerous to themselves or their children.

Parents might also want to give each group two scores---one on the group's cult danger for the parents, and one on the group's cult danger for their children.

Rather than giving an absolute decision on "this group is a cult and that one is not," the Bonewitz questionnaire gives parents something they can use to compare different groups' level of safety or dangerousness relative to each other and choose a *relatively* safer option over a relatively more dangerous one.

One thing a parent might do for reference is fill the questionnaire out for each group they're considering help from, and once for prison or the state mental hospital, and once for AA and NA, and once for outpatient psychiatric treatment.

Those groups will give a middle of the road reference point for an appropriate group cult danger level in dealing with even serious social problems.

It looks to me like WWASPS would score fairly high for cult danger level, but it's all relative, and rather than going by *my* opinion, I would hope that any parents in a difficult situation with their teen would use this evaluation tool to help them compare and contrast all the various options they may be considering and just use it as *one* tool available to help themselves when they're weighing the risks versus benefits of all their possible choices.

I'd encourage parents to try to be as impartial and abstract as possible in scoring each group's level of risk, so that they get the most benefit out of their use of this valuable tool.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2004, 07:27:00 PM »
Law Enforcement uses this tool to assess a cult?  Then calling WWASP a cult is ludicrous - the FBI, CIA, law enforcement, would have shut their programs down a long time ago!  That is unless there's a secret society of FBI agents that have their kids in one of the schools.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2004, 09:06:00 PM »
http://www.thesource4parents.com./pdf/2004/Jan_05L.pdf

Please look at this and Please tell me where it looks or sounds like these kids are in a cult.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2004, 12:53:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-20 16:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Law Enforcement uses this tool to assess a cult?  Then calling WWASP a cult is ludicrous - the FBI, CIA, law enforcement, would have shut their programs down a long time ago!  That is unless there's a secret society of FBI agents that have their kids in one of the schools.   "


Your reading comprehension sucks.

Various law enforcement agencies do use Bonewitz' evaluation frame to determine how cult-like an organization they're dealing with is.

Contrary to your assumption, there's no law against starting a cult or being a member of a cult.

The tool is just *useful* to law enforcement when members or the leadership of an organization that *may* be a cult or cult-like come to their attention for *other* reasons.  For one thing, it can help them better predict the behavior of individuals who may be targets in an investigation of something that *is* against the law.

In the case of psychotherapy cults, it can help law enforcement put together a profile that assists them in investigating fraud, child abuse, missing persons cases, etc., related to cult members.  (There have been various well-documented cults based on various collections of elaborate psychobabble.  Personally, I'd count Scientology as one of those.)

It's not illegal to join a cult, or start one.  Feel free to go out tomorrow and join the Unification Church (Moonies), or the Hari Krishnas, or the Maharishi TM folks, or the Scientologists---or, hey, do what L. Ron Hubbard did and invent your own.  You certainly won't be breaking any laws just by joining or making one, and contrary to your assumptions, law enforcement won't be coming around any time soon to shut you down.

Unless your cult involvement leads you into breaking actual laws on the books---like the ones against child abuse. (Didn't the Moonies get in trouble for that?)

If you join a cult and your involvement *does* lead you into breaking laws, then expect law enforcement to use either the Bonewits tool or some other similar general purpose tool in assessing what they're dealing with with the cult's entanglement with the various crimes and sorting out the individual involvement in the various crimes and who needs to be charged with what.

Or if there's a civil claim and the cult's practices are relevant to the case---say, hypothetically, an 80 year old billionaire joins the Moonies and a month later kicks off leaving his entire fortune to them and nothing to his son, and his son sues alleging "undue influence" (which is grounds to throw out a will).  The son's lawyer might use the Bonewits tool, or a similar instrument, in contrasting the Moonies with other groups who have received bequests that have been upheld by the Courts and in demonstrating the kind of undue influence the organization allegedly wielded over the deceased.

But in *this* case, I'm suggesting that *parents* use this tool, or any other similar belief-neutral tool for dispassionately evaluating the cult risks of one organization versus another, so the parents can make a more informed decision among the various options they're considering for dealing with their family's problems.

Timoclea
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