"SUCCESS" STORIES

[Anonymous]

Deborah seems to be posting success stories that really are not to show that these programs don't work.  I had sent my son to one.  And anyone can email me about our experience ([email protected]), I do not have a complete opinion on the final results.
My son at first had typical teenage angst but then we suffered a family tragedy that seemed to send him overboard.  He was extremely angry and aggressive towards the family for the past year.  I took him to a therapist who told me it was a parent/teen control problem. I am not controlling and have raised my kids to be responsible for their actions, and believe in letting them hang themselves within reason, but when my son was endangering others by joyriding underage, vandalizing and destroying property, disappearing for days, that is when he needed to go.  My biggest problem was my son had physically matured early and was bigger than all of us and he knew it.  It was a horrible situation.  
I can't say everyone should use a TBS, and be very careful and do your homework on the placement.  The cost is outrageous.  I will say that him being away for 10 mos. gave me and my family time to regroup and destress.  It was like a long timeout for him.  The place did ok.  The therapy work was ok.  The coping skills he learned were ok.  They touched on drug effects, which my son was starting to really get into and anger management which he definitely needed but I don't think they did enough, but he seemed determined to buck the system.
When my son came back, he still seemed about 85% the same of which I was angry.  We did some talking and arguing for a month.  He got into some small trouble at school which was disappointing.  The one thing I noticed vastly different with him was that he didn't argue and was listening better to what I said were consequences or suggestions, not perfect but better.  I told him he was not allowed to hang out at a place and with certain people, I never usually do that but I pointed out to him that all the drama seems to come from that and I suggested we try that approach and see what happens.  The drama stopped.  It would not have worked if he didn't choose to listen.  He seems to have decided to make some better choices.  He is doing better all around.  I am pleased at this time.  I do make it clear to him that I will not tolerate illegal behavior and that I told him I will petition the court to take him away if he were to go back to his old ways.  I told him he has 2 years until he's 18 and then he can do what he wants but not in my house.  When he's 18, if he is not a full time student and helping around the house with the family, he will not be living here.  
When he's in a good mood and we talk about the future, we discuss how much he thinks it will cost to live and what type of money/job.  I asked him to do the research and report back to me and I would pay for him and 2 friends to go to the movies.  Eye opener.  I told him I'm done with freebies for him.. I provide food, shelter and few clothes.  The rest is up to him now.  He got a small p/t job and has been getting odd jobs around the neighborhood.  I also quit my job to be home more for the next two years, sucks financially but seems more stable.
Things are tons better.
Anyone out there who has out of control teen, I feel bad for you.  It's like going thru he**, you never know who's going to knock on your door with bad news about your kid.  It's soo stressful on everyone.  And you don't know what to do, there's not much help.  
Start when they are little when you have the biggest influence, they will use that when they go thru their teens.

[Antny]

You know, I wonder why those kids went to "treatment" in the first place?

I HAVE to speak up here.  I still have contact with kids that I worked with years ago.  Gang kids, Sex offenders, etc...who really did change themselves at the core level through the work they did at Woodside Trails Therapeutic Camp.  Have you got a better place to put those kids who are abused, neglected and left on the streets.  How do they get through all that anger and live a normal life (whatever that is).  The Programs that try to help aren't necessarily the problem.  There are many many different treatment modalities, and I disagree with many of them, but I MUST say that I have seen it WORK.

NO GRADUATE of WOODSIDE has EVER reoffended SEXUALLY.  I call that success.  Sure some have gotten in trouble for drugs, stealing, etc...but they were sent there for offender treatment.  Not that facility is shut down, 48 kids bounced back into the system.  Why?  Because of a lack of understanding and bad press.  The place really did great work.  Now the other Camps in Texas are in Jeopardy.  Interestingly enough, the one camp that I worked at and couldn't stand how mean they were to the kids (Pegasus in Lockhart) got a glowing review from the state.  They truly treat the kids like little criminals, and it's completely inhumane (IMHO).  The programs that do the Relationship nad Esteem based work are getting blasted...but they are doing the work that has proven results.

Don't pretend like this is not a necessary evil in today's world.  It is.  There are lota and lots of Fucked up kids out there.  Who's gonna help them?  What if their families are the reason they are fucked up in the first place.  What about all the other causes in this culture?  

Don't blame the Programs...the kids were fucked before they ever got there.  Don't lecture me about developmental issues,  that's what I'm studying in school.  Take a look at the bigger picture, not just the scapegoat!

[Nihilanthic]

Have you taken a look at the bigger picture Antny?

http://www.askquestions.org/articles/teens might shed a little light.

http://www.thestraights.com might also.

The kids who need treatment and need to be kept from us if they ARE that dangerous, do need a place to go. But, they need actual help, not just slave-training to be obedient. Just show us how you make these amazing changes and we'll be happy! All we care about is... are they treated humanely, are they really helped, and do they have a way to get help if someone does unfortunately abuse them? Thats it! If a program does what it says and doesn't hurt anyone in the process we'd LOVE it.

Also, people who really DONT need to be shipped off often are, to the for-profit ones. It seems your program was not one of those, but if you did a little digging you might see why we get our hackles raised so easily. Enough bad impressions were made so that we're wary of them all.

If you really do help them, and they wre treated well, then I will personally apologize for people being so damned combative with you just becuase of what line of work you went into. However, I do have to tell you, with the stuff we've seen, its hard to keep that out of our minds.

The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140440607/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Tacitus, Roman senator and historian (A.D. c.56- c.115)

[Perrigaud]

I am. I've always been an extreme person and it took an extreme reality check. I am where I need to be. The program worked for me personally.

[Nihilanthic]

In my somewhat well informed opinion, bullshit  :wave:

The weavers of linen and hempen cloth, ... may exercise their trades without paying any fine.
-- Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations (chapter X, part II) notes:

[Christopher Riner]

I haven't posted to this thing in a while because I always ended up just like yelling at other people's opinions and trying to defend my own.  

I am not sure if there are still parents reading this thread like the person who made the first post, but the advice I would give you is not to feel like you have totally lost control, but don't feel like you are a failure and you did everything wrong, either.  The programs aren't made to 'fix' people, they just give families a way to kiond of make a strategy for what to do with a life or a family that seems to be going down the tube.  Don't ever give up, you can always keep thinking of ways to show your kid that you guys are on the same team, and that no matter what you'll get through it all.  And don't ever stop letting them know how much you love them.

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine that it takes a year-and-a-half to three years to come up with a 'strategy'.
Ya know, nothing can be 'righted' until one admits they were 'wrong'.
How are parents and teens on the same team when they speak to each other 5 minutes a month for sometimes years.
Jeeezzzz. At least call a spade a spade. Programs are holding tanks, pavlovian laboratories.... and some parents are just okay with that.

[Perrigaud]

You won't ever see me. I am still where I need to be. I'm not discrediting some of these horror stories. They may have happened. However no one can brainwash you unless you allow them to. So, You won't see me in five years. Oh and I didn't get beaten either.

[Cleopatra2U]

Reading this thread makes me wonder if parents who send their kids away have something in common: difficulty talking with their children about sensitive issues such as alcohol, drugs, and sex.  It seems to me that many parents (including my own) either can't or won't talk to their kids about these things, so they send their kids to places not necessarily to learn what they themselves can't teach but to "fix" the problems that have occurred due to their inability or unwillingness to communicate with their own children.

Any thoughts?

[Nihilanthic]

Perrigaud, yes, you can brainwash people without them letting you. You're either ignorant, or in denial. If the CIA seems to think its possible I'd be inclined to agree, they'd know about that kind of thing, now wouldn't they?

Or maybe you haven't talked to a program child before. That wasy the most painful experience I ever had. Or maybe you still are one.

Cleopatra2U - I get that too. There are so many taboos and subjects you "never speak about" (or even think about!) between some parents in some sulb-cultures/religious denominations, and their children.

My friends mom (who talks to me a lot too) is much, much better at communicating with her kids than most other parents i've ever seen. The funny thing is, she seems to not have really grown up. Sure she pays the bills and makes them do their homework and drags them to school but she still has fun, kids around, tells jokes, and generally acts like someone my own age. I'm turning 20 in December.

When I told her about this issue after her daughter read in some teen magazine about Mountain park, she was totally horrified and in disbelief. But the more I got to know her the more I realized she had a true bond with her kids and wouldn't let it be seperated by some program, and she *gasp!* actually told them about things like sex, drugs, paying bills, jobs, how the opposite acts, etc.

I think it comes down to this hierarchial culture where topics are deemed inappropriate to think or talk about, that creates these scisms between the child and parent. I know parents who can't even say the "m-word" to their teenage children and freak out when they have puberty, and generally ill-prepare their kids for things like having free time, making their own decisions, paying bills, and doing things on their own volition, not because they were told to.

When there isn't a hierarchy in everyone's mind, and you can talk about anything you want, you create a bond that can't be broken by irrational fears and lies from program salesmen. Yeah, her kids might curse or disagree sometimes, but they have a real bond, are anything but naive, and can certainly think for themselves.

Oh, and just for the used-god salesmen who might come up, they're a very secular family and they're doing JUST fine, thank you! None of them are sleeping around, doing drugs, getting into fights... or taking crap from anyone  :grin:

For three days after death, hair and fingernails continue to grow but phone calls taper off.  
-- Johnny Carson

[Antigen]

On 2004-11-21 15:20:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"Perrigaud, yes, you can brainwash people without them letting you. You're either ignorant, or in denial. If the CIA seems to think its possible I'd be inclined to agree, they'd know about that kind of thing, now wouldn't they?

Yes, this is very, very true. Howsomever, it's a very sensitive subject for a number of reasons. I imagine it's a whole lot like a middle aged guy coming to terms w/ the harsh reality that he may (just might, possibly) not be quite as... uhm.... virile as he was @ 18. I mean, your mind is your bestest friend, you depend on it, have total faith and confidence in it. The very idea that someone can sneak past your guards and tweak the controls w/o you knowing it is terrifying if you think about it.

So most people don't think about it, refuse to believe it, can't entertain the notion that it's even possible. Most people feel the same way about hypnotism, never even comprehending that when they go to church, sing and get that 'filled w/ the spirit' feeling, that's essentially hypnosis, though it's usually a consensual arrangement.

But the truth is exactly the opposite. No one can be brainwashed with informed consent. You can resist brainwashing to the exact extent that you understand the process, or at least the routine. When you're surprised, emotional or caught off guard, that's when you're vulnerable. Almost any strong emotion will do.

 

It continues to amaze me to talk to law students -- college
graduates all and smarter than the average bear -- who will
seriously tell me about how dangerous mj is and how it
destroys the lives of those who use it and who, in the
very next sentence, will tell me how they and their
friends -- now CPAs, engineers, med students -- used
pot regularly through high school and college.  And
they don't see the contradiction between these statements.

We're not just talking ignorance here -- we are talking
deep down, serious, religious indoctrination.


--Buford C. Terrell, Professor of Law, South Texas College of Law

[thank you, Crazy Mac!]
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

What IS brainwashing in the context of specialty boarding schools?  Is that a "bad" thing???

[Nihilanthic]

I'm never, EVER, going to condone ANYONE brainwashing ANYONE else, for ANY REASON. I fail to see how anyone could ever justify that!

The brainwashing in this context is basically the only way they work!

Children are took in, isolated, psychologically broken down, emotionally battered, and more often than lost physically injured through 'restraint' or by  the actions of the higher level students.

That in and of itself, being treated brutally, having to get permission as if its a prvildage to take a shit or stand up or scratch your nose or look out a window, can do plenty to brainwash people. Go try some marathon restraint or time in OP and see how long you stay sane.

The other thing that can be brainwashing is the damn seminars. The group think, the extreme emotions... why the hell do you think these children throw up in these WONDERFUL seminars? The seminars are held in utmost secrecy, they're all very tired at the end of it, and what I've seen in testimony from students and the writeups of some parents who attended seems to indicate its just a mindfuck.

Besides brainwashing how do you 'instill' character traits? Please tell me! I'd love to know! The only thing these things seem to do is isolate, treat like shit, and break down inside (and outside), and spit out obedient, scared, scarred program children.

Yes, PROGRAM CHILD. Thats what they're called by their own parents. All the stupid rules to establish all this worship and submission... they serve no other purpose! All this isolation from the rest of the world, what use is that? Its certainly not going to help them fit into society!

Hell I'm sure most of them would freak out because I'm listening to a Rammstein song right now. I think I'll end on some translated lines from this song. Its called "Amerika"

Freedom is playing on all violins
Music is coming from the whitehouse

Faith means not wanting to know what is true.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher

[Perrigaud]

Please. No I'm not ignorant nor am I in denial. Maybe it is in fact you that is ignorant. I made a decision to change. I knew I needed to change. Oh and by the way, I have been out for about 4 years. So, before you go around blaming it on brainwashing use your head.

[Perrigaud]

By the way I am a graduate. My parent's were more than open with me. I wasn't there for drugs. Poor pitiful you. Get over it.