"SUCCESS" STORIES

[Nihilanthic]

Who said anyone was in there for drug use? Certainly not me. Especially after having spoken to people who were put in for no reason or stupid reasons.

I was talking to someone *else*, not *you*, who said:
   
Posted: 2004-11-21 21:26:00    What IS brainwashing in the context of specialty boarding schools? Is that a "bad" thing???

And then, I went through how you could brainwash in a program gone wrong. Psychological regression seminars and mistreatment can brainwash.

You're awfully defensive there! Maybe your program was legit, maybt not. Poor pitiful you.

Get over it.

who needs regular piss tests more than a former blowski who has his finger on the button?
--Chuck Beyer

[Helena Handbasket]

Brainwashing is somewhat like dementia... you never know when it hits you.

[Perrigaud]

Oh. Yeah my program was legit. I'm not saying that others didn't have a bad experience. I'm sure there were cases where such things happened. No place is ever 100% pure. I feel bad for those whe had a hard time. As for me, I am more than happy with the outcome of my program.

[Nihilanthic]

Well, thats why were're HERE.

To seperate the two.

"sunshine" as one of our posters calls it.

Reform and regulation, and justice for those who have been abused. Making them change their methods to get rid of the absurd secrecy and isolation that neither have any therapeutic merit or excuses when children are involved.

And making them do what they say they are going to do without resorting to abuse.

Sorry to say it, but even if you were given nothing more severe tahn a hug you're going to be grilled here. There has been that much abuse. The problem is getting WORSE becuase its a damn money making industry Perrigaud.

There's so much comedy on television.  Does that cause comedy in the streets?
-- Dick Cavett

[Anonymous]

Perrigaud graduated from a WWASP "school". WWASP is not "legit" in any way.

[Anonymous]

Nihilintic - What isn't a money making industry?  Think about it.

[Cleopatra2U]

On 2004-11-23 07:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What isn't a money making industry?"

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora

[Nihilanthic]

Nihilanthic. Or just say Nihil, or "niles" as I've been called before if copy and paste do not work properly.

Ok, yeah most industries tend to make money. However, when the point of it is supposedly diagnosing, treating, and helping children, the children and ethics should come before the damn profit margins.

When profit margins come before the kids, well, look all around you. This is what happens. Regulation is direly needed.

They can still make their fucking money, but might not afford the extra luxurious yachts until next year if they lose a little profit to making sure the kids aren't wrongly 'diagnosed', badly treated, or kept too long just to keep their coffers full.

Faith means not wanting to know what is true.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher

[Anonymous]

This is interesting.  The cost of having a kid in the juvenile system is around $180.00/daily, that approx $5400 a month.  The most expensive WWASPS school is $3900/month. What would happen if parents had to pay to have their child in a juvenile detention center?  You have a child, they need intervention, the taxpayers pay.  The parents don't pay squat!  Added bonus, the kid has a record. If they're lucky they'll get a GED and a five minute phone call once a week and a visit closely monitored by guards with guns.  Yep, I'd choose that over having to pay out of my own pocket.  

How much does a hospital stay cost if you have no insurance?  $400-500 a day to pump a kid full of anti-depressants?

As long as someone else pays (taxes or insurance) for a member of your family Niles, is that better?

[Nihilanthic]

1. Who said they'd be in jail? deadinsaneorinjail is progam speak and is not something valid in the real world.

2. We pay taxes to incarcerate people who actually commit crimes.

3. Who said they actually need to be sent anywhere?

What I should ask you is: 1. Who decides if they even need any therapy at all? 2. why should we trust people who want to get that 3900 a month and have a LONG record of abuse and manipulation themselves?

Oh, and another thing. There are far less expensive alternatives to incarceration, abuse and brainwashing for a long, long period of time. Such as... not fixing what isn't really even a problem! Doing your job as a parent! Out-patient treatment   If there IS an actual problem! Or in those 1% cases where its acutally necessary to incarcerate them for an actual problem, a LEGIT treatmetn center.

And again, I'll reiterate: If the accused treatment centers would change how they operate to 1. not abuse and 2. prove they're not abusing and 3. giving the children within access to the law, advocatcy groups, and the outside world, and their parents, we'd not be here would we?

I'd rather not pay a fortune to have my kid isolated, brainwashed, abused, kept from me, and come back hating themself, me, live, and the world, thank you. Go take a trip to the forums for specific programs and read how they're all handling it. Or maybe go read the other stories about various treatment centers.

I hate the fact that I've known for such a long time now there are thousands and thousands of people locked up, terrified, miserable, and scarred children who only look forwards to sleep, dread getting up, and hope they get out of the stupid program before they die or ACTUALLY go insane, and I hate the fact that people like you refuse to see anything except what the programs tell you.

But, I regress, its not like you'll ever entertain the possibility any of this is real. We're ALL lying manipulators in a massive conspiracy to make the kids go drink, smoke pot, fuck and worship satan, right?  :rofl:

Hands that help are far better then lips that pray.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

[Perrigaud]

Funny how your anonymous. Yep that's where I graduated. Legit or not it helped me and I stand behind it.

[Anonymous]

http://www.thestatenislandboys.com/U_th ... /index.htm

Someone said that times haven't changed that much since we were kids (us parents)  Take a look at this and compare.  

"Taking drugs meant orange-flavored chewable aspirin?"  

"Having a weapon in school meant being caught with a slingshot?"

"They threatened to keep kids back a grade if they failed. . and they did?"

WWASPS (and I'm sure other programs) teach us to again live basic values. Something our kids never knew

Your horror stories don't wash...

[Anonymous]

There was an overall implication that kids were better off because moms were home and grandparents/extended family were involved in kids lives.

This generation will write:
Remember when parents were too busy to be involved in their kids lives, so they were shipped off to behavior modification facilties, isolated from their families and the world to be tortured and have their brains twisted? Gawd, WHAT were they thinking?

[Nihilanthic]

You don't teach someone else your values by punishing them and making them suffer if they don't comply, and indoctrinating them with those stupid seminars. I've read what people who have been in them have said about it and it seems to mesh with the wellspring and sensitivity training bullshit.

Basic Values... Basic Values my ass. Why would you need to help somone with depression by teaching Values? Drug addition? Values won't fix that. Any kind of real psychological problem? Values won't fix that EITHER.

Values come from within, but when you are young parents influence it. Being stripsearched, beaten, restrained as punishment, fed horrible food, and kept in stress positions doesn't do anything except break the person, and they'd accept your 'values' to get the hell out of there, and act like it infront of parents so they don't get sent back. It might even brainwash a percentage of them.

But that kind of torture is not moral, and its against my value system to do so. MY values are respecting people, not shoving your beliefs on them, not hurting anyone unless its necessary (to make them get good grades or not be gay, or 'fix' mental problems is not one of those necessary reasons), and using love and positive reinforcement and teaching, not lecturing or beating-into.

Everything that people say to you is personal. Whether it is constructive criticism or not will determine whether it cam from and asshole or not.

----Bill Warbis

[Anonymous]

Interesting how similar the story lines are.
Wilderness, RTC 'failed' and still looking for another program. And this woman's a therapist.

http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ ... 2;t=000878

24 Nov 2004
Well..... after a wilderness and a TBS...daughter isn't going to school, not taking meds regularly, and generally back to her old tricks....lying, sexually acting out, failing,..all the old borderline tendency issues.... We have done all we know to do....any suggestions? Time is running out as she will be 18 in February.

15 June 2003
Our daughter is in a wilderness program in the far northern US. She is beginning to "get it" according to her therapist and by her letters home.Her therapist believes she is alot less pathological,than she originally thought, ("incomplete personality), but of course still needs assistance. Once she comes home in 4 weeks if she isn't successful even with alot of theraputic support....it has been suggested she go to a theraputic boarding school. Any thoughts or anyone with experience with this they are willing to share?

16 June
My daughter is in her 4th week at New Horizons. We are very pleased so far....anyone had experience with this program...results,etc.?

28 June
I am geting very concerned whether we can provide the structure for our daughter coming out of New Horizons in 2 weeks. anyone have experience with Aldern Academy in SC, Carolina Springs in NC or Hidden Lakes in GA? We are also looking a t a ranch setting in Tennessee...the Westmorlands? XX has no drug or alchohol use. The latest psychological testing is showing big time borderline tendencies. I know she is 16 an can grow out of alot of this. But my experience with these kids is they live life hard!

5 July
Per the wilderness therapist, we have my daughter in a small private hs for the fall, she will ride with me each way as I am a guidance counselor at a middle school nearby. Two days a week she has therapy after school, another 2 days she will work at a horse ranch. Family night is the other night during the work week. We have all privldeges on a "have to earn it back" basis and no friends for the immediate future...no phone, computer etc.Her Dad recently got a divorce so she can again, after many years spend every other weekend with him. He will inforce our rules there as well.

7 July
Our daughter is due home Friday...got a report from her Wilderness Program today that she had finally admitted to a romanitc relationship with another girl, after lying originally. She said it was all for attention. The girl has left and she had been our daughter's best friend while she was there.
The therrapist is telling us to have a TBS lined up in case her trial at home doesn't work.
We don't know what to believe at this point...our daughter may have used this girl like she had boys ...or she might have just been experimenting...she has told me before she might have "feelings" toward girls...and she lies so much, we just don't know. We knew wilderness wasn't a cure all...but we are discouraged.

29 Mar 2004
Our daughter almost did it this time...took over 100 Tylenol and chased it with alcohol. They saved her after 1 day in the ER, 2 in ICU and one in pediatrics. She is in a short term psychiatric center and we need more assistance. She has a personality disorder as well as depression and adhd, inattentive type.

13 April
Well..it is after the fact...but anyone with experience with LaAmastad in Maitland, Florida?

18 April
When I went to her RTC yesterday...she looked so good...acted so "ok"....I feel such a sense of loss...

19 April
I feel blessed that XX survived her suicide attempt and is working on her issues at the RTC. I am also thankful I have her in my life, "normal" or not...it's just heartbreaking when I see her and the guilt I feel for not recognizing what she was masking over the last 8 months is a big issue for me right now. She slipped it past us all...but as a therpaist and mother...I feel I should have seen it!

2 May
As many of you know I am a therpist, in addition to beeing XX's mom, (daughter, age 17 at RTC). Perhaps that is clouding my judgemenet...again!!!!
The therapist at the RTC is recommmending we let our daughter, (with borderline tendencies) make her own choices as far as friends go, boys, etc....and let the chips fall where they may for XX to deal with. Granted...that all sounds good in theory...but she is like a moth to a flame still at this point....calling old boyfriends who treated her badly, (or whom she used)....and if she can't get one on the phone keeps calling old boys in her life until she gets one on the phone...even though they have moved on or even asked her to go away, due to her latest "drama". Had a grea visit with her on pas yesterday, shopped til we dropped...had good talks...only to find out at the end that she still has her communication network with her old friends at home through letters to one of her "ok" friends.... boy was I steemed.... I feel like an idiot again...that I was buying the "changes" we had seen and what my daughter was saying.....
AS I said... I understand the concepts theraputically....but when she comes home I feel like we are handing her a loaded gun..... she is being ery "logical" athe RTC... telling then exactly what they want to hear, (she knows all too well).... she is bright but incredibly immature, naive and impulsive.
So... am I being too controlling, co dependent, just don't want to "let go"....or am I just still too **** scared after her suicde attempt. All of your imput will be appreciated, as always.

3 May
I've got it...trying to protect her I almost killed her and made her dependent and weak... hopefully it is not too late for her to learn the skills she needs and use them with her friends.

6 May
Still I have to say again...for me...it deepens the guilt me that I can help others and not XX. I understand that I am Mom here and that's all I should be....but it still seem to be harder because I am a counselor. I mean we feel enough guilt as parents anyway when our kids have problems. Also at times I feel it has kept her from getting the help she needs as professionals would say, "well she has so much support at home"....her dad and I are both therapists and her stepdad is a teacher who works with kids a lot also. In addition, XX has been seeing a psychitrist since age 10 and counselors from time to time also.....in general sometimes I feel my profession has failed her as well...which makes me feel even worse...if that makes sense.  I am working on it all...it really needs to be about XX at this point and I am trying to let go in many way...

12 May
The RTC staff feels that XX needs to make her own decisions and will see through the bad relationships without my "protecting her" and cutting them out of her life as I have done in the past. She may get her feelings hurt....but they feel she can handle it and will not rebel against me as has also been her history. The therapist also feels the tremendous guilt she feels lying and sneaking won't be there.
She is also VERY open and honest about her feelings towards these people now and talking to us about them...the counselor doesn't want to drive her back "underground" where she was before...lying, sneaking etc....
The whole idea as I understand it is to keep the communication open at all costs...so she doesn't "go away" again emotionally into the dark hole of depression and deception that led to her suicide atttempt. Also, to be honest the strict rules and telling her who to see and what to do certainly hasn't worked over the years, (not to mention it is exhausting)... XX is stronger than I have given her credit for and can handle the "bumps and bruises" of adolescence that I have tried to run interference for.....I have to let her know I trust her to choose and decide....I have made her dependent and weak....for her age....now have to let her grow up.

4 June
After all we have been through my husband and I are separating.
My daughter is home from TBS and doing pretty well, but this past two years appear to be taking it's toll now.
My husband never realized he was "part of the problem"...it was all my daughter....she has to be top priority now....

24 Nov
Well.....after a wilderness and a TBS...daughter isn't going to school, not taking meds regularly, and generally back to her old tricks....lying, sexually acting out, failing,..all the old borderline tendency issues....
We have done all we know to do....any suggestions? Time is running out as she will be 18 in February.

25 Nov
My daughter is soon to be 18...failing her senior year, not wanting to go to school....beautiful, bright and troubled....won't take meds regualrly.. denies depression, has borderline tendencies... ...anyone know of programs for kids of this type?