Why some deserved to be there (clarification)

[85 Day Jerk]

Holy Handcuffs Batman!!!!   It's been about 5 days since I started this thread, I had a busy weekend.  I want to clarify once again Deserve to Be There.  I fucked up in my wording because I use goddamn library computers and they only give you 30 minutes tops. I did not have all damn day to analyze the shit, I just typed it so here goes.  None of us were angels. None.  We DID need to have our freedoms taken away so that we could learn to appreciate them and get our lives on track.  By saying we deserved to be THERE, I messed up, because THERE was so messed up.  Helen Petermann, Jim Hartz, Aimee Wrong, Liz Cassidy, Chris Cassler, all became tools of evil at one time or another and I do not condone what they did at all.  For those on the board that have known me for a while, you probably miss my insights and such.  Sorry, but the well ran dry for starters, but now we have some folks from the Late '70's Boom Era coming into the forum and sparking up memories again.  As for how I remember things so well, think about that big guy in the Jack Nickolson movie "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest."  He never spoke, they called him chief, and he just kicked back and observed.  That is how it was for me.  I would go 3 or 4 days without speaking if I could manage it.  My eyes were open and my mind was like a giant VCR.  It recorded everything.  Is that a simple enough explaination?  I also write about other things.  Currently, I have a monologue being incorporated into a rather lengthly song for a local punk rock band.  I also have 2 science fiction stories evolving.  Just for shits and giggles I will post a brief synopsis for you all on that free for all forum just as soon as I have the time.  Library Time, I mean.   Well it's been fun and I hope to God that nobody copies and pastes the derogatory stuff I wrote about slow typists sitting in the dark and tries to post what I ended up editting, god I hate when that happens![ This Message was edited by: 85 Day Jerk on 2005-10-17 16:42 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-17 16:22:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:

"Holy Handcuffs Batman!!!!   It's been about 5 days since I started this thread, I had a busy weekend.  I want to clarify once again Deserve to Be There.  I fucked up in my wording because I use goddamn library computers and they only give you 30 minutes tops. I did not have all damn day to analyze the shit, I just typed it so here goes.  None of us were angels. None.  We DID need to have our freedoms taken away so that we could learn to appreciate them and get our lives on track.  By saying we deserved to be THERE, I messed up, because THERE was so messed up.  Helen Petermann, Jim Hartz, Aimee Wrong, Liz Cassidy, Chris Cassler, all became tools of evil at one time or another and I do not condone what they did at all.  For those on the board that have known me for a while, you probably miss my insights and such.  Sorry, but the well ran dry for starters, but now we have some folks from the Late '70's Boom Era coming into the forum and sparking up memories again.  As for how I remember things so well, think about that big guy in the Jack Nickolson movie "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest."  He never spoke, they called him chief, and he just kicked back and observed.  That is how it was for me.  I would go 3 or 4 days without speaking if I could manage it.  My eyes were open and my mind was like a giant VCR.  It recorded everything.  Is that a simple enough explaination?  I also write about other things.  Currently, I have a monologue being incorporated into a rather lengthly song for a local punk rock band.  I also have 2 science fiction stories evolving.  Just for shits and giggles I will post a brief synopsis for you all on that free for all forum just as soon as I have the time.  Library Time, I mean.   Well it's been fun and I hope to God that nobody copies and pastes the derogatory stuff I wrote about slow typists sitting in the dark and tries to post what I ended up editting, god I hate when that happens![ This Message was edited by: 85 Day Jerk on 2005-10-17 16:42 ]"

Lots of kids were put in there for NO reason whatsoever except that their parents were scared and the staff took advantage of that. Kids that had never even seen drugs let along do them. That was me and I didn't fucking deserve shit.

[Anonymous]

I most respectfully post my disagreement with the statement that anyone needed their freedom taken away.

[Anonymous]

c'mon, Jerk, admit it.  You liked Straight, and enjoy reminescing about it.  It was fun.  It's OK, you can share that with us, we're the Group!

[Anonymous]

Damn, Jerk, you've convinced me!  STRAIGHT, INCORPORATED SAVED MY LIFE!!!!!! I DESERVED TO BE THERE!!!! WITHOUT STRAIGHT, I'D BE DEADINSANEORINJAIL!!!!!!!!

Here I'd been, wasting my life hating Straight, until finally, 85Day Jerk set me right about the whole thing.  Thanks, Jerk.



Wow.  What a breakthrough.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-17 16:22:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:

 We DID need to have our freedoms taken away so that we could learn to appreciate them and get our lives on track.

Uh, speak for yourself.  If anything I needed a little more freedom to figure out my place in life and the world.  A parents job isn't to control kids and take away freedom, its to help them understand how to deal with that freedom appropriately...to help steer them through the rough waters of adolescence and guide them into adulthood.  Natural consequences of impulsive actions during that time are essential to their development.

 

For those on the board that have known me for a while, you probably miss my insights and such.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

[Anonymous]

Wow, Jerk, it's all clear to me now-----I DESERVED to be forced to sit in my shit for hours, be deprived of food, sleep, education, normal socialization, and freedom, I DESERVED to be harrassed, humiliated, poked, prodded, beaten up, brainwashed, assaulted, and bullied.  After all, I was a DRUGGIE!!!!   You know, a teenage pot smoker, an overdose waiting to happen.  I think I liked to listen to music my parents had no appreciation for, and I may have skipped school once or twice.  Oh yeah, and I was growing my hair longer than my dad approved of it being.  Definitely deserved to be in Straight, it saved my life , or at least "appreciate my freedom and get my life on track".  Thanks for the insight, Jerk, you've really shown me the error of my Straight-hating ways.  Now, thanks to Jerk's "Awareness", I realize that Straight was a wonderful place that I was priveledged to attend.  I appreciate the new perspective you've given me on the whole Straight, Inc. experience, Jerk, you've really shown me the light.

I just wish I hadn't wasted all that time hating Straight and everything it did.  Boy, do I feel stupid now.......

[Antigen]

"

On 2005-10-17 16:22:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:

None of us were angels. None. We DID need to have our freedoms taken away so that we could learn to appreciate them and get our lives on track.

No, my life was just starting to get on track. That's what scared my mother so much. I was starting to make real friends instead of just going through each school day trying to dodge the worst bullying w/o getting into trouble. I was making money working w/ my dad in a little repair shop. I was getting good grades, playing sports and (shock and aw) actually maybe starting to forge a romantic type relationship with one very talented guitar player. He landed up at Berkeley. Oh, thank you thank you, Straight, Inc., for saving me from that desperate fate!
 :roll:  

A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

[Carmel]

I think everyone is missing the point.  

No one actual deserves to be abused, however, some people did need a break from the downward spiral that was caused by you or me or our parents or any number of factors.

Straight wasnt the answer, but I think for many people, being free wasnt the answer either.  Now, that sucks real bad....but its just the truth.  Being in the wrecked homes with wrecked parents wasnt any more unhealthy than sitting in your piss and shit for hours in my opinion.

I was a total asshole before my mom put me in there, did I deserve it? NO.  Did I need to get away from the sick homelife I had been enduring for years and years? YES.  That being said, I was a total asshole AFTER I got out too.

The reality is that we were damned if we did and damned if we didnt.  Its not a question of deserving anything really.

I was very much like Ginger, I got sent away to my aunts house and sat up and flew right for almost a year trying to get on track.  This was my first abusive treatment.  my Aunt was a sadistic tyrant and no amount of do-gooding was going to get me anywhere.  Straight As, cheerleading, even the friggin school paper.  And you know what? After all that, my parents were still so jacked up that I was still treated like an offender.  So of course I acted an ass when I got home.  Straight wasnt the answer any more than than my parents were, see?

You can knee me in the balls for saying this but, we have to accept where we came from and stop placing blame and talking about what we deserve.  The world is a big ugly UNFAIR place and I am so sick of people running through life thinking they are so god damned entitled.  It is possible to make the choice to make the best of who you are, regardless of where you come from.  You just keep on keepin on.

YES it sucked, and YES it was ABUSIVE and YES we have lingering neurosis because of it.....but by hating a thing so much, you only give it more power.  Straight will keep on abusing you until you die if you let it.

The best we can do now, is try to stop it from happening to others.

[RTP2003]

On 2005-10-18 12:42:00, Carmel wrote:

"I think everyone is missing the point.  





Straight wasnt the answer, but I think for many people, being free wasnt the answer either.  Now, that sucks real bad....but its just the truth.  Being in the wrecked homes with wrecked parents wasnt any more unhealthy than sitting in your piss and shit for hours in my opinion.

I think that coming from a "broken home" (over 50% of households in some parts of these United States) would have been a hell of a lot healthier than enduring a year or so of Straight.  Saying that I was in a "downward spiral" that needed some kind of intervention, maybe not as drastic as Straight, but some kind of intervention nonetheless, is part and parcel of the DEADINSANEINJAIL statements that the Staff at Straight and Stepcultists of all varieties like to proclaim, and it is complete and utter jive.  

Looking for anwers?  Straight wasn't "the answer" but maybe another program would be?  How 'bout thinking of life and it's problems NOT as a question or problem to be "answered" but as a mystery to be enjoyed?  How 'bout letting each of us come up with our own answers (yes, but your best thinking got you here)?  How about not buying into the lies of Straight and Stepcult that we were damaged, that we had inherent defects that needed "treatment"?

I'm not "missing the point" at all, Carmel.  Jerk believes that we deserved to be in Straight.  He has said it several times, and I find it even more offensive than his reminescences of all the "good times" he had there.

So what program are you sending your kids to Carmel?  Which one is the "answer"?

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-18 12:42:00, Carmel wrote:

 Being in the wrecked homes with wrecked parents wasnt any more unhealthy than sitting in your piss and shit for hours in my opinion.

I'm guessing you switched the sense of that sentence, right? Sitting in shit is no worse than living w/ sadistic lunatics?

There's a difference, though. My fucked up parents had to work and sleep and all. I got to go to school and even to visit my rich cousins for a couple of weeks over the summer time. And they were very cool people, for spoiled rich kids anyway. BTW, Straight took them away too. No intentionally. Just that, well, you go missing for a couple of years and your own mother is telling everybody you're a heroin shooting street walker, well... we lost touch and never reconnected.

But there was only so much my mom could do, only so much control she could exert. That was the problem, from her point of view. I was escaping. That's what got most of us in the Program; we dared to start outgrowing the cute little pup stage of childhood. Straight was the answer for parents who couldn't handle reality.

Now, all that is said and done many years ago as far as I'm concerned. I escaped the influence of those sadistic lunatics.

The trouble I'm trying to address is not personal. I'm fine, really, thanks for your concern. The problem I'm tryng to address is a broadly held misconception that these sadistic lunatics are sane and competent to make and enforce laws. We let them spend public funding, indoctrinate our children through the Ad Council, in the schools and elsewhere, to demand and gain access to my children's piss for their perverse interests, to make any of us unemployed and unemployable and even to send our young men and women to kill and die over the ludicrous notion that doing so will stop CIA from growing and profiting from one plant or another in various foreign countries.

When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=william+blake' target='_new'>William Blake

[Carmel]

On 2005-10-18 12:52:00, RTP2003 wrote:

"

On 2005-10-18 12:42:00, Carmel wrote:


"I think everyone is missing the point.  








Straight wasnt the answer, but I think for many people, being free wasnt the answer either.  Now, that sucks real bad....but its just the truth.  Being in the wrecked homes with wrecked parents wasnt any more unhealthy than sitting in your piss and shit for hours in my opinion.

I think that coming from a "broken home" (over 50% of households in some parts of these United States) would have been a hell of a lot healthier than enduring a year or so of Straight.  Saying that I was in a "downward spiral" that needed some kind of intervention, maybe not as drastic as Straight, but some kind of intervention nonetheless, is part and parcel of the DEADINSANEINJAIL statements that the Staff at Straight and Stepcultists of all varieties like to proclaim, and it is complete and utter jive.  



Looking for anwers?  Straight wasn't "the answer" but maybe another program would be?  How 'bout thinking of life and it's problems NOT as a question or problem to be "answered" but as a mystery to be enjoyed?  How 'bout letting each of us come up with our own answers (yes, but your best thinking got you here)?  How about not buying into the lies of Straight and Stepcult that we were damaged, that we had inherent defects that needed "treatment"?



I'm not "missing the point" at all, Carmel.  Jerk believes that we deserved to be in Straight.  He has said it several times, and I find it even more offensive than his reminescences of all the "good times" he had there.



So what program are you sending your kids to Carmel?  Which one is the "answer"?"

Look, you are just putting words in my mouth.  The truth is that I am no way supporting Straight, or saying that anyone needs to be in any program.  

I dont care what Jerk is saying, it isnt what I AM saying, RTP. When I said everyone, I meant it.  

"Saying that I was in a "downward spiral" that needed some kind of intervention, maybe not as drastic as Straight, but some kind of intervention nonetheless, is part and parcel of the DEADINSANEINJAIL statements that the Staff at Straight and Stepcultists of all varieties like to proclaim"

This just isnt true, it isnt anything to do with deadinsane orinjail, as much as you may want it to be.  How can it be if you are in a home where you are beaten or molested or neglected?  Are you saying that an intervention on behalf of someone going through these things is Stepcultism?  How can that be?  Truly, how can it? i prefer not to let these situations remain "mysteries" to be explored.  I hope you wouldnt either. No, the only way it comes close to what you say is if STEPCULTISM happens to be the itervening party.  There is a difference.  All intervention is not wrong.

My opinion may not apply to you RTP, it cant possibly apply to everyone, I know this.  However, I dont think its unreasonable to assume it may have applied to quite alot of people.  And I am only able to speak of things from my point of view.  Please dont be so defensive, and stop twisting what I say,  It just isnt right. I never said any program would be right at all, in fact I said very much to the contrary.

I know you dont like me RTP, but it doesnt mean we cant try and have understanding.  Im sorry you feel like I support the program.  Maybe I should write 100 times, "I dont support Straight" and we can have this conversation again.

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-18 13:32:00, Carmel wrote:

How can it be if you are in a home where you are beaten or molested or neglected? Are you saying that an intervention on behalf of someone going through these things is Stepcultism? How can that be? Truly, how can it?

No, I don't think he said that. I think he said it's the same bogus deadinsaneorinjail apologia favored by stepcraft practitioners everywhere. It's not unique to them, however. Brother Roloff's worshipers use the same schtick. So do the Mormons. And, interestingly, so do the scammers in the Haitian/Dominican mountains who call themselves Voodoo Masters. So do the Clams, so do some Catholics. Proof, once again, that a million people or more can, indeed, all be in agreement and still completely wrong.

So you're fucked up parents wanted to help you? No, doesn't sound like it. Sounds to me asif you were responding with reasonably normal, healthy outrage and rebellion to being treated poorly. That's what they were trying to fix. That's the problem that the troubled parent industry exists to address. If you had been born a decade or so later, you might have been tagged Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Had you been born a century or more earlier, Draptomania. Still would have been bullshit.

You are an asshole, however. But that's what I like about you.

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
--Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous

[webcrawler]

Shit, it's my parents that needed the intervention!

[Anonymous]

Sure I needed rehab, I smoked dope 3 times in a 2 years. Maybe only Miller could save me? I'll be at his bankruptcy trail in Nov..