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Offline AtomicAnt

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2070 on: January 02, 2007, 11:29:03 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""exhausted""
What's wrong with going to AA?

Providing it means the same there as it does here - AA has helped many many 'hopeless' alcoholics become recovering alcoholics rather than dead people

You forget that AA only helps as many people as doing nothing does - 5%.

Know how we know this?

AA themselves said so!  :rofl:

They do absolutely nothing except what doing nothing does, so why do it? Furthermore, they seem to just make people make excuses about how helpless they are wah wah wah. Oh WOE IS ME, but I have LIFESKILLS!!!


I once dated a girl that wanted me to attend ACOA (adult children of alcoholics) meetings with her. What a bunch of whiny crybabies! Even she said so. She was not in any way an alcoholic, but she liked attending AA meetings better than ACOA meetings because, in her words, "At least the AAers are trying to change something. The ACOAers are just whining about how fucked up they are due to someone elses addiction."

Did you know there is a Clutterer's Anonymous? Yes there is. I swear. I know someone who attended meetings and had their 12 steps cluttering the front of her fridge.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2071 on: January 02, 2007, 11:30:18 PM »
And then there's the people who go online to whine about the whiners. What shall we call them?
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Offline try another castle

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2072 on: January 02, 2007, 11:32:12 PM »
I love that term: "adult child". WTF is an adult child? What you said: someone who doesn't have the balls to grow the fuck up.

Strangers with Candy did a great spoof on ACOA. It was fucking priceless.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2073 on: January 02, 2007, 11:35:19 PM »
No matter your age you are always your parents children. I guess they could have named themselves MPAA (My Parents are Alcoholics).
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Offline try another castle

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2074 on: January 02, 2007, 11:40:30 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
No matter your age you are always your parents children. I guess they could have named themselves MPAA (My Parents are Alcoholics).


No, I'm not my parents' child. I'm their son.
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Offline Karass

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2075 on: January 03, 2007, 12:36:20 AM »
Well, since this thread has taken a million turns that have nothing to do with CB or SN, I'd like to add:

My favorite 12-step T-shirt:

"I only attend meetings to meet drunk sluts"

And something personal:

Some of my dad's best friends were drinking buddies he met at AA. That doesn't make them "bad" -- they truly were friends (just not always sober ones).

And today would've been his 70th birthday if he hadn't burned the candle at both ends. I miss you man...
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Like its politicians and its wars, society has the teenagers it deserves. -- J.B. Priestley

Offline Karass

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2076 on: January 03, 2007, 12:59:33 AM »
"I found purpose in the 12-step programs the rehab introduced me to. Today, I have some problems with the way many treatment centers force 12-step ideology on people. I know that there are many whom it doesn't help -- and in this book, we offer a variety of options for recovery. For me, however, at that time, it did the trick. In the 12-step fellowships, I found that I could make friends without having to give them drugs and that I could be loved for who I was without being rich or famous."

-- Maia Szalavitz, "Recovery Options"

The 12 step methodology may be bogus and may be no more effective than doing nothing, but outside of The Programs, at least it's not coercive. It provides an opportunity to make new friends who are going through the same kind of shit you are. Sometimes they might talk you out of doing something really stupid. Sometimes they might just be a shoulder to cry on. And sometimes they will even sit with you at a bar (whether they join you in partaking or not) and just be there for you to talk to when your life is all fucked up. And sometimes when you just say "aw fuck it, I need a serious buzz," they just might join you.

It ain't therapy, it's friendship. Sometimes that really helps...sometimes more than the therapists with their fancy degrees.
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Like its politicians and its wars, society has the teenagers it deserves. -- J.B. Priestley

Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2077 on: January 03, 2007, 01:24:47 AM »
Yes, it can be helpful if you view it purely as a social club and you're not ordered or coerced in any way.  A place to hang out with others that aren't drinking.  But to give it anything beyond that is dangerous.  The steps are dangerous, sponsors are dangerous, the Big Book, 12 and 12.....all of it.  It teaches people that they're powerless.  It teaches them that "self" and ego are bad things.  It tells them that if they don't 'keep coming back' they're 'signing their own death warrants'.  Self fulfilling prophecies.  Not to mention the billions of tax dollars that are funding 12 step based programs.  Actually court ordering people isn't the only way they're coerced either.  AA has become so widely accepted as the only or premiere form of treatment that even disagreeing with it's methods can hurt you in a DUI, child custody or other legal actions.  Then there's the family pressure on someone with a drinking problem to go to AA or NA or CA or whatever.  Hell, they've even gone so far as to create an Adult GRANDchildren of Alcoholics :roll:

AA is nothing more than a cult that preys on vulnerable people.  Same as the TT industry, and make no mistake....AA is an industry.

http://www.orange-papers.org/
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Offline 69

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2078 on: January 03, 2007, 01:59:19 AM »
Quote
Hell, they've even gone so far as to create an Adult GRANDchildren of Alcoholics  


 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

I laughed for about five minutes after reading that.

Good to see he got his site back up.
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Offline try another castle

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2079 on: January 03, 2007, 02:23:53 AM »
Quote
Sometimes they might talk you out of doing something really stupid. Sometimes they might just be a shoulder to cry on. And sometimes they will even sit with you at a bar (whether they join you in partaking or not) and just be there for you to talk to when your life is all fucked up. And sometimes when you just say "aw fuck it, I need a serious buzz," they just might join you.

Sometimes they also hook you up with junk so pure that it kills you. Granted, she wanted to go, but her drug of choice before 12 step was speed, she had no idea how to score heroin. So how did she find some, after being clean in 12 step for ten years?

It was her choice, but I know where she scored it from.

Quote
Your desire for ?support? is nothing more, and nothing less, than a plan to get loaded in the absence of support.

- Jack Trimpey, Rational Recovery


Thanks for the link to orange-papers.org, anon. I'd never been there before. Much more comprehensive than rational.org. (And it's free.) Trimpey's selling a 4 DVD set for 230 bucks! "Dude, I just spent all of my money on dope, I can't afford that!"

Jack, Jack, Jack, I realize you gotta cover costs and all, but come on, buddy, really. We're druggies, here. It can't possibly cost that much to press 4 DVDs of you talking about the beast coming back. That fucker better have some sweet special features.

Anyway, yeah, this is more irrelevant, non-thread-related shit, but I just had to add, as usual.
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Offline try another castle

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2080 on: January 03, 2007, 02:37:35 AM »
haha. I just discovered a fornits easter egg. I can't believe it took me this long to find it.

you need = I want you

Very funny. Brilliant! I thought I was going nuts at first.

(wonders if there are any more.) hmmmmm.
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Offline 69

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2081 on: January 03, 2007, 02:49:13 AM »
I think the biggest danger of AA meetings is lung cancer. Not a lot of old timers left who spent a lot of time outside...  :(
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Offline try another castle

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2082 on: January 03, 2007, 02:55:07 AM »
That's what TA is for.  :P  (Tobacco Anonymous.)

They really should just mash all of it together into one thing, and call it Everything Anonymous. Much easier than having to go to 5 different groups for your 5 different habits.

Step one: We admitted we were powerless over everything.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2083 on: January 03, 2007, 02:57:33 AM »
Quote from: ""Tri Combs""
I think the biggest danger of AA meetings is lung cancer. Not a lot of old timers left who spent a lot of time outside...  :(

 :smokin:  ::bwahaha::  True.

Quote from: ""Castle""
Thanks for the link to orange-papers.org, anon. I'd never been there before. Much more comprehensive than rational.org. (And it's free.) Trimpey's selling a 4 DVD set for 230 bucks! "Dude, I just spent all of my money on dope, I can't afford that!"


No problem.  I've thrown his link up so many times I figured everyone was sick of it by now.  PIck any spot in his "letters" section and read.  His hate mail is hilarious.  He's got a section for the Teen industry too.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html

He gives props to Jack and a few others too.  Great guy and his site has been an invaluable resource for me.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #2084 on: January 03, 2007, 03:09:13 AM »
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