Carlbrook

[69]

Much easier than having to go to 5 different groups for your 5 different habits.

I'm up to eight...

Alcoholics Anonymous
Narcotics Anonymous
Cocaine Anonymous
Marijuana Anonymous
Gamblers Anonymous
Sex Addicts Anonymous
Overeaters Anonymous
Tobacco Anonymous

[Anonymous]

To be fair and return the thread...

http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 771#235771

Damn!  Double posted, the first one said it didn't go through but apparently did

http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20182

[exhausted]

I didn't realise it was compulsory there....in the UK AA is a choice as to wether you go or not, maybe that's why it is so successful here, people go because they want to do something about their problem rather than being forced

It is so true that no one can begin to heal until they are ready to heal & admit there's a problem, forcing anyone is ridiculous, they'll just go through the motions without actually doing anything about it - which in turn imo, will make them wary of attending such meetings when they are ready

[Anonymous]

I didn't realise it was compulsory there....in the UK AA is a choice as to wether you go or not, maybe that's why it is so successful here, people go because they want to do something about their problem rather than being forced

It is so true that no one can begin to heal until they are ready to heal & admit there's a problem, forcing anyone is ridiculous, they'll just go through the motions without actually doing anything about it - which in turn imo, will make them wary of attending such meetings when they are ready

The only way that AA is benign is if it is treated as nothing more than a social group.  No steps, no sponsors, no Big Book.  Go read the Orange Papers site.  It really is quite illuminating.

[Oz girl]

I have read the orange papers article. I dont see what all the fuss is about/ Like Exhausted I am from a country where people only pursue this sort of thing on a voluntary basis. While i take the point that it can prolly be a little cultic at times so are lots of things- Some religious faiths, amway, undergraduate vegetarians. If adults make the choice to give up the grog for a new addiction, then all power to them.

The key difference in my mind is when this sort of thing is forced on kids who have no choice. particularly when they have had not medical diagnosis.

[Anne Bonney]

Let's move this out of the Carlbrook thread.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20182



Did you read Valliant's report?  He's the AA Board of Trustees member who found that AA actually increased the death rate of alcoholics.  I believe the word he used was appalling.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-eff ... ant_deaths

The coercion isn't just through the court system.  It's so ingrained and accepted as pretty much the ONLY game in town that medical professionals refer to AA, treatment centers use the 12 Steps and suggest attendance to AA for aftercare.  AA tells these people day in and day out that they'll relapse and die if they stop coming to meetings.  Sponsors have an inordinate amount of control over their charges.  Marriages have broken up because the non-alcoholic spouse rejects AA's teachings and the sponsor tells the newcomer that the wife has now become "toxic" to his recovery.  Children end up estranged from parents for the same reason.  AA believes that the steps are the solution to all.  Many sponsors have told sponsees to discontinue medication saying that it "interferes with their recovery".   It's not just the flaky, benign little support group you'd think from how they describe themselves and are obviously perceived.

[Anonymous]

This is Karen's son. I just wanted to say that I wouldn't be where I am at today without wilderness therapy and Carlbrook. I was lost, but now I am found. I was going to be dead or in jail, but now I am a successful young man. I know a lot of you disagree with me and want to debate my mother. She tells me all about you guys and this forum and considers you her closest friends. I felt obligated to post my feelings since this forum means so much to her. She always talks about someone called Gookie and says he is titillating. My spirit counselor named bird gave me this poem and I will keep it forever close to my heart. I think you all should read this with an open heart because it changed my life.

One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord.
Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.
In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand.
Sometimes there were two sets of footprints,
other times there were one set of footprints.

This bothered me because I noticed
that during the low periods of my life,
when I was suffering from
anguish, sorrow or defeat,
I could see only one set of footprints.

So I said to the Lord,
?You promised me Lord,
that if I followed you,
you would walk with me always.
But I have noticed that during the most trying periods of my life
there have only been one set of footprints in the sand.
Why, when I needed you most, you have not been there for me??

The Lord replied,
?The times when you have seen only one set of footprints in the sand,is when I carried you.?

[Troll Control]

Where's that Troll-o-Meter???

[Anonymous]

In your ass?

[Anonymous]

I didn't intend to post here again, but I hear the summons.

[troll8]

[Anne Bonney]

Ok, on the off chance that you are who you say you are.....and the even more remote possibility that you're willing to discuss and debate this...

How did this miraculous change occur?  Specifically.  What are the treatment methods used?  Specifically.  What do you say about the stories of psychological and emotional abuse?  The lack of education provided?

I won't hold my breath.

[psy]

Ok, on the off chance that you are who you say you are.....and the even more remote possibility that you're willing to discuss and debate this...

How did this miraculous change occur?  Specifically.  What are the treatment methods used?  Specifically.  What do you say about the stories of psychological and emotional abuse?  The lack of education provided?

I won't hold my breath.

It ain't him.  Karen's kid hated Carlbrook.  Ignore the troll...

[Anonymous]

Don't do stuff like that or Karen won't come back!!!!   ::bangin::

We need her to listen!!

[Anonymous]

To the parent who sent me a PM- please send your e-mail again, I did know your son.  To the other person who went to Carlbrook on this forum- I don't know how you could've sat through a group and call that peer support.  15 people all yelling at their best friends about how their life is going downhill because they repeatedly don't tuck in their shirt.  Somehow this is brought up as a symptom of the greater problem, a teenager's non-conformity with a belief system that they just don't happen to believe in.  Having your best friends take your most personal things and throw them out at you in front of 15 people is supportive?  Getting yelled at more because of the simple fact that you don't feel like crying?  I witnessed that bullshit as well as being involved in it.  If you have a problem with someone or something that they're doing, how about you be the strong individual that Carlbrook speaks so much about and confront the person yourself?  When I even said something discounting the crazed group mentality, the bite of the beast would turn on me.  They would ask why I was so defiant, why I wasn't helping them "rail" this person, how I obviously didn't care.  Tough Love?  I'm sorry, I didn't know that you show love to people by betraying their trust.  I wasn't aware that saying the most fucked up things you could ever say to somebody shows that you love them that much more.  Any of you readers who have never experienced a Group Therapy session, I suggest you read Ken Kesey's One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest.  It's about as accurate a representation as you will ever find on how ridiculous these sessions are.  Under the guise of creating a stronger individual, they strip you of your individuality, making you conform to what they want.  Start thinking for yourself and stop repeating the mantras that have been embedded in your heads.  You work harder to sell the institution than they do.  Who are you trying to prove that it's good to?  Why do you care what a bunch of people on a message board that's mostly anti-RTC have to say?  If you don't weigh both sides of the equation, you can't give an honest opinion.[ This Message was edited by: Carlbrook Graduate on 2006-02-07 04:00 ]

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#171151

It's funny how most of the things being brought up in this forum are things I myself brought up while at Carlbrook... to parents who may send your children to these schools, I challenge you to take the time to do the research on the negative aspects of these programs.  The workshops they use (another name for LGAT) have no long-term psychological benefit.  In fact, many LGATs have induced psychotic breakdowns.  They try to piss you off as much as possible, then make you break down and cry.  They are a school.  They make large sums of money.  Do the math.  There are over 100 kids at this school.  Each student pays over 100,000 for a 16 month program.  Many great regular boarding schools charge this much for about 4 years of school.  The average staff member does not make a lot of money.  When I was there, they crammed 5 people in a dorm room originally meant for 2 people, yet continued to state that they weren't about the money.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#167519

Ha.  You don't think I went to Carlbrook?  Ask me anything you wish kind sir.  Integritas, Amicitia, Animus, Teneo, Veneratio?  Who's your hero?  What about your truth?  Or how about your superhero?  No, I know, what's your lie?  What about your nightmare?  How about you go do some bioenergetics?  Go listen to your fucking Mike and the Mechanics, or do you not remember the song it's not easy?  I don't know who you are and I honestly don't care.  I speak from my experiences and I don't speak for anybody but myself.  I say what I saw with my eyes during my incarceration.  Yes, I said incarceration.  What else do you call a place that the staff is able to withhold and monitor all your communications with family and friends?  Where you are monitored by security at night and every window and door has an alarm?  Don't try to discredit me because you can't believe the truth.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#169457

I understand what selfish parent is saying, but I disagree.  Personally, I loved the wilderness.  I was told I should've graduated within 4 weeks but my parents didn't decide what they wanted me to do, so I was out there for close to 2 months.  Honestly, something like that was good for me.  I made a lot of changes.  2 months away from what I was doing was great for me.  Not 2 years.  You don't know whether or not your child would've grown out of it within 2 years.  A lot of the people who went through there still haven't changed a bit.  Is the failure or success a reflection on the program or is it a reflection on their maturation process?  You have to want to change no matter where you are, whether it's a rehab or therapeutic boarding school.  Eventually you're going to realize you want to change or you don't.  If you do, you make the effort to do so yourself.  You make all the changes yourself.  You make all the choices. BTW, I know a lot of families who were forced to sell their houses in order to send their children to Carlbrook.  Don't you think that if they really cared for the well-being of the students and their families they'd have a financial aid program?  How can a company claim to, and in the words of many Carlbrook staff, "be in the business of helping people" and then tell a family they need to come up with the money no matter what the cost to their lives?[ This Message was edited by: Carlbrook Graduate on 2006-02-02 23:43 ]

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#169639

What happened to this forum?  I used to come here to actually talk to people and give them my personal experiences with this school as well having a place to maybe get something done.  Everyone has gotten carried away with the whole Karen bullshit and you can't find anything of value without sifting through pages of incoherent posts rambling on about this parent named Karen.  As someone who takes 2 seconds to actually think about the situation, I can't believe that people are still carrying on with this after 4-5 months.  Let's get back on track and actually give people who want to know about Carlbrook a chance to find out.  The truth from people who've been there, people who both love and hate it.  If not, maybe someone should start a moderated forum somewhere else.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#197658

[Anonymous]

what a disappointing web thread =(



i am an alumni of the Carlbrook School.  I graduated almost two months ago in December of 2005, with the Omicron peer class.  i haven't read through this whole thing but it seems like people are debating whether the school can help people or whether it is an abusive lockdown that engages in brainwashing and deceit.  the people posting don't sound incredibly open-minded and it feels like people are writing more to take stabs at each other than to actually try to understand the situation, so i'm not sure there's really anything i can write on this page that will be heard.  I respect people like Rico (who is a close friend of mine) who have tried to share their experiences on this page.

    so why am I writing this.  i would rather not get tangled up in this argument, but if anyone out there would like to talk about Carlbrook and hear the opinion of one person, I would be more than willing to share my story.  You can contact me via AIM at screenname dangerousdave or via email at dangerousdave@aol.com.

I hope you find what you are looking for.



David Korn

December 2005 Carlbrook Alumni