Carlbrook

[Nihilanthic]

Really? I thought she went in for a cranio-rectal displasia procedure.

[Anonymous]

Well there WAS that... we all knew that...

[Nihilanthic]

Yeah, seems like it took a few months to complete.

[Anonymous]

You'd think it would be an easy switch?  

[Nihilanthic]

Hey. You.

To the shed. Now.  :roll:

Will they EVER learn?

[Anonymous]

Would Karen's ass be worthy of a good ass-whoopin'?  :rofl:

[Nihilanthic]

I'm not even gonna touch THAT one  

[Anonymous]

I think Karen could use a good ol' fashioned bullwhipping.  ::hehehmm::

[psy]

the young fuckups with "7 days of training" (to quote TSW) -- than he did with the licensed therapists. Even though the 12-steps may be bogus, I do think there is some value in addicts helping other addicts.

Experience can compliment, but is no substitute for qualification.  For all the "wisdom" these fuck-ups learned in their drug-addled existence, they generally have an equal compliment of problems.  Without knowledge of or training in psychology, these staff members can wreak a lot of havoc on kid's psyches without a clue of the lasting damage they are causing.

The staff at SN seem to have degrees, but their prior jobs at Aspen schools make me wonder as to what else they might have been incorporating into their "treatment" of the kids.

[psy]

But it is not as if either wilderness or TBS is morally pure on this score given the amount of profit it makes from families in crisis. A reasonably smart kid must be able to figure this out.

That is precisely what made me snap out of the brainwashing.  I was like "Wait.... you want me to be moral and honest and...  hmmm...  something doesn't fit here..."

[Anonymous]

I think Karen could use a good ol' fashioned bullwhipping.  ::hehehmm::

Oooohhh I'm getting hot just thinking about it...  ::bwahaha2::

[psy]

Yeah.  TSW.  You're right.  It creeps me out.

In contrast to standard outpatient therapy, people experience the wilderness as if it were a dream - as an unconsidered experience full of unusual visceral stimuli and habitual reaction. Experiential therapy moves a step beyond Cognitive-Behavioral methods by circumventing conscious resistance.

Big big big big red flag.  "circumventing conscious resistance"!??!?!?!  Anybody else care to explain what this means.   ::puke::

In brief.  It means: influencing your kid at an other than conscious level.

Later, the past is laid before the individual as a metaphor for safe reflection and evaluation. This treatment method works exceedingly well with ?guarded? or cynical students because the environment requires interaction and supports existing strengths while strengthening weaknesses.

In other words: We can brainwash your kid no matter how well guarded he is.

This is thought reform people.  NOT therapy.  If it "works" it's still unethical.

Btw Karen.  You never did answer this question:  What would you consider to be unethical means of coercion?

[try another castle]

Alot of parents find that they can scam their insurance companies into paying for a "treatment" program like Second Nature or SUWS so they can fuck off to Europe on vacation.

Yup. That was my dad. 2.5 years at $3K+ a month. Have no idea how he managed to pull that one off, but he's good at finding loopholes, since he's a lawyer. Got out of having to go to Vietnam, too, despite being a Westpointer.

Any program that has a manditory 12 step program shows a huge red flag

Absolutely, especially, since as you said, that even if someone is court ordered to attend 12 step, they are not required to participate. However, if it is part of a  program, it is hardly consentual, like it is in the public sector. I would venture to say that this is even the case for adults who are sentenced  to a rehab facility that uses 12 step over jail. In that environment, there is a certain level of requiring to comply before you will be released. (but not as much as a program, I would think.) Fortunately, a lot of rehabs, from what I've heard, are moving away from the 12 step model. One of the biggest issues with me regarding 12 step is the religion. Even though the general understanding of "god" is flexible, it's still there. You can't move beyond the second step without it. You are required to believe in god, or at least a god. That's bullshit.

I mean, look, it's one thing if someone decides to check themselves in, ok? But if someone is sent to a 12 step facility by the courts, then fuck yeah, I have a problem with it. I mentioned in another thread about how there were a couple of people I knew who decided to take the jail term over rehab, because they knew they were going to have to deal with 12 step in a residential setting if they didn't.

I'm also not exactly sure who thought it was such a brilliant idea to stick a bunch of junkies and drunks together and assume that they would be good at keeping each other sober. (Bill W., I'm assuming.) Not like it's another person's job to help keep someone sober, anyway. It's nobody's fucking business. That's the other problem with 12 step, and the TC industry as a whole.

[try another castle]

I'm also not exactly sure who thought it was such a brilliant idea to stick a bunch of junkies and drunks together and assume that they would be good at keeping each other sober. (Bill W., I'm assuming.) Not like it's another person's job to help keep someone sober, anyway. It's nobody's fucking business. That's the other problem with 12 step, and the TC industry as a whole.

biopychosocial model synanon should be a good keyword search for you to do.

I believe this model is mirrored at Second nature.


*edited due to excessive beer consumption. Fuck I love my days off.

Right, but didnt AA precede synanon?

[exhausted]

What's wrong with going to AA?

Providing it means the same there as it does here - AA has helped many many 'hopeless' alcoholics become recovering alcoholics rather than dead people