Carlbrook

[exhausted]

Well i don't need to really, I've had a lot to do with AA over the years & they've done a lot of good for those who want to help themselves

[psy]

Well i don't need to really, I've had a lot to do with AA over the years & they've done a lot of good for those who want to help themselves

key praise here: "those who want to help themselves"

AA works yes, but it should only be used as a last resort (even they say this).

Why?  Because you never are "cured" with AA, just "recovering".  It creates a dependency on a group rather than a drug.  It's less harmful arguably, but it's just a "healthy" substitute.

[Anonymous]

AA, NA, OA, MA, CA, GA, SA.. any im forgetting? (im sure i am)

So how many you been to?

[psy]

AA, NA, OA, MA, CA, GA, SA.. any im forgetting? (im sure i am)

So how many you been to?

Well at Benchmark we were forced to attend meetings regardless of whether we had substance issues or not.  We were encouraged, however, not to "share"....

Let's see.  I've been to AA, NA, CA (cocaine anonymous).  It's all the same shit though. All they do is change the word "alcohol" to whatever the issue is.  

The program staff were convinced... convinced...  that anything at all could be cured with the twelve steps.  ADHD, anxiety, depression, cutting, anything.. all you had to do was give in to the program... *tick* give *tock* into *tick* the *tock* program *tick*... etc...  

I think most people on this site would not be so anti-AA if they knew what the actual meetings were like.  There is a big big difference between AA and synanon/cedu/est/lifespring/wwasp/generic mindfuck...

That being said, if i were a smack/coke/meth addict, given a choice between AA, and death, I would choose death.  Call me a control freak but i don't like the idea of giving my autonomy over to a group or a sponsor.

[try another castle]

12 Steps To Hell: By Jim Goad

1. We admitted that our addictions were fucking us up.
2. Came to believe that since we started them, only we could stop them.
3. Made a decision to follow our gut instincts as we understood them.
4. Didn't bullshit ourselves about our many flaws.
5. Having admitted our flaws, we kept them to ourselves - they're nobody else's business.
6. Were entirely ready to argue with anyone who disagreed.
7. Filled with self-respect, we did nothing humbly.
8. Made a list of all the persons we had harmed and realized that most of them deserved it.
9. Paid all our police fines, then burned all our bridges.
10. Continued to be ruthlessly honest with ourselves and admitted all our wrongs - to ourselves.
11. Trusted ourselves and only ourselves with what's best for us.
12. Having assumed full responsibility for our lives, we weren't foolish enough to try to change everyone else - first, it's a losing proposition, and second, we couldn't care less.

What saved me (besides practical considerations) was the act of banishing from my mind the idea that I needed my addictions. That's all. I don't need alcohol, I don't  need dope, I don't need other's support, and I sure as fuck don't need a goddamned chip!

- Jim Goad


Look, if someone voluntarily goes to 12 step, and it works for them, fine, great, good for them. My issue is when it is forced on someone via a program, or through court-ordered residential treatment.

I think most people on this site would not be so anti-AA if they knew what the actual meetings were like. There is a big big difference between AA and synanon/cedu/est/lifespring/wwasp/generic mindfuck...

I've been in 12 step, too, and I agree. It's like apples and oldsmobiles. I'm not anti-AA as much as I am simply an advocate of the fact that someone's decision to use or not use drugs or alcohol is nobody else's fucking business. Well... I am anti-bullshit, so I guess if that makes me anti 12 step... so be it.

[Anonymous]

That being said, if i were a smack/coke/meth addict, given a choice between AA, and death, I would choose death. Call me a control freak but i don't like the idea of giving my autonomy over to a group or a sponsor.

It's just an informal meeting, nothing signed, charged or expected of attendees. If people don't have anything to lose they are willing to try anything. Sometimes all they need is a new friend.

[Anonymous]

AA is a bunch of collective fruitcakes, but they can't force you to sit through an entire meeting.

You gotta go high or drunk for meetings to make any sense.

[Anonymous]

I personally am completely against the 12 step system in programs. It is another fraud perpetuated by the TBS program to bilk well meaning people out their money and even more precious time with their children. Any program that has a manditory 12 step program shows a huge red flag. It avoids the responsibility of hiring appropriately trained and qualified drug and alcohol counselors.

It's so deeply entrenched in this industry, it's not going away any time soon. Every treatment center uses the 12 step model, from psychiatric hospitals all the way down to wilderness programs. Everyone is an addict, get with it already man. We are diseased!

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have any links to first person reports by former students reporting abuse or negative experiences at SNWP or Carlbrook? Thanks.

[hanzomon4]

I Doubt that you'll find any reports regarding carlbrook or second nature. However that does not mean that the two programs are safe. The best thing for you to do in any absents of reports is to compare the program to other abusive programs. Here's a link to 10 good questions to ask any program that you're considering getting involved with. In this thread you can find opinions of program survivors on the two programs. I think that most agree that both programs use thought reform tactics which are abusive, but I encourage you to ask any questions that you have so that you can make up your own mind.

P.S. Don't be shy, setup a user account  

[try another castle]

Does anyone have any links to first person reports by former students reporting abuse or negative experiences at SNWP or Carlbrook? Thanks.

Can't give you that specifically, since I never went, but earlier in this thread (much earlier) there was talk about where some of the Carlbrook staff have come from. Tim Brace is dean of students. He used to work for CEDU. I knew him. He was headmaster when I was there. Not someone I would trust around any kid of mine. Due to the fact that he worked for a cult disguised as a school, if he condones and approves of the kind of "treatment" that is going on at Carlbrook, then that is a huge red flag. It probably jibes with his sensibilities and his severe lack of understanding regarding therapy.

Also, interesting excerpt from a review on Szalavitz's book, (thanks, hanz, for the link.)

Reviewed by  Steve K. D. Eichel, Ph.D., ABPP

 
There is a strong tendency for each older generation to look back at its own adolescence with a mixture of nostalgia and embarrassment, and at each new generation of teens with a combination of fear, disdain and jealousy. Whether we consider the flappers of the 1920s, the beats, protesters and hippies of the ?50s and ?60s, the punks and stoners of the ?70s and ?80s, or the slackers of the ?90s, every generation?s parents insist they have the most ill-mannered, lazy, rebellious, promiscuous, drunken or drug-ridden teenagers ever. And as surely as these teens grow up and have children, they invariably give rise to the next really worst crop of teens, who grow up and birth the truly worst teenagers, and on and on. Just as every new century heralds the apocalypse, every fresh crop of teenagers serves as the harbingers of the fall of Western civilization.

The 1980s saw a dramatic shift in the American zeitgeist. Former hippies and radicals were clamoring to join the same middle class they once abhorred. Having lost faith in big federal social programs, government bureaucracies, and "bleeding heart" psychotherapies, they seemed to welcome an invigorated free market that moved quickly to satisfy their increasing need for quick answers and strong responses to difficult social and family problems like sexual experimentation and drug abuse. If the first half of the 20th century had its juvenile courts, social workers, and Boys Towns, the second half, and especially the last quarter, would have its own set of ?cures? for the common teenager: the ?therapeutic? boot camp and wilderness programs. These programs claimed nearly miraculous effectiveness with the most difficult and destructive adolescent behaviors. By mixing techniques liberally taken from the human-potential movement with old fashioned ?tough love,? they appealed to a generation of parents that came of age in the ?60s but were no longer enamored with free love, mind-expanding drugs, or permissive parenting.

Nice contextualizing, there. (Are you listening, Karen?)

[Anonymous]

What's wrong with going to AA?

Providing it means the same there as it does here - AA has helped many many 'hopeless' alcoholics become recovering alcoholics rather than dead people

You forget that AA only helps as many people as doing nothing does - 5%.

Know how we know this?

AA themselves said so!  :rofl:

They do absolutely nothing except what doing nothing does, so why do it? Furthermore, they seem to just make people make excuses about how helpless they are wah wah wah. Oh WOE IS ME, but I have LIFESKILLS!!!

[Deborah]

Does anyone have any links to first person reports by former students reporting abuse or negative experiences at SNWP or Carlbrook? Thanks.

Search this site.

[psy]

Does anyone have any links to first person reports by former students reporting abuse or negative experiences at SNWP or Carlbrook? Thanks.

Search this site.

Better yet  go to google and type in the following search:

Code: [Select]

Carlbrook site:fornits.com
"Second Nature" OR "2N" OR "SNWP" site:fornits.com
if you use "site:fornits.com" after your google search terms you'll find what you want and it won't stress our the Fornits server (slows the whole site down when somebody uses search).  Keep in mind Google's cache of fornits is usually a few days behind though so if it's brand new info you are looking for you will only find it using the search here.[/code]

[Ganja]

AA is a bunch of collective fruitcakes, but they can't force you to sit through an entire meeting.

You gotta go high or drunk for meetings to make any sense.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl: