Illegal for Parents to Snoop on the Kid's Phone Conversation

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-16 03:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You only doing that thing that kids do, that i told all of you about. They try to get at a person by pushing thier buttons. But niles i am beyond you and your immature mentality.I had another job and was recruited to do this one, I have never been without a job since I was 18. I have been working longer than you have been alive. So nice try. I hve had 2 other jobs where i worked for a company 7 years at a time. So nice try young one. I think i'll push your buttons now, I am leaving for a job, see ya later niles. Get more than a speech therapist, get a real one. If only you really knew.

 The one who cares"

Huh??? Your posts are getting more and more difficult to decipher.

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-16 03:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

 I hve had 2 other jobs where i worked for a company 7 years at a time.

 The one who cares"

Just out of curiosity, what kind of jobs were those?

Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd and bloody religion that has ever infected the world.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright

[Nihilanthic]

"You only doing that thing that kids do, that i told all of you about. They try to get at a person by pushing thier buttons. But niles i am beyond you and your immature mentality"

"So nice try young one. I think i'll push your buttons now, I am leaving for a job, see ya later niles. Get more than a speech therapist, get a real one. If only you really knew. "

Jesus christ dude, all I have to do is seperate your rambling posts to make you look stupid now. You take all the fun out of it :sad:

The lust for power, for dominating others, inflames the heart more than any other passion
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140440607/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Tacitus

[Anonymous]

Because i might not double check and spell check what i write and the fact i was not the best in english in school, does not make me stupid, as i said i have a degree, and it's not in english as you know. See when you feel deafeted niles, you stoop low to insulting people. Thinking that it will piss them off. I don't get mad at your immature ramblings. Ginger if you must know I worked in a resaurant doing everything from waiter to manager to cook. I did this while going to school. At the same time started working as a volunteer with kids at a YMCA where i had gone to as a kid. Then up until last year woked at another YMCA doing everything from After school program, summer camp coach, sports specialist all with kids 5-17 boys and girls.
I only stopped doing it last year, because i was now doing my current job and working just a day or 2 a week for the Y.But i found this job was making me miss the Y too often, so i decided to just do this one and left the Y. I hope your curiosity as been satisfied now Ginger. My job went very well yesterday, the boy kind of knew he needed some help and a change of enviorment. We had some good talks I told him as much as i know about the school he was going to, and he watched a DVD with my partner. I got a rare hug and thank you goodbye. I know you will now say, but he won't be thanking me in a day. But i do tell these kids that it will be very hard at first and i don't lie to them at all. Sure i don't know all the rules, but i told him that also. Most transporters lie to them and tell them very little about what is happening. I also know that whatever I say I am still the evil one to you guys.I just thought i would share how a job goes for me more often than not.
  The one who cares

[Anonymous]

I think it's better that you're nice to the kids than  if you were horrible to the kids, of course.

I wish you would insist that the kids you transport *at least* be either kids who know they are going and agree to go *or* kids who have had a psychiatrist who has seen them recommend that they go and approve sending that kid to that specific school *or* kids with multiple arrests on a rap sheet (or one really serious arrest), *or* kids with multiple failed drug tests.

If you had some criteria for the jobs you would accept to screen out inappropriate admissions, since nobody *else* is screening out inappropriate admissions, I think people would be at least *somewhat* less hostile to you.

Can't you see why *any* rational person would be concerned that some of these kids are getting sent off for truly trivial reasons?

I personally know a kid that happened to.  She's out of the program and in college now.  In her case, her mom and stepdad are complete and total flakes and serial child neglecters to boot.  They would do things like tell her with absolutely no advance notice and no plans for her care that they were taking off on business trips in different directions to be out of town for as much as a week and she needed to "find someplace to stay."  They pulled that stunt *multiple* times.  Her mere *presence* was a major inconvenience in their high-power corporate jet-setting lives.  (I had that information from the friend whose family frequently took her in when her parents pretty much just ran off and abandoned her.)

Unfortunately, it's *not* rare that the parents are flakes and the kid's a basically normal teen who would do just fine and dandy in foster care.  Okay, foster care sucks compared to a real, loving family.  There are plenty of kids going to programs because the parents are flakes and want to pretend it's the normal kid that's the problem, not *them*.  And in those cases, the kid would do better in foster care than in some program.

Yes, there are problems that require residential care.  Yes, there are places that provide quality residential care and only accept kids with the kind of problems they specialize in treating and who genuinely need residential care.

But nobody is looking out for the kids being inappropriately placed.  Including you.

"Caring" without right action is empty sentiment.

If you had, or have, standards for which kids you will and won't escort, that screens out kids being inappropriately placed, I think a lot of people still might not like what you do, but would have at least a little more respect for you.

My problem with you is that you seem to presume that if you are called, the kid automatically really does need to be in involuntary residential treatment.  Or that it's automatically okay to put any old kid in residential treatment.

My problem with you is you're coming across as irresponsible in accepting cases for transport and as if you expect your good intentions to substitute for good behavior.

Sometimes people do horrible things to others in the name of "caring".  Caring is not enough.

What I find objectionable about your behavior is that you appear to take no concrete action to assure that in each case your behavior in delivering kid to program is not making you an accomplice before the fact to actual harm to that child.

If you *do* take action to weed out cases where doing what you do is liable to harm the kid, then I'd like to hear about it.  If you just take somebody's word for it with no standards, then to me that comes across as depraved indifference as to whether or not you are, in specific individual cases, enabling child abuse and neglect.

So anyway, not knowing whether you do, or don't, have specific ethical standards for jobs you will accept and jobs you will reject, and whether those standards are adequate or not, is why I'm very ambivalent about you.

Timoclea

[Antigen]

Timoclea nails it

On 2005-01-18 09:27:00, Anonymous wrote:


If you *do* take action to weed out cases where doing what you do is liable to harm the kid, then I'd like to hear about it. If you just take somebody's word for it with no standards, then to me that comes across as depraved indifference as to whether or not you are, in specific individual cases, enabling child abuse and neglect.

Here's a comparison. Somewhere in Mississippi some years ago, the corps of a dark complected young man was found washed up on the bank of a smallish river. This corpse had heavy steel chain wrapped around the torso and shoulders.

Now, some people might suspect foul play in that scenareo. But we're talking Mississippi a couple of decades ago. So they just assumed it was a tragic accidental death that occured during the attempted theft of a length of heavy chain.

How `bout you, OWC? If a kid's bones were found in the desert not far from one of these remote "therapeutic" boarding schools to which you deliver unwilling participants, would you even suspect anything amiss? Or would you just write it off as another complicated suicide by exposure?

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin

[Anonymous]

Do you mean if i take the parents word for it,
When you say Somebody's word for it? The one who cares

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-18 17:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Do you mean if i take the parents word for it,

When you say Somebody's word for it? The one who cares"

Parents have a conflict of interest.  Maybe there's something wrong with *them* that is making the home situation with the teen unpleasant.

Parents aren't perfect.  I should know.  I am one.

Some parents do the very best they can for their children and genuinely look out for their kids' welfare.

Some parents' best sucks rocks.

Some parents are total flakes.

Some parents are selfish bastards.

Just taking the parents' word for it that a kid needs to be committed is negligent, IMAO.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry Tim I don't agree. The one who cares

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-19 04:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I'm sorry Tim I don't agree. The one who cares"

That's a cogent argument if ever there was one!  :roll:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-19 04:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I'm sorry Tim I don't agree. The one who cares"

Do you have any kids?  It sure sounds like you're speaking from a vast well of inexperience *personally* of parenting, day in and day out from babyhood.

As parents, one of the things I and my husband have had to get used to is constantly questioning our own decisions about discipline, rules, strategies, childcare, what responsibilities and privileges to allow at what age, education.  This isn't us being insecure people, it's just the nature of parenthood.  Everybody is winging it.  That's what parenthood *is*.

The people who are all fucked up and flaky don't automatically get issued godlike wisdom when they conceive a child---no more than we did when we conceived ours.

Any group of human beings is a mixed bag with some irresponsible folks, some sadistic folks, some selfish folks, some assholes, and some flakes in it.

Off my meds, I'd definitely count as one of the flakes.  Fortunately, my major in college (psychology), while it was damned useless from a career perspective, taught me enough about the human brain to understand why *I* needed to be practically fanatical about taking my meds and following my condition with a competent physician.

Parents who are irresponsible, sadistic, selfish, assholes, or flakes DO NOT necessarily have screwed up children.  A lot of times their kids have difficult adolescences, but the resilience of kids and the influence of other adults and kids in a kid's life means that very often these kids come to recognize how screwed up their parents are and take their parents bad points as a negative example.  A lot of times the screwiest parents turn up with kids that are better balanced than they are.  A lot of times it's because the kid has to be the responsible, sane grownup in the house at an early age and learns by trial and error to be a better person than his/her parents.

A lot of times the kid *doesn't* turn out so well, but it's not *at all* uncommon to have screwy parents and basically normal kids.

You "don't agree" that this situation can and does happen because it's personally a lot *easier* for you to bury your head in the sand and pretend that all parents who say their kid is bad are right.

It is also not at all uncommon for screwy people to do well financially.  I grew up in a slightly upper middle class neighborhood, and I live in one now.  My neighbors mostly *could* afford one of these schools if they really wanted the kid out of the house.  And putting the kid in one of these schools if the kid was just a pain in the butt and the parents were screwy would be more socially acceptable in our social class than kicking the kid out of the house.  Kicking the kid out of the house is so....working class. (I'm not being a snob, I just know the unwritten rules and class prejudices of my social set.)

So, basically, what you've admitted to me is you're negligent as hell and just pretending you're not by pretending that *all* parents who have the money and inclination to warehouse a kid to get him/her out of the house are sane and decent, and *all* kids being sent away by their parents are bad kids.

Well, around here, we pay a hell of a lot of tax money to DFACS (dept. of family and children's services) because that's just not so.  There are "nice" people in "nice" neighborhoods who are rotten parents and abuse and neglect their kids.  Social class is no innoculation against child abuse and neglect.

The existence of DFACS and the fact that they *do* investigate in "nice" neighborhoods and they *do* find abusive and neglectful parents with "nice" incomes *disproves* your "I disagree with you" hypothesis that all parents with the money to send a kid away are good parents.

You don't believe that because it's true.

You believe it because it's easy and convenient for *you* and because it lets meet your own eyes in the mirror each day.

Bluntly, you're admitting you're negligent.

I disapprove of your bad behavior.

You may not give a rip what I think, and that's your privilege.  But your protestations of how much you "care" are empty.  You *tell* yourself you care so you can pat yourself on the back, but you really *don't*.

If you "cared" so much, you'd have ethical standards about when *not* to believe the parents.

Your actions speak so loudly they drown out your words.

Timoclea

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-19 04:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I'm sorry Tim I don't agree. The one who cares"

Even if the parent in question is someone like David Koresh?

One has to multiply thoughts to the point where there aren't enough
policemen to control them



--Stanislaw Lec