How to fit in at Fornits.com

[FemanonFatal2.0]

Here's where many AA members (and some ex programmers) refuse to separate the sentiment of the relationships they have formed in order to be objectionable toward the system that is forced upon them in that program. still thinking in the ends justifies the means, but that's not what were talking about. No one ever said that support groups were bad, unless that group is geared toward forcing someone to admit things they aren't comfortable with (like that you are an addict and if you don't admit it your in denial and everyone shuns you) I would like to see a kind of "rehab" or support group meetings that did not follow the 12 step program. Maybe something that was more centered around the persons will power and working toward building a life for themselves outside of a criminal lifestyle. I like the "one day at a time" idea because it means that you don't have to get all worked up about if your going to be able to stay sober, but one thing it lacks is building up a reason in your mind to stay sober, like the life you want to live, your goals and your future. I think that's an important step that AA skips, find a reason to stay sober and strive for that. Instead they say you can't get sober for your kids or your family or your job or your health even though those are exactly the things that should matter to you and those that are effected the most by the addiction and the lifestyle (or consequences) that come with the territory.

BTW there are support groups for survivors, only problem is no one visits them. There are a few on myspace and for a while antiwwasp was considered one. I have considered starting one with solely that purpose in mind, I'm sure I will make it well known here on Fornits so if that's what your looking for just keep checking back. If I knew a decent amount of people were interested in posting on a regular basis I would create this group, so PM me, If I get enough responses Psy and I will get on the design.

[Froderik]

Why is it that 76% of the threads these days end up in a debate about AA?

YMAO (yawning my ass off)

[try another castle]

Why is it that 76% of the threads these days end up in a debate about AA?

YMAO (yawning my ass off)

I agree. I joined the fray on this issue a while ago, but Im out of steam.

Methinks that the reason it's become so hot-button recently is because of the fifth estate article, in addition to the fact that a lot of these programs that did not initially institute stepcraft are now doing so. (Including the old CEDU schools, such as NWA and BCA.)

I attended in the 80s, back when the cow creek campus housed RMA, and had no stepcraft whatsoever. Still, my mom says to this day that she feels the place wasn't appropriate for me since it seemed to her from the outside that the place was geared more towards kids who had serious drug problems. She's right. It did focus on drug use, but a lot of the kids in there, as most people on this site know, since its consistent with a lot of programs, housed many kids who had only experimented with drugs or who hadn't done drugs at all. I had only been a drinker, but I sure picked up some drug habits after I got out, lemme tell u.

Compare this with my previous time at the children's home, where I hung out with kids who did drugs (mostly pot), and I never had a desire to, even though sometimes I'd even chip in on a dime bag, despite the fact that I wouldn't partake. (They'd always hit me back later by springing for lunch or something.)

[Anonymous]

I don't think a support group for survivors will work. The reason being that a large portion of the abuse going on in programs is peer to peer.

That's why the term "survivor" itself is misleading. Many kids in programs, for whatever reason, become rabid ideologues who torture the new kids with a convert's passionate desire to prove their new found faith.

Program utilize the strategy of divide and conquer, and they do it very effectively, and with permanence.

[psy]

I don't think a support group for survivors will work. The reason being that a large portion of the abuse going on in programs is peer to peer.

That's why the term "survivor" itself is misleading. Many kids in programs, for whatever reason, become rabid ideologues who torture the new kids with a convert's passionate desire to prove their new found faith.

Program utilize the strategy of divide and conquer, and they do it very effectively, and with permanence.

That's true, but without the program, the motivation to be malicious is often gone.  Also, it's my opinion that the "alpha dogs" in the program are less likely to show up here (or at least consider themselves survivors)...  I think the influence on them, with the learned malice and the guilt that goes with it is a lot more long lasting.

[Anonymous]

Law of the land is that it is.  Legally, courts have ruled AA to be a religion.

http://orange-papers.org/orange-spirrel.html#judges
 

This has been said 1,000 times  and I don’t want to rehash the same ground, which is besides the point anyway, but AA was never ruled a religion, it was ruled it has enough religious components that people should not be ordered to participate in it. Same thing happened with the Boy Scouts. (cannot lease public land--too many religious compenants)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous

That would be nice.  A lot of people have found just talking to people they meet on fornits to be helpful...  There are some private email lists as well (especially for specific programs).  Check the fornits wiki for information on a support group / email list for your program.

.

good idea

 Statistically, AA's sucess rate is non-existant.

Again, as far as I know, that isn’t true, but that has been hashed to death by other guests, so I wont even go there.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?f= ... 6&p=323461

Why is it that 76% of the threads these days end up in a debate about AA?

YMAO (yawning my ass off)

LOL.

[Anonymous]

I don't think a support group for survivors will work. The reason being that a large portion of the abuse going on in programs is peer to peer.

That's why the term "survivor" itself is misleading. Many kids in programs, for whatever reason, become rabid ideologues who torture the new kids with a convert's passionate desire to prove their new found faith.

Program utilize the strategy of divide and conquer, and they do it very effectively, and with permanence.

Yes, I dont know how i feel about appealing to the same kid that abused me for support, regardless about how they feel about it now.

[FemanonFatal2.0]

I don't think a support group for survivors will work. The reason being that a large portion of the abuse going on in programs is peer to peer.

That's why the term "survivor" itself is misleading. Many kids in programs, for whatever reason, become rabid ideologues who torture the new kids with a convert's passionate desire to prove their new found faith.

Program utilize the strategy of divide and conquer, and they do it very effectively, and with permanence.

Yes, I dont know how i feel about appealing to the same kid that abused me for support, regardless about how they feel about it now.

A support group doesn't have to be about hashing out old drama with old friends, it can really just be a place where people know what your talking about when you talk about how you feel about your experience at the program. That's the good I get out of Fornits, even though there isn't one person who posts here regularly that actually went to my school or knows me personally. I can assume if it were really to get large enough people that knew each other would run into each other but I don't think that would be a bad thing, as well all have the ability to ignore the people we don't want to talk to or just dont visit the site at all. I'm sure there are both pros and cons of the idea but I tend to think if there are enough people interested it would be a good idea to create a safe haven for people who aren't looking to argue with trolls on Fornits.

There is one important reason in my opinion, A girl I knew in Casa By The Sea committed suicide barely a year after she graduated. Her death really effects me and another friend of mine who knew her because we think if we were able to reach her she might not have felt so alone, alone enough to take her life. I'm not saying I have the power to save people's lives but I do feel I would be able to give her support and friendship. The problem is that this happens all to often and I bet we all knew someone in the program who has died young and just think if there were a place that these people felt safe, welcome and cared about maybe even just one life could be spared.

I know being involved in this movement gives me a lot of hope for the future and I think it has made a big difference in my life, and I just want to make sure that kind of a community is available to everyone else.

[Anonymous]

I don't think a support group for survivors will work. The reason being that a large portion of the abuse going on in programs is peer to peer.

That's why the term "survivor" itself is misleading. Many kids in programs, for whatever reason, become rabid ideologues who torture the new kids with a convert's passionate desire to prove their new found faith.

Program utilize the strategy of divide and conquer, and they do it very effectively, and with permanence.

Yes, I dont know how i feel about appealing to the same kid that abused me for support, regardless about how they feel about it now.

A support group doesn't have to be about hashing out old drama with old friends, it can really just be a place where people know what your talking about when you talk about how you feel about your experience at the program. That's the good I get out of Fornits, even though there isn't one person who posts here regularly that actually went to my school or knows me personally. I can assume if it were really to get large enough people that knew each other would run into each other but I don't think that would be a bad thing, as well all have the ability to ignore the people we don't want to talk to or just dont visit the site at all. I'm sure there are both pros and cons of the idea but I tend to think if there are enough people interested it would be a good idea to create a safe haven for people who aren't looking to argue with trolls on Fornits.

There is one important reason in my opinion, A girl I knew in Casa By The Sea committed suicide barely a year after she graduated. Her death really effects me and another friend of mine who knew her because we think if we were able to reach her she might not have felt so alone, alone enough to take her life. I'm not saying I have the power to save people's lives but I do feel I would be able to give her support and friendship. The problem is that this happens all to often and I bet we all knew someone in the program who has died young and just think if there were a place that these people felt safe, welcome and cared about maybe even just one life could be spared.

I know being involved in this movement gives me a lot of hope for the future and I think it has made a big difference in my life, and I just want to make sure that kind of a community is available to everyone else.

yes. i see . I think i do need some kind of help. i would be scared to reach out to any of the exact people i went away with though. I dont know why. Posting anonymously here is less frightening but somehat...I dont know? somewhat like treading water i dont think it gets you to far..psychologically. Maybe nothing does

[try another castle]

it can really just be a place where people know what your talking about when you talk about how you feel about your experience at the program

Actually....

I kind of *like* the fact that I have friends who have no idea what the deal is with that. The one thing I would think would be an issue regarding hanging with survivors is that I think it would be all too easy for us to be in each others' heads... simply out of common experience. Someone is triggered by something and everyone else is kind of conscious about what just happened.

I do have survivors who are close friends, and fortunately, we try to keep program discussion down to a minimum, especially since there is always such lovely fresh and new drama in our lives we can bitch about instead.

[FemanonFatal2.0]

Well I don't think you would be required to devulge your identity simply to participate in this group. Actually, I've always been a fan of the anonymous posting on Fornits, however I think the one thing that makes this site an abrasive environment is the lack of mods willing to enforce rules about content.

For instance, I would probably state that blantent attacks and aggressive, hateful posts will be deleted. I don't mind debating with the other side of the fence about the subject and I certainly wouldn't ban them for simply holding a different opinion but I would be protective of the "safe haven" environment. The way I see it is that if anyone is intending on visiting a support group for survivors and only intends to insult and attack them they shouldn't be welcome.  

It would also help to have individual groups for each individual school, that way If you did want to get in touch with old friends you would be able to do so easily. I could also do some networking on myspace in order to bring in more old buddies... I did that with Darrington Academy and I already have 200 survivors on my friends list. Myspace and facebook are good ways to get a hold of old program buddies, I think if we did make this support group I would launch a full flown networking campaign and see how many survivors I could pull into the site.

The only problem is finding the time. lol.

[TheWho]

Well I don't think you would be required to devulge your identity simply to participate in this group. Actually, I've always been a fan of the anonymous posting on Fornits, however I think the one thing that makes this site an abrasive environment is the lack of mods willing to enforce rules about content.[/size]

For instance, I would probably state that blantent attacks and aggressive, hateful posts will be deleted. I don't mind debating with the other side of the fence about the subject and I certainly wouldn't ban them for simply holding a different opinion but I would be protective of the "safe haven" environment. The way I see it is that if anyone is intending on visiting a support group for survivors and only intends to insult and attack them they shouldn't be welcome.


It would also help to have individual groups for each individual school, that way If you did want to get in touch with old friends you would be able to do so easily. I could also do some networking on myspace in order to bring in more old buddies... I did that with Darrington Academy and I already have 200 survivors on my friends list. Myspace and facebook are good ways to get a hold of old program buddies, I think if we did make this support group I would launch a full flown networking campaign and see how many survivors I could pull into the site.

The only problem is finding the time. lol.

[/size]

I see what you are saying, but I wouldn’t go as far as deleting their posts.  If a person (parent or ex staff ,for example) is attacked for no reason then maybe the attacker could be placed on probation or banned for a few days as a lesson or cooling down period.  Just outright banning someone or deleting posts I don’t think is right.  We should all try to keep the debate healthy, productive and a safe place for people to speak out.  Also, it may help if other posters speak out when someone is being aggressive and point out that the behavior is not welcome here.

[Anonymous]

Why is it that 76% of the threads these days end up in a debate about AA?

YMAO (yawning my ass off)

Then STAY OUT OF THEM.  Leave it alone for others who WANT to discuss it.  If you don't, great.  GTFO.  :boycott:

[Anonymous]

Actually, I've always been a fan of the anonymous posting on Fornits, however I think the one thing that makes this site an abrasive environment is the lack of mods willing to enforce rules about content.

For instance, I would probably state that blantent attacks and aggressive, hateful posts will be deleted.

It's called StrugglingPeople (a forum psy started), I think the last post there was a year ago? For some reason this forum survives, while the moderated ones dwindle and die. Although, antiwasp seems to be doing well, for a moderated forum. There are actually also moderated forums on fornits, but rarely see any posts. Fornits has found a niche, not  a particularly noble one, and I don't mean that as insulting, but it is consistently the busiest forum on this topic I know about.

[Froderik]

Why is it that 76% of the threads these days end up in a debate about AA?

YMAO (yawning my ass off)

Then STAY OUT OF THEM.  Leave it alone for others who WANT to discuss it.  If you don't, great.  GTFO.  :boycott:

Whatever you say, fuckin' forum nazi!!!  :fuckoff:  

Guess my posting behavior should fall in line with what YOU think, eh?   :rofl:

Tell ya what -- I'll make a point to bitch about this sort of thing more, if only to irritate you.  :twofinger: