Winning The Culture War

[Che Gookin]

And to top it off Ursus.. think about it this way..

Look at how well character education treated you?

Now why in the world do we want to intragrate the world of education with the world of pshrinking?

Schools are supposed to be places where people are educated. Not indoctrinated, not medicated, not provided with moral fiber, nor religion, nor are they to be characterized by a bunch of damn shrinks, but yet this seems to be happening almost everyday.

Maybe I'm old fashion but the idea that school should be about reading 'riting and 'rithmatic still seems to ring true for me. Do away with all the other miscellaneous crap and provide the basic education for kids. After that let them determine how their academic career will proceed via elective courses, independent learning, work, sports, drama, music, industrial arts, and so on and so forth.

God.. get the big cock of American society out of the student's ass for a change and you might actually see something happening in the schools other than a sullen mass of pissed off kids shuffling from class to class.

[Anne Bonney]

Out.  Out damn spot.  Out.  It has no place in schools.  Guidance counselor, ok....as long as it doesn't cross the line into 'therapy'.

[Ursus]

And to top it off Ursus.. think about it this way..

Look at how well character education treated you?

 ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::
Oh Man, that's RICH!!!  Yeah, fucked me over, threw me out, and when I finally sorta got back on my feet and tried to continue my education, 5-6 years later, they tried to sabotage that as well.  Vindictive, evil, lying bastards... Don't get me started, I could go on forever.

[Ursus]

Okay, back to serious business.  It seems to me, that you're setting yourself up for a potential conflict of interest by having psych services administered by the public school system.  Given their historically strapped finances, they are not always going to want to do what is in the best interests of the kid.  They will want to do what is in the best interests of the school, which sometimes also means the kid, but sometimes not.

I also think that the situation which the OP on this subject described is quite possibly a move on the part of the school system to reduce costs.  Times when the school system has to ordinarily pay for outside therapy, they can now do in-house for less.  There are Special Needs kids who have, on their IEP, designated services stipulated for such and such therapy X-times/wk.  Sometimes that therapy is not occupational, or speech, or LD oriented, but psych oriented.  At the moment, they are paying big bucks for that, cuz it's an "outside provider."

[Anonymous]

NO THERAPISTS!!!! i've been through half a dozen shrinks in my life, none of them were of any use and just fucked me up more. each time we switched we thought we were getting a better, less pharmacorrupt, more intelligent person, but each time they ended up worse than the last. even the 1.5g/hour guy on park avenue was corrupt, and this guy is a well-known shrink, went and taught at harvard. they never helped, and were always looking for a pill to give me, or a problem in my childhood to blame my current situation on. i swear i've been on pretty much every drug on the market at some point, because of my mom's gullibility. the guy even gave me xanax, knowing that i had a major drug problem. guess what happened? i went through a month supply in 2 weeks, then i ended up on gradually tapering dose of librium for a year because the withdrawl was too intense. i dont remember that year too well.

but...guidance counselors are a good idea. theres always the kid who flips out in class, or has a shit home life, or gets suicidal after a breakup, etc....and in high school you cant always rely on your freinds for someone mature to talk to. so i think it's important you have some guy willing to talk to any kid at any time about anything, but i think once they start "shrinking" or giving perscriptions, they are crossing the line.

[Deborah]

8-26-03

National Association of School Psychologists
4340 East West Highway, Suite 402
Bethesda, MD 20814

Dear People,

I am writing you as a graduate of the University of Texas School Psychology Program and as director of Texans For Safe Education, a citizens group expressly concerned with the ever-increasing role of psychiatry in the schools, especially psychiatric drugs.

I am saddened and appalled at the NASP position opposing passage of the Child Medication Safety Act (S1390), now under consideration in the U.S. Senate. How can you possibly be opposed to an affirmation of what is already the clear intent of federal law, which is that children may not be excluded from school because a parent disagrees with a treatment recommendation for their child.

Here is what you say:
"While NASP asserts that it is never right to coerce a student or family into using medications (See NASP Fact Sheet on Diagnosis and Treatment of Attention Disorders: Roles for School Personnel), NASP shares the concern with our allied mental health organizations that such policies will be implemented conservatively, creating a "gag rule" on personnel and creating a chilling effect on the identification of students with mental health needs. While there is no data that this is truly a pervasive problem, there is hard data on the underidentification of students with untreated mental health needs. Further, this language singles out certain medications and perpetuates the stigma of mental health issues."

You say that it is never right to coerce a parent into drugging a child, and then you refuse to stand for that truth, justifying your cowardice and implicitly defending the right of the state to coerce parents. Your argument about a gag rule is completely misleading. The truth is that school employees will have absolutely no stops on the need and value to communicate with parents about their child's expressions of learning and behavior. In Texas, we just passed House Bill 1406 into law, which goes way further than the Child Medication Safety Act. Not only does it outlaw exclusion of a child because of a parent's refusal to consent to a psychiatric drug or evaluation, it also makes it unlawful for school employees to even recommend a drug or suggest a diagnosis.

In order to make this point crystal clear, we included in the new law (now in effect), the following two provisions, stating that the aforementioned prohibitions do not:

"prevent an appropriate referral under the child find system required under 20 U.S.C. Section 1412, as amended; or prohibit a school employee from discussing any aspect of a child's behavior or academic progress with the child's parent or another school district employee."

Are you not aware that there are many states around the nation who are pursuing and passing this type of legislation?

Perhaps even more astounding is your statement that there is no evidence that there is a problem, and that psychiatry is underutilized in the schools. Do you not know that there are about 8,000,000 school age children in the United States on psychiatric drugs today? That is about 15% of the children! And do you not know that none of the diagnoses for which these children are drugged has been validated by science as a real disease with an objective test by which a doctor can make a real differential diagnosis?

I wonder, too, if NASP will acknowledge the fact that it is not uncommon today for school employees to threaten parents who resist pressure to have their children labeled with psychiatric disease names and receive psychotropic drugs. These parents are being threatened with accusations of medical neglect and a call to Child Protective Services for an investigation. Are you not aware of this horrible draconian practice? Testimony in the last Texas legislative session on this issue led to passage of another new law, House Bill 320, which amends to family code to clarify that "consent to the administration of a psychotropic drug to the child, or to consent to any other psychiatric or psychological treatment of the child, does not by itself constitute neglect of the child." You might also be interested to know that new law also revises the education code to state that "An employee of a school district may not use or threaten to use the refusal of a parent, guardian, or managing or possessory conservator of a child to administer or consent to the administration of a psychotropic drug to the child, or to consent to any other psychiatric or psychological testing or treatment of the child."

In short, I am ashamed that my profession is attempting to stop a nationwide effort to defend the rights of parents to make treatment decisions for their children without pressure or coercion from the schools. As to your final statement about this law contributing to the stigma of mental illness, I am appalled at your blatant kowtowing to the psychiatric
practice of labeling and drugging children, and guilt-tripping parents. The fact is that parents who want to protect their children form labeling and drugs are being responsible, and it is our profession that is in disgrace when we refuse to be advocates for parental choice and for handling children without drugging them. I urge you to change your position on the Child Medication Safety Act, and support this little step defending parents against coercion.

Sincerely,
John Breeding, PhD

Addendum

Please read a letter describing the flaws in the scientific evidence that is used to support the belief that ADHD is a neurochemical disorder that is present from birth and that has nothing to do with inadequate nurturance during childhood, difficult family environments or oppressive and inhumane educational and community environments. It also describes the harm that is done by these beliefs and the treatment approaches based on them.

The letter, which is signed by 12 members of ICSPP who are also members of the American Psychological Association, is a reply to a letter of March 17, 2002 which was sent by Dr. Alice Rubenstein to Dr. Albert Galves, a member of The International Center for the Study of Psychiatry and Psychology (ICSPP.) This letter is posted at DEBUNKING THE SCIENCE BEHIND ADHD AS A "BRAIN DISORDER" (www.academyanalyticarts.org/galveswalker.html) and is located in the Topical Issues section.

Dr. Rubenstein is the Director of The Brochure Project, a joint effort of Division 29 (Psychotherapy) of the APA and Celltech Pharmaceuticals to publish and distribute brochures on Attention Deficit-Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD).

In a letter of February 16, 2002, Dr. Galves had expressed concerns about the following three statements that appear in the brochures:

"ADD/ADHD is generally considered a neuro-chemical disorder."

"Most people with ADD/ADHD are born with the disorder, though it may not be recognized until adulthood."

"ADHD is not caused by poor parenting, a difficult family environment, poor teaching or inadequate nutrition."

In her reply, Dr. Rubenstein included information and supporting references provided to her by Drs. Robert Resnick and Kallman Heller of Division 29.

[Deborah]

Texas State Board of Education Resolution
November 3, 2000

WHEREAS, The mission of the public education system of this state is to ensure that all Texas children have access to a quality education that enables them to achieve their potential and fully participate now and in the future in the social, economic, and educational opportunities of our state and nation; and

WHEREAS, The State Board of Education envisions in its long-range plan for public education a system of public education that is based on the fundamental principles that all students can learn, and all educators can develop the knowledge and expertise to implement programs that ensure all students can learn; and

WHEREAS, the Texas State Board of Education dedicates itself to improving the academic achievement of all students; and

WHEREAS, the responsibility of school personnel is to ensure student achievement; and

WHEREAS, only medical personnel can recommend the use of prescribed medication; and

WHEREAS, a Consensus Development Panel conducted in November 1998 by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) to resolve controversies surrounding Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) reported that: "there is no valid independent test for ADHD...further research is necessary to firmly establish ADHD as a brain disorder...additional efforts to validate the disorder are needed"; and

WHEREAS, the NIH Consensus Development Panel reported that stimulant drugs such as methylphenidate (Ritalin) result in "little improvement in academic or social skills," and

WHEREAS, there are documented incidences of highly negative consequences in which psychiatric prescription drugs have been utilized for what are essentially problems of discipline which may be related to lack of academic success; and

WHEREAS, up to one million school-age children in Texas are taking psychiatric drugs, and

WHEREAS, the Texas State Board of Education recognizes that there is much concern regarding the issue of diagnosis and medication and their impact on student achievement; and

WHEREAS, in its long-range plan for public education, the State Board of Education challenges students, parents and families, educators, and community leaders to participate actively in making their schools safe learning environments; and

WHEREAS, this plan further states that ensuring safety for Texas public education will take nothing short of a coordinated effort by the state and each community to keep violence, prevent the abuse of prescription and illicit drugs, and disruptive behavior out of schools; now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education does hereby urge all local school district boards of trustees and superintendents to become aware of and concerned about the use of psychotropic drugs in their schools, and to determine the extent to which such drugs are in use in their schools, and the current processes by which such drugs are being prescribed for the students; and be it further

RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education encourage local boards and superintendents to require local school personnel to use proven academic and/or management solutions to resolve behavior, attention, and learning difficulties. The State Board of Education suggests that programs such as tutoring, vision testing, phonics, nutritional guidance, medical examinations, allergy testing, standard disciplinary procedures, and other remedies known to be effective and harmless, be recommended to parents as their options; and be it further

RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education urge local school personnel to respect the exclusive authority of physicians to make psychiatric diagnoses of behavioral problems, recommend psychiatric screening for specific behavioral problems, and suggest the use of psychiatric medication for a student; and be it further

RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education recommend that each local school district implement a special policy with regard to storing and distribution of psychoactive drugs; and be it further

RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education urges local school boards to adopt and implement a policy that requires prescription medications dispensed on school property be administered by a medical practitioner licensed by the state to dispense medication; and be it further

RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education encourages greater communication and education among parents, educators, and medical professionals about the effects of psychotropic drugs on student achievement and our ability to provide a safe and civil learning environment.

WITNESS our signatures this third day of November, two thousand, in Austin, Texas.

Chase Untermeyer, Chair
Rosie Collins Sorrells, Ed.D., Secretary

[Antigen]

Great thread, everybody! This is my third attempt to catch up with this thread. Thanks, Gook, for starting it.

Time and persistence will help reduce this ignorance in our society. Thoughts ideas and suggestions are being called for to address this matter. I've already started on a writing project of my own, put on hold due to my current vacation, but it will be finished.

IDEas biatches..

First off, stop talking in the passive sense. I'm only half kidding.

Day to day encounters like Guest's chance encounter on the bus are pretty cool. Today, I get the opportunity to decline to give consent for my 10yo to participate in DARE. Maybe they'll ask me why. That'd be cool. I really don't mind telling them. Every time I see a kid pull off an impressive stunt on his skate board I say something nice. Skating, after all, is not a crime!

And I wouldn't discount legalization, particularly mj legalization, as valid, possibly vital aspect to winning the culture war. For one thing, almost the only people left clinging to refer madness are pretty much the Semblers and their close affiliates. These have come to be known as the "extra chromosome" Republicans. War on MJ has become somewhat of an emblem of their love of arbitrary, capricious and often cruel authority from the right.

The psyche screening and pill pushers represent the Dempublican counterpart and we should just as constantly and strenuously challenge and investigate them.

Medicalization ~= criminalizsation
Not a nickle's worth of difference.

I think the drug war and the troubled parent industry are symptoms of the same problem. And it's no big shocker to me that people like Lichfield and Sembler and their ilk are carrying out Manifest Destiny on the international political stage and Stalinist block monitoring in our towns and schools. What else would you expect from these turkeys?

However, my intent was to present ideas to reach the mainstream of America's conscious. Psy threw up a few good ideas, and Frod made a good point or two.


My idea is very specific and long term. I was thinking about it last night and I came up with the following:

An online newsletter or e-zine designed to raise awareness of programmes. More than just raising awareness though I believe in the merit of providing a message of hope. Almost everyone who comes in contact with a programme is affected to some degree or another. Rather than focus solely on the damage of programmes I'd like to see people willing to discuss their own recovery from the damn programmes.

People need to know that some sort of peace of mind can be gained. I think it would be important for parents, kids, and everyone else to know that life after programmes can get better.

Of course the true face of programmes needs to be exposed loudly and repeatedly in this e-zine. However, I'm thinking more of a inteview style format that isn't so likely to revolt the average reader. A simple clean format providing the maximum exposure and information in the least amount of space.

Also in this e-zine:

Poetry
travel
classifieds


Literally anything we want to put in it that people are willing to put effort into producing.

discuss.

That's about exactly what I'm thinking. Art is probably one of the best means we have to effect peaceful change. And we should all encourage chatter and thoughtful discussion about art of any kind that carries a related theme. In fact I bet if we put together an art and media review carrying purchase links we could sell a lot of good content, get people thinking and demonstrate that our weird little shared history is coming close enough to mainstream interest as to be commercially tenable.

[Anonymous]

I thinik, at this point, if you collected everyone story that you could fill an encylopedia of horrible program stories.

[TheWho]

What are your positions regarding putting mental health services in the schools?  There is a current push in my state for this, and the advocates are rather powerful.  I see this as massive brainwashing.  I look foreward to your responses!

We really need to be pushing this the other way.  If we start creating positions for mental health services within the schools I guarantee the school will have a dispensary window installed within a year or 2 and every kids will be labeled and medicated, because time is money and it is too costly to spend time talking to all these kids.
This is  why (or one of the reasons) Charter schools are being created to cut all the wasted time, sex education, D.A.R.E crap etc.
 
What the schools need are a few people with Bachelors degrees in social studies and/or psychology and the ability to relate to adolescents, the ability to listen, honesty, an open mind, and a sense of humor. (Guidance counselors) Those who can keep it simple and get to know the kids on a personal level so you can raise the flag if a problem seems to be surfacing and try to get the parents involved, try to advocate/educate/communicate as best you can and hand the information off to them.

[TheWho]

Data Removed by request, there was an error.

[Che Gookin]

Who... are you feeling ok?

[Anne Bonney]

What was that?

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

What are your positions regarding putting mental health services in the schools?  There is a current push in my state for this, and the advocates are rather powerful.  I see this as massive brainwashing.  I look foreward to your responses!

We really need to be pushing this the other way.  If we start creating positions for mental health services within the schools I guarantee the school will have a dispensary window installed within a year or 2 and every kids will be labeled and medicated, because time is money and it is too costly to spend time talking to all these kids.
This is  why (or one of the reasons) Charter schools are being created to cut all the wasted time, sex education, D.A.R.E crap etc.
 
What the schools need are a few people with Bachelors degrees in social studies and/or psychology and the ability to relate to adolescents, the ability to listen, honesty, an open mind, and a sense of humor. (Guidance counselors) Those who can keep it simple and get to know the kids on a personal level so you can raise the flag if a problem seems to be surfacing and try to get the parents involved, try to advocate/educate/communicate as best you can and hand the information off to them.

You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As we
say in Texas, you couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions
printed on the heel. You are a canker, an open wound. I would rather
kiss a lawyer than be seen with you. You took your last vacation in
the Islets of Langerhans.

You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little
worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk,
a cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a
stench, a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon.

You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared
richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth
into a hostile world. You are an insensate, blinking calf,
meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling
beasts who sired you and then died of shame in recognition of what
they had done. They were a bit late.

I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same
species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformity. I barf
at the very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut.
Lepers avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You
are a weed, a fungus, the dregs of this earth. And did I mention
that you smell?

Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting
to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a
nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be
able to access it ever so much more rapidly.

You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you up,
drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set
you loose to fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the
frothy pink shame of your ignoble blood. May you choke on the
queasy, convulsing nausea of your own trite, foolish beliefs.

You are weary, stale, flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid,
nasty and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You're a fool, an
ignoramus. Monkeys look down on you. Even sheep won't have sex with
you. You are unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost
in a land that reality forgot. You are not ANSI compliant. You
have a couple of address lines shorted together. You should be
promoted to Engineering Manager.

And what meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important
statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us?
What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your
tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous
desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite of
the snake?

You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and
obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living
emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a
loathsome disease, a puerile slack-jawed drooling meatslapper. You
make Quakers shout and strike Pentecostals silent.

Your mother had to tie a pork chop around your neck
just to get your dog to play  with you.  You think P.D.Q. Bach is
the greatest composer who ever lived.  You prefer L. Ron Hubbard to
Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle.  Hee-Haw is too deep for you.  You
would watch test patterns all day if the other inmates would let you.

On a good day you're a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are
deficient in all that lends character. You have the personality
of wallpaper. You are dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted.
You are the source of all unpleasantness. You spread misery and
sorrow wherever you go.

You smarmy lagerlout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off,
pillock. You grotty wanking oik artless base-court apple-john.
You clouted boggish foot-licking half-twit. You dankish clack-dish
plonker. You gormless crook-pated tosser. You bloody churlish
boil-brained clotpole ponce. You craven dewberry pisshead cockup
pratting naff. You cockered bum-bailey poofter. You gob-kissing
gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You dread-bolted fobbing beef-witted
clapper-clawed flirt-gill.

You are so clueless that if we stripped you naked, soaked you in
clue musk, and dropped you into a field full of horny clues, You
still would not have a clue.

You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are
degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing
you exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go
away.

I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard
stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid so stupid that it
goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension
of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid
collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed.
Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity
stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. You emit more
stupid in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year.
Quasar stupid. Your writing has to be a troll. Nothing in our
universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial
fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence
of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the
laws of physics that we know. I'm sorry. I can't go on. This is an
epiphany of stupid for me. After this, you may not hear from me
again for a while. I don't have enough strength left to deride
your ignorant questions and half baked comments about unimportant
trivia, or any of the rest of this drivel. Duh.

The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. I have
snipped away most of your of what you wrote, because, well...
it didn't really say anything. Your attempt at constructing a
creative flame was pitiful. I mean, really, stringing together
a bunch of insults among a load of babbling was hardly effective...
Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read, write, spell,
and count, you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary
skills that many of us "normal" people take for granted that
everyone has an easy time of mastering. But we sometimes forget
that there are "challenged" persons in this world who find these
things more difficult. If I had known, that this was your case then
I would have never read your post. It just wouldn't have been
"right". Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the
best of luck in the emotional, and social struggles that seem to be
placing such a demand on you.

P.S.:
You are hypocritical, greedy, violent, malevolent, vengeful,
cowardly, deadly, mendacious, meretricious, loathsome, despicable,
belligerent, opportunistic, barratrous, contemptible, criminal,
fascistic, bigoted, racist, sexist, avaricious, tasteless, idiotic,
brain-damaged, imbecilic, insane, arrogant, deceitful, demented,
lame, self-righteous, byzantine, conspiratorial, satanic,
fraudulent, libelous, bilious, splenetic, spastic, ignorant,
clueless, illegitimate, harmful, destructive, dumb evasive,
double-talking, devious, revisionist, narrow, manipulative,
paternalistic, fundamentalist, dogmatic, idolatrous, unethical,
cultic, diseased, suppressive, controlling, restrictive, malignant,
deceptive, dim, crazy, weird, dystopic, stifling, uncaring,
plantigrade, grim, unsympathetic, jargon-spouting, censorious,
secretive, aggressive, mind-numbing, arassive, poisonous, flagrant,
self-destructive, abusive, socially-retarded, puerile, and
Generally Not Good.

I hope this helps...

 ::both::