Author Topic: Second Nature Wilderness Program  (Read 76631 times)

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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #255 on: January 04, 2008, 09:05:07 AM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
even if there were clinical studies what would they be based on anyway? Because if it was " good behaviour" I would not be surprised if some kids were scared straight. What any study would need to show is the direct link between the mean spirited camp and the the ability to cure in the long term mental illness, drug addiction as well as every other catchall bogus illness like oppositional defiant disorder. It would have to compare the kids to those with exactly the same symptoms in places that do not have second nature or any other such ridiculous camps. Where would they even get a sample group that wide outside of the tbs system? Most professional drug counsellors, doctors or psychs dont have the levelt of hubris required to believe that they can cure such a wide range of complex issues with a single program or philosophy. It is only the buffoons within this industry who do.


One approach......The study could consist of a large sample of children who attend a program over time.  The children could be loosely classified (i.e. ADD, drug problems, depression etc.)  The programs could be classified (i.e. TBS, Wilderness, boot camp) (maybe a sub category on model used at TBS) and children who did not attend a program (ADD, drug problems, depression) treatment could be categorized as (none or local therapist etc.).

If the samples were large enough many of the nuances would shake themselves out (i.e. degree of depression, level of ADD, predisposed to addiction etc.)… if the kids were tracked for 5+ years after treatment a trend may surface and differences should be able to be measured between treatment methods and non treatment.

Much thought would have to go into setting up the study and screening the children as participants as well as to have a large enough sample to allow for fall out (kids who drop out or stop seeing their therapist).



...
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Offline Che Gookin

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« Reply #256 on: January 04, 2008, 09:27:37 AM »
I'm willing to go with my instincts on this subject of programs. My instincts say burn em all down.

Take your study and shove it.

Anyone got some matches?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #257 on: January 04, 2008, 10:04:38 AM »
OzGirl-   This is not a "mean spirited camp".  It also does not claim to cure all ills or disorders.  It is an opportunity to get therapeutic help in the outdoor environment, learn many wilderness skills (which gives the kids a lot of pride and sense of accompishment) and take a needed break from the dysfunction that has developed at home, school and in the community. The kids do a solo for 1 to 2 days, where they are by themselves at a campsite, read, write and take care of themselves.  This is all good-  the therapeutic techniques are successful.  Yes, there is some coercion involved and there may be some harsh words.  Welcome to life.  These are kids who need a good kick in the ass and parents who do as well.  Both get said kick!  If you think the therapists are gentle with the parents, you are sorely wrong.
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Offline Che Gookin

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« Reply #258 on: January 04, 2008, 10:17:18 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
OzGirl-   This is not a "mean spirited camp". ............... Yes, there is some coercion involved and there may be some harsh words..........


Lols.. epic..

taken from their own homepage

It also does not claim to cure all ills or disorders

Quote
Teen Depression  
Learning Differences
Processing Disorder (Visual, Auditory)
Oppositional Defiant Disorder
Mild Eating Disorder Treatment
Attention Deficit Disorder
Gender Specific Issues
Self-Mutilation Treatment (Cutting)
Reactive Attachment Disorder Treatment (Attachment Disorder)
Social skill deficits: non-verbal learning disorders and Asperger traits (or PDD)
Substance Abuse



They treat all this with their once a week visit from the "therapist"?

Wank wank wank...
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Offline Che Gookin

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« Reply #259 on: January 04, 2008, 10:29:06 AM »
Even more entertaining.. All of the founders worked for Aspen programs before starting SN.

All of them went to Bingham Young University.

I'm pretty sure all of them are mormons.

I bet if I dig around more I can make a connection to these shitbags to a wwasp program/owner.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #260 on: January 04, 2008, 10:29:13 AM »
Treating and curing are not the same thing.  Where do they claim you emerge "cured"?   Don't we all wish it were that easy?
The therapist is in the field for 2 days and is in daily contact with the staff and weekly (or more) with the family.  The therapist is very closely involved with each kid-  you are trying to make it sound like this is fly-by therapy.  It is not.  How often does a kid see his or her therapist at home? Usually once a week- maybe twice if there is a really generous insurance plan. The kid sits in a chair in front of the shrink for an hour, then leaves the room and dismisses everything that was said.  Easy to see how the contained environment of wilderness is preferable to this as a treatment model.
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Offline Che Gookin

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« Reply #261 on: January 04, 2008, 10:41:39 AM »
Now now.. don't back pedal..

You claimed they don't treat everything. On their own web page it lists a very broad selection of problems that they do treat.

You claimed that it isn't a harsh program and yet in the same post their is some coercion and some strong words.

Second torture is just another snake nest rip off scam like Amway or a damn Ponzi scheme.

Normally when someone says, "OH MY GOD it worked for my child!"

I'm always trying to be first to ask,"So are you really saying, there wasn't anything that much wrong with your kid to begin with and that you are admitting your some sorry assed twat who outsourced your own kid to a bunch of necrophialic sheep herders?"
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Offline Che Gookin

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« Reply #262 on: January 04, 2008, 10:47:27 AM »
Quote
WE SPECIALIZE IN:
- Substance Abuse        - Hyperactivity
- Anger - Oppositional Behavior
- Attachment Issues - Identity Issues
- Teen Depression - Manipulation Fueled by High IQ
- Sexually Acting Out - Attention
- Deficit Disorder Impulsivity - Learning Challenges


jesus christ the list gets even longer on the front page.

This isn't looking good at all.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #263 on: January 04, 2008, 10:49:23 AM »
Quote from: ""Mao Gookin""
I'm willing to go with my instincts on this subject of programs. My instincts say burn em all down.

Take your study and shove it.

Anyone got some matches?


Why dont people here want to see studies done?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #264 on: January 04, 2008, 10:49:29 AM »
Isn't it funny how these program assholes try to come on here and convince readers that programs "aren't as damaging as they're made out to be" by the victims that have already BEEN THROUGH THEM. Goddamn, sometimes I wish they all had ONE NECK that I could get my hands around............stupid corrupt fuckers.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #265 on: January 04, 2008, 10:53:14 AM »
Quote from: ""Mao Gookin""
I'm willing to go with my instincts on this subject of programs. My instincts say burn em all down.

Take your study and shove it.

Anyone got some matches?


Why dont people want to see studies done?
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Offline Che Gookin

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« Reply #266 on: January 04, 2008, 10:55:00 AM »
Because we don't need some pin head shrink or sociologist to tell us that what goes on in programs is wrong. We have our own experiences that does that nicely enough.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #267 on: January 04, 2008, 10:57:23 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Isn't it funny how these program assholes try to come on here and convince readers that programs "aren't as damaging as they're made out to be" by the victims that have already BEEN THROUGH THEM. Goddamn, sometimes I wish they all had ONE NECK that I could get my hands around............stupid corrupt fuckers.


what you are missing is the information is coming from parents and kids who went thru the program.  (Just not from the few angry ones like yourselve).
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #268 on: January 04, 2008, 11:01:35 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Mao Gookin""
I'm willing to go with my instincts on this subject of programs. My instincts say burn em all down.

Take your study and shove it.

Anyone got some matches?

Why dont people want to see studies done?



This was my expected response from most here on fornits.  Many here hide behind studies that haven’t been done and hope that none are done.  The thought of putting it all on the table, running a study which would show how effective these places are would essentially bring all your arguments to a halt and I think that scares most of you because that would force you to look elsewhere for the root cause of your anger (maybe inward?).

Once the studies show that 99.9% of the kids do well how could you justify (to yourself) that the school was at fault and on top of that you couldn’t blame your parents anymore for their decision to send you (sort of a double hit most of you would take).

The scarcity of studies is what keeps everyone here going.



...
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Offline Che Gookin

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« Reply #269 on: January 04, 2008, 11:02:49 AM »
Lols.. my ass.. there is at best only one to two proSecond nature posters on this whole thread.

You think we give a shit if this little snake nest actually does any good or not?

Hell no.

I'll tell you why and I'll make it simple.


NO parent.. NO program... Not one single son of a bitch on this earth should have the power to force a kid into a program.

Every single kid deserves representation to prove the need for treatment from a reputable treatment center.

SNWP is a snakenest that promises treatment from dandruff to veneral disease. On top of it on this thread we've seen reputable reports from survivors of the program showing us the only treatment that goes on their is clearly a crock of shit.

Keep spinning... and keep failing..

You'll win no converts here.
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