Second Nature Wilderness Program

[Anonymous]

Anecdotal "evidence" from an anonymous program supporter means nothing.  Please show CLINICAL evidence that Second Nature is effective at healing psychosis or sociopathy.  Otherwise, you're just another full-of-shit shill...

Post the clinical trials that prove what you're saying or shut up.

Please.  I'm still waiting for your answer.  Please show the clinical evidence that Second Nature is effective at treating mental/social disorders.

[Anonymous]

Anecdotal "evidence" from an anonymous program critic means nothing.  Please show CLINICAL evidence that Second Nature is abusive.  Otherwise, you're just another full-of-shit liar...

Post the evidence that proves what you're saying or shut up.

[Anonymous]

All Second Nature and TBS did was provide ammo for a child to run and go underground. Luckily, there is a relationship with his parents but it's shaky.

Compliance is not acceptance.

[Anonymous]

Anecdotal "evidence" from an anonymous program critic means nothing.  Please show CLINICAL evidence that Second Nature is abusive.  Otherwise, you're just another full-of-shit liar...

Post the evidence that proves what you're saying or shut up.

Damn right. Lots of talk, but when you ask them to back it up with evidence they come up with zilch. Keep on truckin' buddy, it sure is nice to see someone out there with a BRAIN for a change... This site is full of retards!

[Anonymous]

I have plenty of knowledge about what goes on at the program and there are many kids who will share their experiences with you

have them come here then coward.

You have knowledge with the program? Have you seen the Duchesne office? Met the robotic Mormons? Met the robotic LDA citizens of the town who quietly look away at all the "rich kids who screwed up". Have you seen the weathered faces of the kids who are on forced marches and solos?  Oh wait, seeing another being humilated is therapuetic.

Have you been on an overnight transition? Witness the Stepford-like acceptance of program kids in Transiton so those kids can leave hell?

Waiting for an answer.

[TheWho]

I have plenty of knowledge about what goes on at the program and there are many kids who will share their experiences with you

have them come here then coward.

You have knowledge with the program? Have you seen the Duchesne office? Met the robotic Mormons? Met the robotic LDA citizens of the town who quietly look away at all the "rich kids who screwed up". Have you seen the weathered faces of the kids who are on forced marches and solos?  Oh wait, seeing another being humilated is therapuetic.

Have you been on an overnight transition? Witness the Stepford-like acceptance of program kids in Transiton so those kids can leave hell?

Waiting for an answer.

I think everyone is waiting for clinical studies, no one is accepting individual accounts or word of mouth anymore.



...

[Anonymous]

I have plenty of knowledge about what goes on at the program and there are many kids who will share their experiences with you

have them come here then coward.

You have knowledge with the program? Have you seen the Duchesne office? Met the robotic Mormons? Met the robotic LDA citizens of the town who quietly look away at all the "rich kids who screwed up". Have you seen the weathered faces of the kids who are on forced marches and solos?  Oh wait, seeing another being humilated is therapuetic.

Have you been on an overnight transition? Witness the Stepford-like acceptance of program kids in Transiton so those kids can leave hell?

Waiting for an answer.

I think everyone is waiting for clinical studies, no one is accepting individual accounts or word of mouth anymore.



...

Where are the clinical studies then, thou carbuncle infested old hack?

[Anonymous]

Anecdotal "evidence" from an anonymous program critic means nothing.  Please show CLINICAL evidence that Second Nature is abusive.  Otherwise, you're just another full-of-shit liar...

Post the evidence that proves what you're saying or shut up.

Damn right. Lots of talk, but when you ask them to back it up with evidence they come up with zilch. Keep on truckin' buddy, it sure is nice to see someone out there with a BRAIN for a change... This site is full of retards!

I never said it was abusive, although I think it is.  

But I asked you a simple question:  Where is the clinical evidence that Second Nature's "brand" of "therapy" works in any way, shape or form?

Please answer that question for me.

BTW, this anon poster is the one FKA "Wild Fig," just so you know who you're dealing with here - one of the most prolific trolls ever to grace fornits.

[Anonymous]

Anecdotal "evidence" from an anonymous program critic means nothing.  Please show CLINICAL evidence that Second Nature is abusive.  Otherwise, you're just another full-of-shit liar...

Post the evidence that proves what you're saying or shut up.

Are you joking? Can humans exist that are so ignorant? Of COURSE there's no such thing as "clinical evidenceâ€

[TheWho]

Anecdotal "evidence" from an anonymous program critic means nothing.  Please show CLINICAL evidence that Second Nature is abusive.  Otherwise, you're just another full-of-shit liar...

Post the evidence that proves what you're saying or shut up.

Damn right. Lots of talk, but when you ask them to back it up with evidence they come up with zilch. Keep on truckin' buddy, it sure is nice to see someone out there with a BRAIN for a change... This site is full of retards!

I never said it was abusive, although I think it is.  

But I asked you a simple question:  Where is the clinical evidence that Second Nature's "brand" of "therapy" works in any way, shape or form?

Please answer that question for me.

BTW, this anon poster is the one FKA "Wild Fig," just so you know who you're dealing with here - one of the most prolific trolls ever to grace fornits.

We are waiting for the clinical studies that show the program to be abusive.  There are some people here who claim it is.
Just provide a link

[Anonymous]

Anecdotal "evidence" from an anonymous program critic means nothing.  Please show CLINICAL evidence that Second Nature is abusive.  Otherwise, you're just another full-of-shit liar...

Post the evidence that proves what you're saying or shut up.

Are you joking? Can humans exist that are so ignorant? Of COURSE there's no such thing as "clinical evidenceâ€

[Anonymous]

Anecdotal "evidence" from an anonymous program critic means nothing.  Please show CLINICAL evidence that Second Nature is abusive.  Otherwise, you're just another full-of-shit liar...

Post the evidence that proves what you're saying or shut up.

Damn right. Lots of talk, but when you ask them to back it up with evidence they come up with zilch. Keep on truckin' buddy, it sure is nice to see someone out there with a BRAIN for a change... This site is full of retards!

I never said it was abusive, although I think it is.  

But I asked you a simple question:  Where is the clinical evidence that Second Nature's "brand" of "therapy" works in any way, shape or form?

Please answer that question for me.

BTW, this anon poster is the one FKA "Wild Fig," just so you know who you're dealing with here - one of the most prolific trolls ever to grace fornits.

We are waiting for the clinical studies that show the program to be abusive.  There are some people here who claim it is.
Just provide a link

Your intellect is tragically, hopelessly non-functional.  Abuse is reported, not studied in clinical trials.

Now, Second Nature is selling a service which you and they claim to be "successful" at "treating" teens with various and sundry pathologies.    Please show the clinical trial data that shows attendees of SN show statistically significant improvemnt of their professionally diagnosed presenting problems.  

It's not that deep of a concept.

[TheWho]

Anecdotal "evidence" from an anonymous program critic means nothing.  Please show CLINICAL evidence that Second Nature is abusive.  Otherwise, you're just another full-of-shit liar...

Post the evidence that proves what you're saying or shut up.

Damn right. Lots of talk, but when you ask them to back it up with evidence they come up with zilch. Keep on truckin' buddy, it sure is nice to see someone out there with a BRAIN for a change... This site is full of retards!

I never said it was abusive, although I think it is.  

But I asked you a simple question:  Where is the clinical evidence that Second Nature's "brand" of "therapy" works in any way, shape or form?

Please answer that question for me.

BTW, this anon poster is the one FKA "Wild Fig," just so you know who you're dealing with here - one of the most prolific trolls ever to grace fornits.

We are waiting for the clinical studies that show the program to be abusive.  There are some people here who claim it is.
Just provide a link

There are no studies, just stories, trust me, dont hold your breath.  Second Nature has been very successful.

[Anonymous]

A Mom-    Yes, I have been to transition, to the Duchesne office and met all of the principals and many other staff.  I have interviewed several of the lead therapists and have spent many hours studying Second Nature.  I am more impressed with the program and the staff all the time.  It continues to develop and improve and has impacted many families in an astonishingly positive way.

[Oz girl]

even if there were clinical studies what would they be based on anyway? Because if it was " good behaviour" I would not be surprised if some kids were scared straight. What any study would need to show is the direct link between the mean spirited camp and the the ability to cure in the long term mental illness, drug addiction as well as every other catchall bogus illness like oppositional defiant disorder. It would have to compare the kids to those with exactly the same symptoms in places that do not have second nature or any other such ridiculous camps. Where would they even get a sample group that wide outside of the tbs system? Most professional drug counsellors, doctors or psychs dont have the levelt of hubris required to believe that they can cure such a wide range of complex issues with a single program or philosophy. It is only the buffoons within this industry who do.