Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

Memories of being clean and sober

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landyh:

--- Quote ---On 2005-11-29 06:31:00, JaLong wrote:

"Jimmy,

Oh how I remember that clean and sober feeling I first felt in the seed. I felt happy for the first time in a very long time. This may sound corny, but I could hear the birds sing, feel and enjoy the wind blowing in my hair, and seeing and feeling the wonders of God. I am very proud of you for being clean for 38 days. i can relate. After being clean and sober for 19 yrs after the seed, I started to bend my elbow a little too much, so AA here I came. It has been almost 7 yrs for me now. I don't go any longer, and after talking to my sponsor, I realized I am not an alcholic. I use my toolbox on a daily basis. As far as step one, we are powerless over a lot of things. Ya know, people, places, and things. I just need to always keep my side of the street clean, and let others do it on their own. Congrats Jimmy.

Julie"

--- End quote ---

I don't care that Jimm'ys post is so old as I liked your response. I am relating from my first experience in the seed not my second though I found some good elements then too they were just further and fewer between. But what you said about how you began to look at and appreciate simple things in a new way was very much my experience too. I don't even remember what got me back into drugs and alcohol but I also know that if my first experience at the seed did anything it made me unable to socially do anything with mind altering substances without feeling a failure. My own alcoholism taught me about the real darkness of addiction. Because although I was seriously troubled when I came to the seed at nine and the  substances I used unquestionably were harming me I was not yet addicted in the way I now understand the term. At most I was a user of habit much like the way I smoked cigarettes I overdid it to be sure but I was not enslaved by it. Other than the Huffing I did which I thank God was relativeley short lived the things I was doing were not addictive although potetially habit forming. I definately had values before the first venture with the seed in that I would not do hard drugs. If anything became a gateway for me it was alcohol. Eventually it was under the influence of it that my values crumbled in a kind of step by step fashion. I had a "friend" who I roomed with for a time and he was a full blown junkie who on occasion convinced me to give him a ride to Miami from Ft. Laud. to score junk. At first I didn't know what he was doing as he would claim he had to pick up money owed or some such thing. But as I found out and asked if he could score some coke (which  I found acceptable) for me it wasn't long before I was asking him about the difference between how it felt to snort coke as compared to running it. Of course I had to to try it and it wasn't long before I wanted to feel whatever it was he got out of Heroin and used it for a brief while. Not in sufficient quantity and duration to get strung out though as I was fairly careful with it an didn't have the money to go to far. I would not have done those things sober and I was seldom sober. Later though when I was a little more successful because of sobriety and found myself exposed to temptation to try Hydrocodone/Apap I found it easy to fall into even though I was living alcohol free. Because I could function on this type of drug fairly well it made it all the more difficult to keep from going to far. I seemed able to do it and quite alot without losing my job, friends, family etc. in the way I had with alcohol. Because of tolerance I found myself in a position where I taking 30-35 10/325 lortabs a day. In spite of of the obvious risk to my liver I found myself quite trapped and there were several cycles of withdrawal and then restarting. Each worse than the next. It was in the throws of withdrawal and some other emotional turmoil that I again found myself drinking. In the last 20 years I have been sober 17 years with 14 years being the longest in duration and during that particular period I was clean as well. I had one slip that lasted 3 years and cost me my family and 2 more DUI's. One slip that lasted 2-1/2 months and gradually the last few slips I have had were literally 1 -2 days that left me ashamed and empty. Why so short partly because as they say AA really messes up your drinking. The other part was and this is similiar to why I gave up pot in my late teens was because i just didn't enjoy it anymore. There was no period of relief just an almost instantaneous plunge to a depp and dark place. I also have found for myself that these slips I had were almost always occuring in a time when I had slipped away from my relationship with God. I truly believe that God will bring us to a place of decision with discomfort when we slip away from him. I stopped picking up chips a long time ago becuase I found it artificial and recognized for myself that I was thankful for the peace and relationship I have with God that sobriety permitted me. I don't think that alcohol or even drugs in moderation are evil even though I was raised to think so but I do know that I have never been able to moderate in a way that would work over a long period of time. I also don't feel so terrible about myself for slipping I kind of feel it was a not so gentle guidance to return to God. If I were to have a slip every couple of years that lasted a night or two I would not feel my attempt to stay sober was wasted. My life works better when I am sober and clean. Plain and simple and I for one choose to not to let my mistakes diminish me or my experience. I do know that if I ever went back to fullblown alcoholic drinking the  results would likely be the same.  Basic destruction of everything I value. They say every alcoholic shares the hope that they could one day drink normally and i suppose I still wish that I could enjoy a bottle of wine with someone I love over a romantic dinner. Or maybe an occasional cognac or something with a close friend. The reality is though I am scared to try because everytime I have it hasn't worked. I am very curious as to how you were able to discover you wern't an alcoholic if it isn't too personal to ask. I do believe there are many in the aa of today that were no more than problem drinkers but since the real goal of the program is to develop a spiritual way of life that they find benefit from I have no problem with them being there. I try to keep my program to the basics outlined in the big book which sometimes puts me at odds with those who think that all the things that have been added to the program over the years are essential. Though I am willing to try those things I just know they are tools that are not what the heart of the program is. One thing I love about AA is that no matter how much or who I disagree with there is only one requirement for membership and that is a desire to stop drinking. Along with that they have no more or less right to be there with differing views than I have. So while they can preict my doom for having a differnce of opinion I can in my nicest manner of speaking say FU and continue on my path. I wonder also after seeing you sign as Julie if anybody remembers a girl in the program named Julie who was a truly beautiful girl with long straight dark hair. I don't remember exactly what happened but she left the program and became involved with a guy who was a very wealthy heir to his families fortune. His name was Leo Goodwin Jr. if I remember correctly who went onto commit suicide at a time when I think Julie was still with him. OD'd. I often wondered what happened to her and hoped she was OK. Even though I was probably only about 10 at that time I had a crush on her spurred in part at least by her striking beauty. I remember being sad for her.

Anonymous:
It sounds to me like you, and Jalong and Jimmy thrive on the failure of getting trashed,losing your families and then seeking forgiveness as if that's something to aspire to.  It's like you have no sense of self-worth UNLESS you "work a program." As for hearing the birds and smelling the flowers?  That's simply a matter of whether or not you choose to pay attention to your surroundings.  Apparently not paying attention to the details and results is something you all have in common.

I can understand how one might develope a purely physically addiction to a drug or alcohol, but you have managed to splinter that into habit versus physical addiction.  But what I see more clearly that naything is that you are either too weak or too lazy to listen to your body, pay attention to the world around you and just plain take care of yourself. Isn't that kind of like perpetually being in first grade?

Ft. Lauderdale:
I love the ANONYMOUS posters braveness.  Did you learn to be a coward in the 1st grade also? :idea:

Anonymous:
Why don't you attack the contents of the post as oppossed to the person who posted ?

cleveland:
I remember my sister telling me, after a long stretch of sobriety in AA, that she "loved being drunk, loved passing out, loved the hangover." And I can believe it - she seems never to feel more alive than when there is a ton of drama. Even in sobriety, she seems to cycle thru periods of depression, then plateau, then mania, and back to depression. I think that is interesting. Perhaps for some of us, the self-flagellation in AA, the need to confess and repent, is just as addictive as drinking or using.

I am not judgemental about this...in my own experience, I had long cycles of depression, anxiety and mania, on a sub-clinical low level. 'Self-medicating' with alcohol and cigarettes, or more positively with exercise, was part of my routine, as was getting involved with dramatic romantic entanglements. Briefly I tried psychtrpic drugs, which had side effects during their use, but seemed to have 'reset' my emotional thermostat, if you will, so the anxiety and depression was much diminished. Or maybe it was just due to maturity?

I have also subscribed to the belief that if you try to be aware of your feelings in the moment, you will tend not to abuse drugs or alcohol, because you will fully experience the low as well as the high. So I can have two glasses of wine, without wanting to finish the bottle. And thank god, I stopped smoking!

But I, like many of us here, came from a family that had multiple generations of disfunction. I was operating on a model that I inherited from parents and grandparents, as well as a genetic predisposition for behavior and feelings.

Based upon my experiences of the last 46 years, I can only say that our experiences with drugs and alcohol as well as various paths to sobriety (or moderation) are very complex and have roots in our culture, families and genetics.

It is my belief that use of drugs and alcohol can reveal underlying emotional issues that people will need to deal with - I think an emotionally stable person can enjoy a drink or two, or marijuana or even acid, without ill effect and mayge with benefit of broadening their emotional experience (I feel less certain about heroin and nicotene, crack and meth - these seem to be very addictive when used, except the medical use in some applications).

Meanwhile, we have a very political and polarized national debate, and even here on fornits site, where one side bashes the other. As if we are all perfect in our sobriety, moderation or various addictons!

And when we speak about love - who among us even understands the word? We throw it around so casually.

So as usual, I am up on my high horse. I know nothing, really. I just want to stay happy and healthy for as long as I can, and enjoy the journey! (Oh my god, Art used to say that!)

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