Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Hello
GregFL:
--- Quote ---On 2004-08-15 09:16:00, Filobeddoe wrote:
"Hello GregFL,
I am not in disagreement with any of your points. I know people who were screwed up as teens (my old "druggie" friend) & eventually got their stuff together & are great people (without The Seed).
Then there are alot who didn't get help & died or are still living self destructive lives now.
I had two best friends from the Seed. One of them was older than me (let's call him Rick) & graduated a year before. When we would hang out with 4 or 6 guys fishing, camping what have you... he was the leader, the funny one, the guy who was the happiest that had his shit together & we all liked him & looked up to him. He was going places! I found out a couple yrs after we drifted apart that he dropped out of college & was doing hard drugs & on the run from the law. To this day I don't know what happened to him. He may well have died with a needle in his arm??
My other friend was from a very religious family who had done alot of missionary work (Steve) who wasn't listening to his parents & was sent to the Seed to straighten him out. He was also a really neat kid and good friend! Anyway, he graduated the program & the path his life took was in the opposite direction. He went to a bible college & is now married & happily serving God as a missionary.
Can we give the Seed the credit or the blame? I really don't know... probably not.
My "personal" opinion is that God (a higher power than the Seed) was in control. If we turn TO him we do better than if we turn AWAY from him. I realize that this is grossly over-simplified however true in my case.
Your point about a person getting help? from the Seed at a juncture where they are self destructive and hurting themselves is a good one. It was a jolt that turned some away from that path.
As to your point about voluntary brainwashing- an example came to mind of an example.. The Marine Corps basic training. A recruit is subjected to every sort of physical, mental, psycholical abuse imaginable. They are called maggots (or something similar) constantly ridiculed & their self esteem taken away. They are then slowly indoctrinated into this group (cult?) of the Marine Corps & are eventually told they are the greatest! The point being to tear them down then rebuild into them a certain mindset. You can question whether it is good or bad to be brainwashed in this way.... some would think it's good others wouldn't.
For me, I felt like I was being brainwashed at the time & afterward by the set of beliefs I was being instilled with. No doubt about it!
Funny thought, can you imagine getting up in a rap and talking like this :lol: Probably wouldn't be able to finish the 1st sentence.
"
--- End quote ---
great post filabee. You are obviously thinking about this stuff and that is good.
Your comparison to the marine corps is one that has been made before. Upon further examination, it doesn't really hold up. Lets discuss.
First, when you join the military you do so usually voluntarily. We were mostly deceived and lied to upon our intake at the seed (except in the case of court order. I was told I could leave in 48 hours if I didn't like it. HA!
In the military, your family supports you and you are in contact with them via letters. In the seed, your family affection is used as a behavior modification reward. You are yelled at in public meeting by your parents if you do not comply.
In the military, your brainwashing is for a set amount of time, you can basically maintain your sense of self and wait it out. In the seed and other cults, complete surrender of your personality is mandatory or your time in is unending. Once you submit, you are rebuilt in the image of the cult. Your belief system is picked for you.
In the military, you can speak your mind to your friends. IF you did so in the Seed, you were immediately punished severly.
In the military, you are encouraged to make friends. In the seed cult, you were isolated from everyone until you earned the "priviledge" to talk to other new people.
The differences go on and on. The military uses behavior modification but it is much less severe than cultic mind control.
GregFL:
--- Quote ---
Funny thought, can you imagine getting up in a rap and talking like this :lol: Probably wouldn't be able to finish the 1st sentence.
"
--- End quote ---
You woulda been torn apart personally for a few hours and then started over. The truth was never allowed, only their version of the truth. Independent thought was immediately severely punished, and thinking was deemed "getting into your head", it wasn't allowed.
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2004-08-15 08:52:00, Dantari wrote:
" Hmm guess it turns out Im really in the wrong place. I had thought this was a spot for where old friends were just saying hello.
--- End quote ---
hello :wave:
"Turns out this is where all the losers, misfits and fuck-ups ended up."
_____________________________________________
And here you are....hello again! :wave:
"Hope you manage to find some treatment somewhere."
________________________________________________
Hey, how about here... click this link and click on the "bingo" video
http://fornits.com/anonanon/video/
....this "treatment meet with your approval? Ring a bell?
:grin: :grin: :grin:
Filobeddoe:
Greetings GregFL,
Your points about the differences between the brainwashing/indoctrination/behavior modification of the Seed vs the Marine Corps while true ... miss the point.
Both groups have a system with the goals of 1) modifying behavior to fit the group 2) Instilling a esprit de corps/pride of belonging to the group 3) "breaking" the trainee/newcomer & eventually building him up to fit the desired mold, etc. The methods of this brainwashing/indoctrination are also similar as I mentioned.
If I were to say: "Home Depot & Lowe's are both building supply stores" .... someone could point out a dozen differences between them but they would still be building supply stores.
Just because there are differences between The Seed & the Marines doesn't mean that they aren't very similar in their goals to shape young minds.
Personally, I believe my Seed experience was much like a Marine grunt.
Antigen:
The primary difference between the Marines and The Seed is the intended outcome.
The Marines have to produce men who are strong minded, independent, self reliant, confident and able to think for themselves and make ethical decisions. After all, the final goal is to equip them with high powered weaponry and killing skills. We can't have them going off all neurotic.
Art's goal for Seedlings has always been to have a following of helpless, broken, incomplete people who can't wipe their asses w/o him and so they'll do absolutely anything he tells them to. That's how he managed to go from an unseaworthy boat tied off on the Intracoastal to a mansion in Venician Isles.
Moralizing, with the force of law or coercion, is a
far greater crime against the constitutional principles of our nation than unauthorized euphoria, regardless of the substance involved, be it chocolate or heroin.
--James
--- End quote ---
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