Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

My Parents

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GregFL:
Well Thom, one more lesson learned at the Seed, take the self rightous approach, and if people don't agree with you, don't talk to them.
This was/is a real opportunity to get past this nonsense with your sister and her family and put things back together.25 years is a long time to harbor these feelings for a loved one.
 Like a said in a earlier post, how unfortunate for your family that you still embrace all that Seed nonsense and can't see that it is prohibiting your family from healing.

Anonymous:

On 2002-06-05 03:27:00, Thom McNulty wrote:
Hi Bill,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts...I don't happen to agree with many of them, and find very little accuracy in your recollections, but I do respect your right to express them.
It would appear that my presence here is disruptive. That was not my intent. Sorry if my posts have offended anyone.

--- End quote ---

   I don't have any real hatred for you, but I can not stand by and watch Ginger get slandered once again with the guise of "reaching out". God, that term pisses me off when it comes from a sugar coated, poison pen. And it is also funny (funny strange not funny haha) how people remember things in a way the benefit them most. However, from your programming, sorry, I mean Stair Mastering, that you would remember things differently.


I truly wish you all well, including you, Ginger and Bill. I hope you find the peace of mind and self acceptance we all seek. I enjoy a fairly high level of both, thanks in part to my Seed experience, but more significantly through step 11 (the real version).


--- End quote ---

      I am glad that you think you feel good about your self, but by the way you keep going on about your STEPS, it would seem to me that you are trying to justify them to your self, not me.


If anyone would like to share with me about any positive results or memories from your time at The Seed, I would very much like to hear from you. Plenty of room here on the boards for the negative stuff, (and I don't discount it's worth).

My email address is:
[email:3im2kzzr]aathomic@comporium.net[/email:3im2kzzr]

--- End quote ---

 I hope that you were not posting that email address for mine or Ginger's benefit, as we both know that you have blocked all email from us quite some time a go. So now, there is a discussion with a view that differs from your own, and all you can do is bow out? Your farther would be proud (NOT!).




Take care, and, again...thanks for your input.
I will bow out now, and consider what I have learned here.

--- End quote ---

Some how I seriously doubt that you will consider anything :sad:
 At least you are not leaving as abruptly as last time I saw you, so you must be growing some.

Take care, Thom

[ This Message was edited by: sysadmin on 2002-06-05 07:09 ]

Antigen:
Scott, thanks for that. Truth is, I would probably still talk to Thom, but he blocked my email address through his AOL account and this is the first time I've seen his new address.

Greg, thanks for your kind words. And you're right. My brother was no skidrow junkie at 14. For the most part, all his olddruggiefriends who didn't go through the Program are just fine these days.

Bill, I'll thank you later. :wink:

Thom, first your posting here is not disruptive. Take a look around, there are a lot of threads far more heated than this one. All are welcome to Fornits' Home for Wayward Web Forums (WWF, where the acronym is no coincidence!)

One thing I remember, I was in on one of his first 'earned' talks with my mother. Dad wasn't there, I don't think, because he wouldn't take the kind of insult Art and his tennie-bopper followers dished out during the requisite checkout. While Art was holding forth about your father having chosen his drinking buddies over you, dad was out raising money and donations from his drinking buddies to help get those kids straight. Ask Louie one day about all the cold-cuts he sent down there and the Christmas turkeys.

Here's what I remember. I had a question for you about your druggiepast. It was about that very first, shiny new bike I got for Christmas. You'd promised to teach me to ride it (and I think you would have) and I let you take it to Argo to spend some cash that you'd gotten for Christmas. Well the bike got stolen. At that talk, I wanted to know if you'd sold the bike for drugs. I'll never forget the look on your face, you were devistated.

The thing is, you never were the kind of person who would steal your little sister's bike and sell it for drugs. Art put that in my mind, not you. Invite me to hang out with you cause chicks dig cute little girls? Sure. But that was fun! Cute little girls like being fawned over just as much, so that was a win-win situation. Tell me it was nap time and make me stay in my room ALL DAMNED DAY! when you babysat? Ok, that was a little mean, but not outside the scope of normal sibling mischief.

But you never were so messed up BEFORE the Program as after. And that's typical of Program graduates.

Art did always say 'if it helped one kid...' (but destroyed some and seriously complicated the lives of hundreds or thousands??) it was worth it. You ask if you could possibly be the only kid helped. Well, who are you still in touch with? Jim and Kathi don't talk about it. Jack hasn't got anything nice to say. We're not exactly overwhelmed with Seed supporters over here. Where are all these grateful beneficieries? And why DON'T you stop in at The Seed whenever you've been in Ft. Lauderdale over the years?

As for Jack being 'my latest casualty', ok, you just keep on telling yourself that. He took this family for a ride on the last project. Can't wait to see that $25k barn! I won't even go into all the reasons why we're done with him. But I guess you'll be finding out for yourself if you spend any real time with him as I have over the years.

Don't worry about my self acceptance, brother (lol!) I have plenty. It's your condescending attitude and outright abuse that I won't accept. As for your 'reaching out to me', the only time this family has ever reached out to me with any real energy, you were reaching for a pile of cash, which got.

I wish you and yours all the best. Don't spend it all in one place.



[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2002-06-05 11:54 ]

Anonymous:


Thom wrote:
Greg, it's really the anti-Seed nonsense that's getting in the way. I devote very little time even thinking about The Seed. Ginger builds websites to worship and perpetuate that part of her life. A matter of perspective, I suppose.

--- End quote ---

Thom,
I am guessing you had no "bad" experience in the Seed. Did you spend any time enrolled in Straight? If you were to be forced to go without sleep, or food, or water, or mad to stand /sit for hours on end. Forced to show happiness about your treatment, would you not be a little pissed off. If everyone in your family told you to quit whining about it and butch up, would you just clam up, and go away? Would you not want to seek retribution on your captors? It is your (and other siblings) insistence that "everything is all right" that causes the problem. You do not want to hear anything bad about you Idle Art, that would be against.. um can you refresh my memory, what step was that?

It is a shame on one that instead of a constructive conversation you would rather insult people when they "hit a point", but I guess that is the response of a graduate. Congrats bro, you are about ready to be a "program" counselor.

[ This Message was edited by: SysAdmin on 2002-06-05 07:26 ]

Antigen:
Ok, I just have to throw this in one more time. Thom's not the only one who has a mental highcough every time I (we) answer the "Why, oh why can't you let it GO" question.

Well, the truth is, for almost 20 years, a lot of little things that I saw going on around me sort of creeped me out; DARE and Peer Counseling along with random piss tests and drug sniffing dogs in the schools, neighborhood watch programs (which remind me very much of Soviet-style block monitors... or chain of commands, for that matter), Multijurisdictional Counterdrug Taskforce (see The Shield or The Wire on tee vee), Safe and Drug Free Workplaces/Communities/Shools... now homes? (with the 'self' test drug screening kits available to parents who just can't trust their kids... that come with a brochure refering parents [with good insurance] and who's kids match the checklist for substance abuse [or puberty] to places like Growing Together and SAFE) Then Brother Jeb! took office as the governor of my home state. And among his first actions was to promise $100M in funding for juvenile rehabilitation?!

Ok, I knew there were strong ties between the Program and the Reagans. And it was more than obvious that the first Bush presidency was a mere extension of the Reagan administration... so I had to look... just to find out.... like looking under the bed to make sure there are no boogie men there. Unfortunately, they're there and their names and faces are familiar.

This is why I do it:

The Governor's Sub-rosa Plot to Subvert an Election in Ohio Prominently featuring Straight founder, Betty Sembler, current DFAF Exec. Director, Calvina Fay and some executives from Phoenix House; the largest Synanon based rehab in all the land.

I have been interested in drug policy reform for some years. And I was fairly well familiar with the big players. But I thought it was just my own paranoia, left-over from my days in Straight and childhood in a Seed family that made me think they were making good on their stated goal of turning the whole world into the Program.

I think I liked it better when the world was more-or-less OK and only I was a little paranoid. But there's no unseeing once you take the blinders off. So I'm trying to make everyone else see it too. If enough of us see it, maybe we can put our heads together and figure out what to do about it before we have a full blown American Gulag Archipalego.

BTW, Dad didn't spend a lot of time worrying about things he couldn't change. He spent a lot of time thinking about how to win back the America he and all his childhood friends went to war to protect and which, of those from his home town, he was the only one to return. He did a lot for us kids, but he had other legitimate obligations. And now that he's gone, I'll do my best to carry on that part of his work which he was able to impress on me as being worth the effort.

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