Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

My Parents

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GregFL:
Glad things are going well for you Thom, and welcome to this forum. Your opinions and comments are welcome and appreciated here.
I understand that some people do need help with addiction problems, and perhaps later in life you were one  of them, But what the hell purpose did going to to Seed for 4 years as an adolescent when you had no substance abuse problem serve?
Also, maybe if Ginger does/did have an anger problem, it resulted in being rejected by her family by not embracing the cultism of the seed/straight that was so ingrained in everything you people did and said. Perhaps she just wants to be accepted by her siblings and parents for whom she is, which is incidentally, a brilliant webmistress and well respected researcher/writer, and a very family oriented homebody.
I don't know, and can't really say, only can comment that you are perhaps one of hundreds of family's I know whom were torn apart by the Seed, and that DECADES later, still haven't completely healed the division.  That is unfortunate.

GregFL:
"The seeds of recovery were planted. I added the fertilizer later. That's where they came up with the name, catchy, eh?"

Thom, you really are welcome here, but....YECHH!!!! That is so obnoxious it is almost rancid.

And how do you know, from my one posting, and having never met me, that I had no substance abuse problem as an adolescent?
Well Thom, from your post, I made an assumption that you started drinking etc, after you left the Seed. If I am wrong, I certaintly stand corrected. No one is trying to diagnose you, calm down a little.
But all inference was made by you that your problems occured later in life after graduating the Seed, which incidentially, is VERY common.

" OK, now I really feel welcomed and appreciated, thanks. I haven't felt this welcomed since the last time I tried to visit Ginger......
You are welcome here irrespective of differences in views. Again, Thom, how unfortunate that this issue still divides your family to such a great extent 20 years later.
 "You seem to know alot about my family for someone who knows nothing about my family. Please allow me to enlighten you a bit...... FYI,  I was the only 'Seed Freak' in the brood.... 3 others attended, but were never really into it, as I recall. When Ginger left (escaped)....... against the wishes of both of our parents.  We have all tried to bond with her.... her siblings didn't do anything to her, yet, we are blessed with the honor of feeling the full force..... We were not torn apart by The Seed If anything, it slowed some of us down a bit, so we could make it to adult-hood without suffering too much brain damage. Yes, Virginia, there really was a drug abuse problem in our family.
Well Thom, I hav spent hours talking with Ginger, and your reality is different from your sisters. You call her all kinds of names in this post like paranoid, etc., and seem to refuse to acknowledge that she may have been harmed by her experience. I think perhaps if you put the gauntlet down, tried to UNDERSTAND what she went thru, how whe processed HER experience, and dropped the defense, maybe you guys could heal. Than again, unfortunately, Maybe not.You seem to also have retained some of that confrontational style of communication so prevalent in that nuthouse down on 84th st.
Thom, I wish you nothing but the best. No one is trying to diagnose you, and I am not challenging your assertion that the Seed somehow was good for you, in spite of your self admittance that after graduating you became an alchoholic,a gambler and whatever else.  If that is how you wished to spend your childhood, motivating, singing zippydedodah, staying up all night, eating P&J, sitting in a 100 degree wearhouse and hanging around Artie & Co, and watching young people's will break under the weight of "Treatment", than more power to you, Thom.
 
Final thought, some people go thru similar things and view the outcome and experience far differently.  I am willing to start communicating with you on that premise. Try it with you sister.
Thom, I look forward to your future posts and hope that they are in the spirit of good communication. I will try also.

Scott Free:
Thom - After reading that lengthy diatribe, I have come to the conclusion that if your sister talks to you at all these days, you should get down on your knees and thank your God you've GOT a sister like her.

I wish I did.

marcwordsmith:
Thom, I remember, in high school, a year or two after the Seed, some of the other former Seedlings said things like what you said. "Well, it just kept me from falling on my ass; that's all." This they said when they were smoking weed again. And they also seemed to feel that it had been no big deal.So to me it's still a mystery. There are so few ex-Seedlings on this site; it would be very interesting for me to understand what a wide range of others' experiences were truly like, for them. My own experience, as I have shared, was awful, and I am very grateful to Ginger for providing this space. But I'll acknowledge that I learned a thing or two in the Seed, perhaps indirectly . . . such as the price you pay for not being true to yourself. (Or for being forced to be untrue to yourself . . . which in later years, I didn't ever let happen again.) And I'll also acknowledge that I was doing some things at age 14 that were probably not particularly wise (skipping school, smoking dope, etc.), though it must also be said that I was one of those kids who did A LOT MORE drugs once I got out of the Seed, and went through a terribly self-destructive, self-loathing period for some years. Yet, in an odd way, I wouldn't trade the experience now, because I'm happy with who I am and where I'm at today, and if what I've been through brought me here, then I'm grateful for all of it, and that's the bottom line.I truly do hope you post again, Thom, and I also hope that you and your sister find some way to appreciate each other's gifts, or at least respect each other's integrity and intelligence. Maybe you two have been emailing since your respective posts; I rather hope so, and I hope it's been civil. Vipers, savages . . . whatever it is your father called you, you're obviously one heck of an articulate brood. You've clearly got brains, and I think you have heart too, and I hope we'll be able to converse together in a way that's truly respectful and loving, even when we have different opinions and interpretations of events. Insofar as we slice each other up, I think we're really perpetuating the legacy of the Seed. And Thom, if that isn't how you remember it . . . like I say, though it's a big mystery to me, I have no doubt that there may be others who also remember it more benignly than I do. One more point though, and then a question. I think you might concede that Straight, and some of the other programs described in this forum, were/are much worse than the Seed. And Ginger did go through Straight, so I think her experience may have been much more severe than your own. Question: Why were you at the Seed for 4 years? You said you "went to meetings" there for 4 years. Do you mean oldtimers' raps? Or did you have to start over a number of times? Just curious.

Anonymous:
Thom,
   
   Before I start, I would just like to say that all you post are appreciated, and welcome here. There are may people that even more misguided then you that post here. Just because you opinion differs does not mean we don't appreciated you. You words of "Wisdom" will be well read and thought over, after all that is what we are here for. After all if we all agree it's no fun and a dull conversation.
   
   I don't usually post to these boards. I leave that to those who would get the most out of them, I am more of a lurker, but because of the kind of guy I am, I just have to set the record straight.
   
      First of all, your last visit, the first in several years (even though you had driven past our door steep many a time without uttering a word or saying hello, which I guess is your way of "reaching out") was pleasant, at least I though so, until the discussion got heated when during your recantation of The Seed (which had no substance what so ever, imagine that) you were stating, and continuing to support the idea that alcohol is not a drug. You did not like the fact that Ginger would not concede on this point and left the house in a huff. No, you did not hug the kids, as a matter of fact you had one foot in the car before you wife could make it out the door. I never saw a "disabled" guy move so fast (I guess ppl would have gotten their mail on time had you moved that fast as a postman). And coincidentally alcohol is a drug, so get over it!
     
      BTW: You are not the only sibling to be within a mile of our doorstep and not bother to stop or even let us know you were in town until you had returned home. You all did it, and so often, I can't even keep count. I guess that is what "Reaching Out" is all about!
     
      And the term Tag-team, I could have not come up with a better term my self for what you 5 other siblings do to Ginger. All any of you can do is berate, ridicule, and slander her not only behind her back (yes, I heard may a things during some of those family get-togethers that others thought they said in quiet), but in her face as well. Now you want to lay it out in a public forum under the guise of "reaching out". I'd tell ya to buy a clue, but you would know what one was if it jumped out your ass and pimped slapped you upside the face!
     
      For a family that is not broken it seem weird that when you father died, all you could do is Burn all of the most valuable shit he had, his books and writings which he had collected through the years. There was tons of knowledge there for you to learn from, but they would not have scored any brownie points with "MOM", and just seem worthless to you all. "Dad was a great man", you all would say, then spit on the ashes of that we had collected for you. You showed him no real respect, I heard it all "Yea Dad what ever, talk to ya later". The fact is that you resent Ginger for having what I think was the closes relationship with your father then any of you. She respected and revered him, not just because of his fight with the post office, but for the many other things that he said and did. All the while you and you kin were standing in the back and snickering, saying "The old man is crazy". The only difference between him and Ginger is that you didn't have the guts to say it to his face. Oddly enough, even though scoring brownie points with mom seems top priority, nobody seem to really like her either, they are just hoping to some day inherits what ever the Seed/Straight hasn't left. And don't give me that shit like "well I go to see my mother", yes you drive there, then do everything you can to avoid really being with her. ahhhh the sounds of a loving family!
     
      And not every one feels the same as you about your family. Jack has said on many occasion that he feels like an outcast in the crowd. And for a family that is so happy why is there not one sibling within 2 states of another?
     
      You have also stated that since your father had not gotten any "Love" he did not know how to give it in return, well..... I feel sorry for your kids, because profits live their fortunes.
     
      I have never been to a Straight/Seed meeting, but from what I've heard and read, your posts make me feel like I have been to an open meeting. It seems that all you can give is hate and resentment. Take my advice; Be less condescending, listen more then you will get respect and love instead of the resentment and hatred that you spawn now.
     
      You are not addicted to drugs, alcohol, or gambling, rather you are addicted to addiction. Or should I say the treatment of addiction. I think you problems is that instead of fixing your own life, you feel the need to be with people that make you feel superior, and that you can berate them without guilt because you are better then they are.
     
      I know the truth hurts, and by this point you are really pissed. So kick back, pop another Prozac, relax, and give me your best shot. Show all these nice people what a real ass you can be, I already know, I've lived it.
     
      PS: Just so that you know that I am kind of heart, I could go on and on and on and on about all the bull shit that Ginger has had to put up with in this family. An how often you attempt to make her feel like a pariah, a total worthless out cast, and some time with excellent results, As Loie would say "Good For You".
     
      But first, how many typoes can you find? I got the preperation H.

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