Author Topic: Parents should be held accountable!  (Read 4748 times)

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Offline Carey

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Parents should be held accountable!
« on: October 11, 2003, 10:10:00 PM »
Karen stated on another thread:

Quote
No one would agree to the kind of cutting off thats actually takes place if they understood it from the start.


I think it is funny that you say this. You know why? The reason is, and so you will know, I too am very much against these programs, however, probably 90% or more of the parents that I have spoken with in regard to the limited communication and the length of time that lapsed before they were able to talk to their child, chose to leave their child in the program for much longer than what the "enrollment agreement" stated was the norm. Why did such a high number of these now disgruntle parents go along with it when it became a reality? So as you say "no one would agree to the kind of cutting off thats actually takes place" then why did it take them so long, like months, to say "hey something is not right here."

I agree in a moment of desparation a parent might make a poor decision about the placement of their child in a program, but after the dust settles why do they then not start to see the signs? Why has it taken a lot of these disgruntle parents so long to see what was happening?

We even know of one parent, someone you and I both know, who made trips to Dundee, and yet left her child there for a year, and is now speaking out against them. WHY? Why did it take a year? Why did it take Amberly 6 months, after resigning (a total of 10 -12 if you add her time at Dundee) to speak out against Dundee? Why with what all has been discovered did it take these two people so long to speak out? Were they afraid for themselves? That is the only thing I can figure. Here you have two adults, actually three given Randall, who could have saved a lot of children a lot of pain and suffering much sooner.

I am so tired of adults who now play the blame game and today act as though they are so righteous. Once again, I think it is a save your butt senario, just like the PURE save your butt senario. I question whether any of these individuals motive is that of protecting children.
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Offline kaydeejaded

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2003, 12:20:00 AM »
Yes Yes Yes I think that they should be held accountable fuck that I know they should be and so what IF and that is a mighty big if 10min after you left the program and you can't call your kid you now know you can't

this is a cop-out a way out of actually raising you child so then maybe later on you can turn around and blame the program and be the victim

when all along the children was the victim

1st by the parent
then by the program
the by the selfish histronic parent getting sympathy for their "victimization by the program"

grow up parents accept your role your the parents
what would you have done in the "good old days" when you couldn't ship your children off everytime you couldn't do it

the only victims here are the kids
the only ones who need help are the parents
the only ones who need a program are the parents

your children are a direct reflection of you if you don't like what you see then it is your problem

who raised them? Does that bother you? Glad you can't send me to treatment concerned parents.

Never let your sense of
    morals get in the way of
    doing what's right
--Isaac Asimov

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don\'t, none will do

Offline Carey

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2003, 10:37:00 AM »
Yes...hold the parents accountable.  Then other parents will see what can happent if they do not put their childs care and their childs desperation before their own.
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Offline MelissaR

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2003, 02:13:00 PM »
All this is about is you vs. your ex husband Carey.... You really don't give a flying fuck about kids in WWASP or your OWN kids really, you're just all about revenge on your ex... The only reason you flew down to get your kids was because this is all a game with you and your husband. That's horrible, I feel so bad for your kids. You make me sick.
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Offline Antigen

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2003, 03:57:00 PM »
Melissa, are you a mind reader or a shrink?

Folks, there is no getting around accaountability on the part of the parents. None. Doesn't matter the degree of culpability from one individual to another or even if they ever acknowledge it.

When you get older and start to get over the initial shock of realizing that any one of these new boyfriends might well wind up being your grandchildren's father, you start to take a different view of things.

My heart's dearest wish for the families who get chewed up and spit out by these sadistic cults is that they find a way to patch things up for the sake of the next generation.

I don't even care if anything horrible never happens to the people behind WWASP. I'd be very well satisfied with shipping them all off to a pleasant little resort together where they would not have access to harm any more families.

Haven't we all been hurt enough? I'm tired. I hope ya'll will consider leaving the vengence to the powers that be.

Come to the woods, for here is rest. There is no repose like that of the green deep woods. Here grow the wallflower and the violet. The squirrel will come and sit upon your knee, the logcock will wake you in the morning. Sleep in forgetfulness of all ill. Of all the upness accessible to mortals, there is no upness comparable to the mountains.
-- John Muir

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Offline Anonymous

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2003, 05:48:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-10-12 11:13:00, MelissaR wrote:

"All this is about is you vs. your ex husband Carey.... You really don't give a flying fuck about kids in WWASP or your OWN kids really, you're just all about revenge on your ex... The only reason you flew down to get your kids was because this is all a game with you and your husband. That's horrible, I feel so bad for your kids. You make me sick."


Seems the PUKE ACTIVISTS are breeding hate-mongers faster than you can say WWASPS. I feel sorry for Melissa and all the kids who were and still are being victimized by people on both sides.  It's a sad day when children are recruited to spew HATE-FILLED thoughts and feelings and I for one, hope they will heed the kind advice of the founder of this forum who is surely trying her best to encourage tolerance for different points of view.  

 :sad:
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Offline Antigen

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2003, 07:25:00 PM »
Thanks for the kind words. I should also note that, but for dumb luck and circumstances, I might well have been on staff if I hadn't split when I did. And the author at thestraights.com was once a program parent and that Richard Bradbury dude who the Semblers are trying to shut up WAS on staff when he woke up and came to himself again.

It's a gray area. The story needs to be told and there's no getting around that this is going to bring on a lot of hurt to different people. Let's all just be as judicious as we can with it.

The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.
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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline anon

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2003, 08:38:00 PM »
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Offline Carey

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2003, 10:14:00 PM »
Karen, I guess you are asking me what I mean when I say parents should be held accountable.  It only has one definition that I know when used in the manner it was used.

It means the same thing for parents as it means for the escorts, the consultants and the programs.  It applies to all the same.  Accountability - required to account for one's conduct.
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Offline anon

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2003, 12:15:00 AM »
[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-19 12:56 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2003, 02:59:00 AM »
i for one would put them in jail if they suspeceted or known about abuse taking place where they shipped their kids off to. Their is actually a law on the books that says just that. Also i would like to see the parents pay for the many years of councling it may take to help the kid recover from the program. Also i would love to see the parents sued if they hired kidnappers "escorts". And abused the state laws by sending the kid out of state to avoid the state laws. Thats accountablity for the Parents!!!!
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Offline Anonymous

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2003, 08:42:00 AM »
Quote
Now tell me, how shall I be accountable? What is it you would have from me (or anyone) that would satisfy you? Not that I am in any way accountable to you - But still, what would you require?

How you should be held accountable is not up to me.  It is up to God for now.  I suppose it could be up to a judge and jury at some point, but that too is not up to me.

I don't have all of the answers, I wish I did, but I don't.  But I do beleive that the key to stopping all of the madness is to hold the parents accountable for their part in it.  I think as long as there are insane parents, easily influenced parents, parents who have the need to control, then there will always be a supply of these programs.  How do we stop whats going on, we hold parents accountable.  They are the ones that are making the choice.  There will always be those out there like Litchfield, who for the might buck, will carry out the service if parents are willing to pay.  Like I said in another thread, it is all about supply and demand...if there is no demand...then there will be no supply.

Quote
You see, from my perspective - I have been accountable. I have accounted for my thoughts feeling and actions threw out the entire episode.


That is all good! I mean that, sincerely.  I did not list everything else you have done (didn't want to take up space) and that is all good too.  But stopping WWASP will not stop program abuse.  It will not stop parents who are desparate from finding another abusive alternative program.
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Offline Carey

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2003, 08:53:00 AM »
That was me!

Let me add this, look at all of those luney-tunes out there right now who are working on "blind trust", don't you think if they thought they could be held accountable "if" their child was being abused, they might want more than just "blind trust" to work off of?
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Offline Antigen

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2003, 12:52:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-10-13 05:53:00, Carey wrote:

"That was me!



Let me add this, look at all of those luney-tunes out there right now who are working on "blind trust", don't you think if they thought they could be held accountable "if" their child was being abused, they might want more than just "blind trust" to work off of?"


Carey, what do you think about parents who blindly trust their pediatricians and allow their babies to receive dangerous vaccinations that leave them hopelessly autistic?

Just a few years ago, the heretical view was that any mother who would question the conventional wisdom and refuse vaccinations was either a religious nut or a dangerously negligent mother. Now it's starting to come out that these safe and trusted vaccines actually are dangerous and are more likely to seriously harm some children than the diseases we're trying to prevent.

Now, all along the way, for decades, there have been doctors, researchers, pharmaceuticals and parents who are guilty of failure to do due dilligence. We all just trust eachother, right? Blindly. Do what everyone does, right?

Now the medical people and the pharm people just go about their merry way, wouldn't even recognize their victims if they tripped over them panhandling on the street 40 years later. But the parents are still the parents. There's no getting away from it for them. They get to live out their old age reflecting on what might have been if they had been just a bit more skeptical.

They don't need to be punished any more. We just need to let make next generation of parents understand the danger.

One more thing. I don't know if there's anything to the accusations that this is all about getting back at your ex or not. Frankly, I'd understand very well if you're enraged at him and completely unable to understand why he did what he did and how he can possibly hold to notion that it was the right thing. I know parents who, decades later, will still tell their adult child that they'd do it again. Incomprehensible to me. And my own mother's one of them!

However, most of them eventually come around, at least to some degree. Their kids are luckier than the others. I get to see it from both perspectives.

I think some of your critics have a good point when following your reasoning to the next logical step. If your ex is that big a sadistic asshole and/or that negligent in trustng WWASP, then aren't you just as liable for trusting him?

If you get right down to it, damned near everyone is liable, complicit (at least by silence) in this criminal industry. Am I at fault for not speaking out 20 years ago? Maybe. I know I feel a pang of guilt very often when I read some sad story that happened just a couple of years ago or about someone like you and your kids who are living it now. Aren't you mad at me for cowering away and not giving you the heads up?

This could go on forever.

If you want to destroy market demand for these demented little cults, there's one sure way to do it. Make sure the public knows just what they're about. Just the facts, ma'am. Whether you're ready now or able ever to understand it, they do recruite the parents through manipulation and trickery. That only works if the mark doesn't know the scam. So let's just do all we can to get the word out on the scam and let the powers that be deal with whatever retribution might be in order.

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Carey

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Parents should be held accountable!
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2003, 03:28:00 PM »
Ginger, my argument has nothing to do with my ex, I can assure you of that.  No matter how I feel about him and what he did, he is still the father of my children.  I hope that one day he will be able to reestablish his relationship with them.  

The difference between me and those who attack me is that I am not in this for revenge.  I am in this for the teens.  Unfortunatly for them, I see them as part of the problem.  I know that is why they are trying to discredit me in any way they can.  They don't want to look bad based on their own ignorance.  I can not help that.  Like I said I am not in this for them, I am in this for the children.  Look at what they have reverted to over the last few days.   They can not argue their case, so they revert to name calling.  I think their "desparate" behavior is and was very immature.  It really does not bother me, because I am not worried about me, I am worried about the teens.  I am an adult and I can take their verbal attacks.

As far as the immunizations thing goes, I don't see the camparison.  I think the two situations can not be compared.  Yes, doctors can be wrong.  Yes, modern medicine and new studies can change the over all view of past opinions.  But let us remember that the over all industry is regulated.  I do not think the parent who trusted the pediatrician who recommneded the immunization should be held accountable.  She was trusting in an individual who had studied medicine.  Someone who spent years training.  She was trusting a vaccine that had been tested and approved by the FDA.  The parents who put kids in programs are trusting uneducated people.  The parents who put kids in programs are trusting an unregulated, unproven theory of "behavior modification."  The two are not camparable.

Now, had a parent placed their child in a program and it was based on the referal of a psychiatrist, psychologist or judge, then I don't think the parent should be held accountable.  But I do think the professional who did the refering should be.
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