My son at Aspen Ranch

[try another castle]

Hitting another person is a very big deal.  I have seen people get very upset on this site for just restraining or holding a kid with no hitting involved at all.

Lets wait and see what the facts are.

Ok.. allow me to grok this completely, here. You're comparing two teens getting into a fistfight to someone in a facility being restrained and manhandled by the people in charge of them who are supposed to be responsible for their safety.


There's this strange obscure thing called an authority dynamic...maybe you've heard of it.

Besides, its kind of hard to fight back when you have several people on top of you and you cant even fight for  yourself. Whether that happens in an institution or in the real world, that IS a big deal. Group fights are absolutely a big deal.

Two kids duking it out? meh.

But you know what? If  you think its serious, that's totally cool with me. Seriously, it is. Getting into a fight sucks. Ive been on both ends of a flying punch.

My issue is the fact that a parent says its ok when someone says they cant see their kid. They allow someone else, who isnt even a parent, to be a mediator.

[TheWho]

I don't think I could have said it any more eloquently than TAC.

Communication with parents should never be used as a punishment, period.  That's not to say that it isn't a common practice in programs of all kinds, but it is to say that if it's not the #1 red flag of a problem program, then it's pretty high up there.  And it's less a matter of what your son is going to say when he's on the phone, it's about your role as a parent.  It shouldn't be up to the program to punish your son, that's your job as his parent.  And if the program were doing their job, they would be preparing both you and him for the inevitability of how you plan on disciplining him when he does come home.  

Again, ditto TAC.

It sounds like many here are just trying to turn Nigel against Aspen Ranch.  Its really not that big a deal...

[try another castle]

I don't think I could have said it any more eloquently than TAC.

Communication with parents should never be used as a punishment, period.  That's not to say that it isn't a common practice in programs of all kinds, but it is to say that if it's not the #1 red flag of a problem program, then it's pretty high up there.  And it's less a matter of what your son is going to say when he's on the phone, it's about your role as a parent.  It shouldn't be up to the program to punish your son, that's your job as his parent.  And if the program were doing their job, they would be preparing both you and him for the inevitability of how you plan on disciplining him when he does come home.  

Again, ditto TAC.

It sounds like many here are just trying to turn Nigel against Aspen Ranch.  Its really not that big a deal...

Once you figure out what this "it" is, please feel free to educate.


Although I don't give a clod of goo what Nigel's relationship is with aspen. I just can't figure out these people who let others dictate when they are allowed to be a parent again.


Good luck after graduation, Nigel. Hope it works out.

Seriously

[Anonymous]

I forgot to answer one of Psy's questions about the levels.  My son  has complained about the decisions regarding advancement in the levels as being subjective.  He claims that because a certain individual hates him, he will never advance in his levels.  There is some truth in this (and thus a catch 22).  While there are requirements to pass through the levels, the therapists make the final decision.  For the last 3 years, whenever my son has had trouble accomplishing something, he has always blamed others.  I will continue to encourage my son to figure out a way to make this work (he is going to have to deal with all sorts of people throughout his life, and he can't constantly blame his failures on the fact that someone doesn't like him).  That being said, I will continue to monitor the situation and see if there is some merit to his complaints.  

In answer to those that have asked "do I love my son?"----YES.  I made this decision out of love, but I am not blind to the fact that this might have been a bad decision, thus I am on this forum asking for opinions.  I am sure that those that have read my posts can tell that I deeply love my son.  I will post again next Monday after I talk to my son.

[psy]

I forgot to answer one of Psy's questions about the levels.  My son  has complained about the decisions regarding advancement in the levels as being subjective.  He claims that because a certain individual hates him, he will never advance in his levels.  There is some truth in this (and thus a catch 22).  While there are requirements to pass through the levels, the therapists make the final decision.

Is it the therapists who make that decision or the program owner, because there's a big difference.  If it's the program owner ultimately "ok"ing or vetoing advancement it leaves a much greater possibility that there is a financial motive for keeping the kids back.

For the last 3 years, whenever my son has had trouble accomplishing something, he has always blamed others.

And don't you think they know that?  They know that he can complain about all anything he wants to and you won't believe him because he's "cried wolf" in the past.  Well.  Sometimes the wolf is actually there.  If the boy is complaining about not advancing in the program maybe, just maybe, it's actually not his fault.  Maybe just maybe he's acting out (if he is) because he sees it doesn't matter.  You could see it as an act of protest in such a case.

Let me ask you this: does the program encourage you to tell your son that he is not coming home until he learns to "follow the program"?  Is it possible that coaching is just as much as getting you to commit to the program as it is about removing any hope from your son?

I will continue to encourage my son to figure out a way to make this work (he is going to have to deal with all sorts of people throughout his life, and he can't constantly blame his failures on the fact that someone doesn't like him).

And if he's telling the truth you're emphasizing a teaching common in may programs: everything in life that happens to your is your fault.  What do you think your statements are going to make your child feel if it is genuinely not his fault he's not advancing.

That being said, I will continue to monitor the situation and see if there is some merit to his complaints.

Which is ultimately something you can't know for sure until your son is out of the program and no longer under potential duress.  What I would suggest is to keep posting and look into how other programs have operated to see whether or not Aspen Ranch fits the pattern.  Check the Benchmark site in my signature for example, or look at ISACcorp's warning signs.

Either way you look at it.  If he's not making progress in the program what's the point of keeping him there?  I guarantee he'll be grateful at the very least if you take him out.

In answer to those that have asked "do I love my son?"----YES.  I made this decision out of love, but I am not blind to the fact that this might have been a bad decision, thus I am on this forum asking for opinions.  I am sure that those that have read my posts can tell that I deeply love my son.  I will post again next Monday after I talk to my son.

I don't doubt you love your son for one minute and I'm glad you love him enough to actually investigate both sides.  Just keep an open yet cynical mind to all sides, weighing risk along with possibility.  If there's one thing I can't emphasize enough like the others here is to *never* accept a refusal to speak to your son on any basis.  Insist to speak with him without monitoring and see what happens.  For that matter, if you want to try and experiment, carefully suggest that you're considering removing him and see the ensuing scare tactics they'll pull with you.  Ask yourself whether their responses are borne out of genuine fear for your child or an underlying profit margin.

[Anonymous]

No, what he forgot to do is log back in. :beat:

[try another castle]

In answer to those that have asked "do I love my son?"----YES.

I believe you. (hopefully this is you. no sign in.)

I guess it just would be nice if you bothered to visit him on your own terms instead of aspens. This means, when you wanted to.

Means a lot more to a kid than just "monitoring."

I certainly don't think any one of us could convince you to pull your kid from aspen, and I wouldn't even try, cause its a sucker bet. But maybe if you would consider actually putting on your dad boots and set the agenda for when YOU are going to see YOUR SON, well, maybe it would remind him that you are the one who is Dad, not aspen.

You are still dad, right? They didn't have you sign over custody, did they? (not a sarcastic question. there are places that do this.)


Scenario thingie below:

About three months after I arrived at program I got into trouble... quite a bit, actually. I got all emo and cut up my arm and was put on isolation/restriction for 14 days. There is no doubt that this was not only a.) stupid, it was also b.) lame. This was about two days before parent visits. In fact, my parents had already arrived in Sandpoint, Idaho and a staff had to head them off at the pass to tell them to go home because they couldn't see me. (After my dad flew all the way from texas and my mom flew all the way from new york.) And they did. They turned around and went home.

The staff told me (well, screamed at me)  in a rap how disappointed and sad my parents were that they couldn't come visit, (I believe the word they used was "crushed") so I in no way believed that they didn't love me, and I felt a lot of pain about the fact that they were hurt. (really, I did)

Even though I was green-eyed that I was stuck digging in the dirt, moving around rocks and restricted to my booth writing list after list about what a horrible person I was, while other kids were hanging with their parents, I really didn't hold anything against my parents for their acquiescence. Part of the reason I got into trouble to begin with was to avoid seeing them, since it would have been the first time since I got sent  up, and I wasn't too thrilled to be with them.

BUT, it certainly sent a message.

And the message was:

Your parents are now your parents in name only. You're here now, and your ass belongs to us.

And the perception was that my parents also agreed with this sentiment.

And when I graduated, I also agreed.


There's a lot of screaming in programs. But the subtext in these places in infinitely louder.


This is by no means isolated to my own experience. This is what every single program teaches. If they didn't, then YOU would be able to set the agenda for visitation.


Anyway,  I admit the little anecdote thing is all boo hoo whiny emo crap. My point is, when you let the program be the primary parent, and kick you to the bumper seat, your send the message to your son that this is how it's going to be.. and soon he will believe you, because it's not just the program telling this lie to your child, you are, too, through your complicity.

Because that's what this is, isn't it? Complicity.


Which is why I say.. good luck after graduation... hope it works out.

[NIGEL]

Sorry about not signing in (I learned something new).

[Anonymous]

Uh, yeah.

You do know that Aspen just killed another kid, right? You can read the rest of this forum right?

Face it, whoever's playing Nigel: Any sperm donor dumb enough to buy into it wouldn't be posting here, and anyone not dumb enough would have bothered becoming more informed without needing to make a topic.

You can make Psy reply endlessly because he's an idiot, but you still fail.

Now get off the Internet and go back to murdering more kids.

[Anonymous]

I forgot to answer one of Psy's questions about the levels.  My son  has complained about the decisions regarding advancement in the levels as being subjective.  He claims that because a certain individual hates him, he will never advance in his levels.  There is some truth in this (and thus a catch 22).  While there are requirements to pass through the levels, the therapists make the final decision.  For the last 3 years, whenever my son has had trouble accomplishing something, he has always blamed others.  I will continue to encourage my son to figure out a way to make this work (he is going to have to deal with all sorts of people throughout his life, and he can't constantly blame his failures on the fact that someone doesn't like him).  That being said, I will continue to monitor the situation and see if there is some merit to his complaints.  

In answer to those that have asked "do I love my son?"----YES.  I made this decision out of love, but I am not blind to the fact that this might have been a bad decision, thus I am on this forum asking for opinions.  I am sure that those that have read my posts can tell that I deeply love my son.  I will post again next Monday after I talk to my son.

Throughout his life will he be caged without due process because he has an ingrate relative? While imprisoned, will he be tortured and be presented with the stipulation that the torture will be ameliorated, and his release be possible, only if he "rises in levels"?

If this will not be his adulthood, then, no, you are not preparing him for adulthood.

Luckily he is imaginary.

Brovo on back pedaling about denying phone calls as punishment.

If you are ever interested in writing a story about a kid who gets actual medical treatment, you'll need to involve an actual psychiatrist, instead of the "therapists" at ASPEN, and actual clinically legitimate therapy. Punishing one kid for the actions of another aint therapy, it's a tactic to break down psychological defenses and force compliance. Forcing "the group" into therapy because of the actions of a few members wouldn't be involved either. One supposedly too mentally ill boy isn't responsible for the behavior of another. No "denial" of out going phone calls would be involved, either. Nor only phone calls that are monitored. And there would be no “all day” therapy. In legitimate psychiatric hospitals groups are relative short in duration, not monster marathons used to stamp out unwanted behavior.

As a fiction writer you need much improvement, but for trolling fornits, it'll do.

[Anonymous]

I don't think I could have said it any more eloquently than TAC.

Communication with parents should never be used as a punishment, period.  That's not to say that it isn't a common practice in programs of all kinds, but it is to say that if it's not the #1 red flag of a problem program, then it's pretty high up there.  And it's less a matter of what your son is going to say when he's on the phone, it's about your role as a parent.  It shouldn't be up to the program to punish your son, that's your job as his parent.  And if the program were doing their job, they would be preparing both you and him for the inevitability of how you plan on disciplining him when he does come home.  

Again, ditto TAC.

It sounds like many here are just trying to turn Nigel against Aspen Ranch.  Its really not that big a deal...

John Reuben your son's dead. you killed him. you did this to your son :suicide: He did it after you imprisoned him at Academy at Swift river. Everyone knows what you did.

Call JD and ask how it feels to  murder his own son.
March 21, 2007) John David Reuben, Chairman/ Founder of Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (STICC), Sudbury, MA, 877-249-1336

[TheWho]

Throughout his life will he be caged without due process because he has an ingrate relative? While imprisoned, will he be tortured and be presented with the stipulation that the torture will be ameliorated, and his release be possible, only if he "rises in levels"?

If this will not be his adulthood, then, no, you are not preparing him for adulthood.

A child is kept in a crib... a play pen.....back yard.... and their home (caged as you call it) until the child matures to the next level.

Our whole life is level systems!  You progress through constant level systems as the child proves themselves.  When you learn to not get food all over your shirt you move up a level and your parents remove your bib and if you start getting food all over you again then the bib is put back on until you get better at feeding.  It isn’t designed as a punishment…

The same with driving.  When you get a permit you drive with an adult then you move up a level to drive on your own with no other teens in the car and then finally if you don’t get any violations you are allowed to move up to the final level of driving on your own.  There are consequences attached to breaking the rules.

[TheWho]

guess it just would be nice if you bothered to visit him on your own terms instead of aspens. This means, when you wanted to.

Very few places want parents to just show up.  Have you ever just dropped in on your kid in public school?  Said “hey he forgot his lunch money just wanted to say hey and chat awhile”.  What you would get is “thank you mister Jones we will see to it that he gets his lunch money”... you wouldn’t get past the lobby without a cory report being filled out on you and you would be denied and sent on your way.  You couldnt just wander around the school alone.

If you flew out to Aspen Ranch and walked in and said you wanted to speak with your son they would allow that.  They would not be happy because they have a strict schedule and if parents were showing up noon and night to visit nothing would get done.  Corporations dont allow this either.  You schedule meetings ahead of time so that everyone can prepare.

[try another castle]

guess it just would be nice if you bothered to visit him on your own terms instead of aspens. This means, when you wanted to.

Very few places want parents to just show up.  Have you ever just dropped in on your kid in public school?  Said “hey he forgot his lunch money just wanted to say hey and chat awhile”.  What you would get is “thank you mister Jones we will see to it that he gets his lunch money”... you wouldn’t get past the lobby without a cory report being filled out on you and you would be denied and sent on your way.  You couldnt just wander around the school alone.

If you flew out to Aspen Ranch and walked in and said you wanted to speak with your son they would allow that.  They would not be happy because they have a strict schedule and if parents were showing up noon and night to visit nothing would get done.  Corporations dont allow this either.  You schedule meetings ahead of time so that everyone can prepare.

Dude, are you serious or just fucking with us for your jollies? Public school? seriously? You're comparing public school to a program???


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!


Let me know when you are competent enough to understand the difference between 7 hours to a couple of years.

I personally think you're just fucking with us because you've got that itch to troll. Nobody could POSSIBLY be that clueless and stupid.


I hope you're not a parent. Your kid is in for a world of shit.

[TheWho]

Dude, are you serious or just fucking with us for your jollies? Public school? seriously? You're comparing public school to a program???

Unless there is an emergency a person cannot just walk into any school situation and dictate the times they want to visit with another person (family or no family).  Whether it be public school, private school, boarding school or program.  This applies across the board.  This also applies to corporations.  Not sure what you are use to but having people just come and go as they pleased is just not manageable in any situation.