My son at Aspen Ranch

[Anonymous]

This whole testing admissions thing is kind of ridiculous, anyway. I mean, what are they supposed to be screening for? Kids who will benefit from their practices?

There was a discussion awhile back about kids being placed into programs so that parents could get a break and go on vacation or because the kid was smoking pot or talking back...... if there were a screening process which was mandatory like a 3rd , independent, party were required to sign off on the placement like a therapist or school counselor then this would help to prevent placements for the wrong reasons and make room for the kids who would more benefit from the program.

shouldnt that read: " better benefit from the program"?

We apologize for the low quality of shills you are currently experiencing. Once we begin receiving more income, we will be able to afford shills with a better grasp of the English language instead of hiring H1-Bs.

[Ursus]

Elan will take anyone.....with cash.

See thats not right.  The places should at least require an evaluation from an independent source before taking a child.  How does Elan determine at the onset whether the child has a good chance of succeeding or not unless the child is tested?

These are some of the areas where laws need to be applied IMO.

This whole testing admissions thing is kind of ridiculous, anyway. I mean, what are they supposed to be screening for? Kids who will benefit from their practices?

It's no wonder they don't screen. they wouldn't have any students.

Oh, sometimes they do screen alright. Depends a lot on who does the screening. As y'all must know by now, there is a sizable enough contingent within the psychological community that is very pro-program. Some of those folk are even on Advisory Boards for programs and/or EdCon organizations. Conflict of interest, anyone?

Take a look at this "independent source" involved in "evaluating" Whooter's "daughter":

So we took her to McLean's in Boston (Belmont) where she stayed overnight for 3 days and then we were told she would be accepted.

McLean Hospital (originally known as the "McLean Asylum for the Insane") is, as Whooter well knows, a feeder institution for Academy at Swift River. ASR Executive Director Frank Bartolomeo, in fact, came to ASR more or less directly from McLean himself. Children's Group Therapy Association, where he was co-chair for awhile, is also closely linked to McLean. CGTA appears to function more or less as a private group practice using personnel from McLean.

Closely linked to McLean are some personnel from Children's Hospital in Boston, just a stone's throw or two across the Charles River, specifically -- in this case -- Dr. Sharon Levy. Here is her brief bio from STICC (Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative), an organization closely linked to Aspen Ed (ASR's parent company):

Sharon Levy, MD, MPH

• Director of Pediatrics for the Adolescent Substance Abuse Program at Children's Hospital in Boston
  [li]Associate Researcher, Center for Adolescent Substance Abuse Research

[/li][/list]

For those even the remotely bit curious, I'd highly recommend a visit to the STICC site to check out their "Our People" page. Be sure to scroll all the way down. HLA's favorite EdCons, anyone? Woodbury Reports, anyone?

Of course, the piece de la resistance is the intimate connection Whooter himself has to STICC. Savvy readers would do well to connect all the dots.

I had been mentioning this in the past (which everyone wanted to dismiss).  There are very prominent people from the psycological community who are speaking out in favor of the advancement of Therapeutic schools and the successes they have had.  I know of a few personally, locally, and from the University of Michigan.  As You pointed out they are getting the support of pediatricians from places like Childrens Hospital also.

Nice attempt at evoking credibility, Whooter, and twisting the intent of my post to boot.

Here is where Whooter first came across mention of the University of Michigan's influence on this industry (in the If You had the chance to speak at NATSAP thread, about two and a half months ago). That post read, in part:

...Well, I will not name names, but I can tell you that top Adolescent and child mental health professionals from the University of Michigan and affiliated colleges support, recommend and openly speak of Therapeutic Boarding Schools as viable solutions to families with children who fall within the “at risk” category.

The University of Michigan is also well respected in the mental health field. The people who recommend these places are not the back alley rubber stamp doctors that many think. If you look at the credentials of the directors of programs 20 years ago and then look today you will see that their education level has risen considerably are more respected by their colleagues and have moved towards a more clinical approach in their program modeling.

In order to effect change in this area you need to get the ear of some of these people at the top.[/list]

Despite what Whooter might have you believe, the person who posted that has some serious concerns about these kinds of places. Here is what s/he wrote earlier:

...I'm a mental health professional. I do not refer to these "schools" nor do I refer to edcons who refer to these "schools." "First do no harm."

But, the truth is that some do, and not the unlicensed or un-credible, either. There are some pretty well-respected psychiatrists who recommend placements at these places, out of ignorance, as psy pointed out.

The first time I ran across these places I was actually hoping to find a placement for a couple of kids who imo were not mentally ill, but they were acting up in self-destructive ways. The parents were not abusive or even neglectful, just ill-equiped to handle some very bright, very sensitive kids who were not fitting in very well at the local school or in the local community. I knew all they needed was some time to grow up and a little bit of homework supervision. A colleague recommended a TBS. I can say that I when I looked into what these places were doing, I thought it would be damaging and recommended some normal boarding schools for them, the kind with a telephone in the room and christmas and spring and summer breaks. It turned out just fine.

That was when I first encountered this industry. Since then, though, I have really become aware than my colleagues do refer. And I'm really not talking about mail order psy D's here, either, I'm talking full on, highly ranked medical school graduates. This is the only reason I feel speaking to these kinds of groups would be useful.

As a mental health professional I wish they were better regulated and overseen though, mostly just because as the laws become harsher and harsher regarding holding parents legally responsible for adolescent acting out, these places become attractive to people who would never have considered them even twenty years ago. So, to me, it's very frightening. I'm glad you will be heard. I hope you will find a way to be heard even more often by people who make these kinds of choices when it comes to kids.[/list]

Incidentally, this person is a registered user. Perhaps Nigel might want to consider contacting them for some more insight, although I'm not sure that they are still posting...

[TheWho]

I understood what you were talking about.  The source you mentioned doesnt say they were from The University of Michigan.  The person I know is from there.  We also talked about McCleans in Belmont and Pediatricians from Childrens hospital who also recommend TBS's.
I am sure there are professionals who would not recommend sending a child to a therapeutic school, as the example you gace us.  There are always people on both sides of the fence.

I think one area where we agree is that Nigel and other parents should gather as much information as possible from both sides.

[Ursus]

I understood what you were talking about.  The source you mentioned doesnt say they were from The University of Michigan.  The person I know is from there.  We also talked about McCleans in Belmont and Pediatricians from Childrens hospital who also recommend TBS's.
I am sure there are professionals who would not recommend sending a child to a therapeutic school, as the example you gace us.  There are always people on both sides of the fence.

I think one area where we agree is that Nigel and other parents should gather as much information as possible from both sides.

There are some in the healing professions who seem to forget that first and foremost credo:

"FIRST, DO NO HARM."[/list]

[TheWho]

There are some in the healing professions who seem to forget that first and foremost credo:

"FIRST, DO NO HARM."[/list]

I think they all remember and work to the same set of standards.  Many feel doing nothing is doing harm, like myself.  Therapeutic Boarding Schools dont do harm to people.  If a therapist sent a child back to public school and he got beat up would the therapist be going against the "Credo Do no harm?"

Ursus, your perspective is bias.  There are many ways to help a child and many ways they could be harmed by not acting correctly to protect them.

Think about it.

[Ursus]

Therapeutic Boarding Schools dont do harm to people.

Geez... now you are telling me what my experience was, eh? Some might call that sheer arrogance.

And no, not all therapists "work to the same set of standards" any more than all psychiatrists or all physicians work to the same set of standards. Maybe they are supposed to, but some of them are constrained by the group practice or HMO they're tied to, or heavily influenced by the philosophy of the particular medical school they went to and/or their thesis/fellowship/residency advisor. And... quite frankly, some of them have different economic backgrounds and present circumstances. Some of them even get quite significant kickbacks from pharmaceutical and prosthetic device companies, etc., not to mention pressure from certain companies regarding the tenuousness of their employment at whatever institution or organization they work for.

Why should the circumstances be any different for therapists, particularly since some of them work for and/or refer to these programs, enjoy certain perks from being on certain advisory boards, belonging to certain organizations, etc.?

But, I digress. Let's stick to the point. "First, Do No Harm." There are significant reasons why ethical therapists, who know what this industry entails (not all have bothered to examine it closely, believe it or not), refrain from making such referrals if at all possible, if ever they refer at all.

One of those reasons has to do with the simple fact that traumatic events often have aftereffects that are far more destructive and far longer lasting than the event, in and of itself, might logically appear to have. There are quite a lot of stories coming out of these places where people feel they have been traumatized by the experience, with some still traumatized, decades later.

[TheWho]

Therapeutic Boarding Schools dont do harm to people.

Geez... now you are telling me what my experience was, eh? Some might call that sheer arrogance.

See this is how I get mis quoted.  I never referred to your experience anymore than if you said TBS’s harm people that you were being arrogant and trying to tell my daughter what her experience was. I am not trying to be arrogant here.  It is a fact that Therapeutic Schools help people, That fact we cannot get around.  We are also aware that they harm people as you can attest to.  What is the balance?  Thats an unknown at this point.  How can we tell which person will get harmed and which will get helped?

The therapists and advisors that recommend placement are working to the same high standards that the ones that do not.  They just see their treatment options differently or believe in differing treatment plans, but they all work to the same standard of “First, do no harm” whether they place or not.  If a therapist recommends against placing a child in a TBS it doesn’t mean he/she has a lower standard or doesn’t want the best for the child even though it may be the best fit for him.  The therapist might think a different option is more beneficial.  This other option may still fall under “First, do no harm” in his or her eyes.

You may see several doctors for a cancer treatment and some may recommend different treatment plans from each other.  It doesn’t mean they have varying levels of ethics.

So yes I do agree with you that some doctors are on the take and others are not, but they all pretty much feel they are making the best decision for their patients.

[TheWho]

Sorry, got the quotes wrong on previous post...
I wrote:

Therapeutic Boarding Schools dont do harm to people.

Geez... now you are telling me what my experience was, eh? Some might call that sheer arrogance.

See this is how I get mis quoted.  I never referred to your experience anymore than if you said TBS’s harm people that you were being arrogant and trying to tell my daughter what her experience was. I am not trying to be arrogant here.  It is a fact that Therapeutic Schools help people, That fact we cannot get around.  We are also aware that they harm people as you can attest to.  What is the balance?  Thats an unknown at this point.  How can we tell which person will get harmed and which will get helped?

The therapists and advisors that recommend placement are working to the same high standards that the ones that do not.  They just see their treatment options differently or believe in differing treatment plans, but they all work to the same standard of “First, do no harm” whether they place or not.  If a therapist recommends against placing a child in a TBS it doesn’t mean he/she has a lower standard or doesn’t want the best for the child even though it may be the best fit for him.  The therapist might think a different option is more beneficial.  This other option may still fall under “First, do no harm” in his or her eyes.

You may see several doctors for a cancer treatment and some may recommend different treatment plans from each other.  It doesn’t mean they have varying levels of ethics.

So yes I do agree with you that some doctors are on the take and others are not, but they all pretty much feel they are making the best decision for their patients.[/quote]

[Anonymous]

Therapeutic Boarding Schools dont do harm to people.

Geez... now you are telling me what my experience was, eh? Some might call that sheer arrogance.

See this is how I get mis quoted.

Classic exchange with TheWho. Whooter makes a blanket statement with no proof. Someone objects, based on their personal experience. Whooter backpedals and claims he was misquoted.

[TheWho]

Therapeutic Boarding Schools dont do harm to people.

Geez... now you are telling me what my experience was, eh? Some might call that sheer arrogance.

See this is how I get mis quoted.

Classic exchange with TheWho. Whooter makes a blanket statement with no proof. Someone objects, based on their personal experience. Whooter backpedals and claims he was misquoted.

This is funny....I may get accused of derailing here but... here goes:

No, what you mis read was Ursus took my quote as me trying to tell him how his experience was in the program.  When all I was saying is TBS's dont harm people... not meaning him personally.

Lets look at it a different way.  Lets say I stated "A nice walk in the park doesnt harm anyone"  and someone objected and said I was being arrogant because they were mugged in the park once.  Sure people get harmed everywhere.  I am not trying to say they dont, but TBS's are designed to help people and parks are designed to be a safe place for the public to gather and utilize.  But at the same time people do get hurt there, Ursus just took it the wrong way.  It is difficult to communicate via forum sometimes and this is an example of how I have been mis quoted in the past.

hope that clears it up!!  Did I back peddle ? lol

[Anonymous]

No, what you mis read was Ursus took my quote as me trying to tell him how his experience was in the program.  When all I was saying is TBS's dont harm people... not meaning him personally.

When you say TBSs don't harm people you are saying TBSs don't harm people. But they do. If you are saying Ursus doesn't count, whether he was harmed or not, because he's a bear, that's a different story.

Lets look at it a different way.  Lets say I stated "A nice walk in the park doesnt harm anyone"  and someone objected and said I was being arrogant because they were mugged in the park once.  Sure people get harmed everywhere.  I am not trying to say they dont, but TBS's are designed to help people and parks are designed to be a safe place for the public to gather and utilize.  But at the same time people do get hurt there, Ursus just took it the wrong way.  It is difficult to communicate via forum sometimes and this is an example of how I have been mis quoted in the past.

Are you saying being at a TBS is like a "walk in the park?" Now I've heard everything.

[TheWho]

No, what you mis read was Ursus took my quote as me trying to tell him how his experience was in the program.  When all I was saying is TBS's dont harm people... not meaning him personally.

When you say TBSs don't harm people you are saying TBSs don't harm people. But they do. If you are saying Ursus doesn't count, whether he was harmed or not, because he's a bear, that's a different story.

Lets look at it a different way.  Lets say I stated "A nice walk in the park doesnt harm anyone"  and someone objected and said I was being arrogant because they were mugged in the park once.  Sure people get harmed everywhere.  I am not trying to say they dont, but TBS's are designed to help people and parks are designed to be a safe place for the public to gather and utilize.  But at the same time people do get hurt there, Ursus just took it the wrong way.  It is difficult to communicate via forum sometimes and this is an example of how I have been mis quoted in the past.

Are you saying being at a TBS is like a "walk in the park?" Now I've heard everything.

Thats Funny!!  I didnt see the connection.  I guess some programs are "A walk in the park" compared to others.... and no I wasnt discriminating against Ursus because he is a bear lol.  Thats all we need is to gain a PETA mentality here.

[try another castle]

I'm sick of seeing people manipulated by this anonymous little twat.  You're talking to THE WHO.  What the fuck are you doing even bothering.  He's lied about so much else on this thread and represents practically every single guest post -- talking to himself even.  There's no point in talking to somebody like him.  He's a liar and a paid program shill.  You want to test whether a program will refuse a kid?  Try calling some up with fake kids and ridiculous problems.  Think about the kids who you were in program with... for being gay or what have you.  Minor quirks.  Interests the parents didn't like.  One times screw ups we've all been through.  Overreaction to that is a PARENTAL PROBLEM, *NOT* teen problems.  Some could have used help but didn't' get it.  The rest were just normal kids who ended up Munchhausen by proxy being drilled until they believed they had problems they didn't.  The programs don't care as long as they make money.  Whooter claims that doesn't apply to aspen programs, same as every program director in the past has lied about.  Why would you believe him.  Test it out.

He may be all of that, but for what it's worth, I think he is probably the best troll this forum has ever had. (since ive been here, anyway) I mean, he has seriously trolled the fuck out of all of you suckers. Half the people on this forum are jumping at ghosts, here's a who, there's a who. A fucking bounty was put out on his identity. (Possible I'll get a lengthy response as to the legitimacy of *that* endeavor. Don't bother. I don't care.) Any insult thrown at him was rebuffed by a curve ball that threw everyone into a tizzy. The threads would go into the hundreds, and they are still going. Not only that, he was smart and knew how to spell. In retrospect, it was downright beautiful.

It's pretty easy to troll this place, and his posts were a bit on the tl;dr for my tastes (but so are mine), but man, he has seriously pwned all of you.


The only thing that would make his trollery better would be if, in reality, he doesn't even have a kid and has no association with programs. Oh man, if that were true...  :tup:


So... am I talking to the who?

Do I motherfucking care?

Nope.

[Anonymous]

Ha,Ha,Ha...

[TheWho]

^^RobertBruce^^  Trying to provoke TheWho. Who ignore him please!!!!!