Can someone please call the FBI, CPS, whomever?

[Anonymous]

Chances are neither CPS or DRC would take any action, but at least you can put this on their radar.

Or they'll flag any critics of the program as complete lunatics for even suggesting a 10 pound bookbag on it's own is abuse.  People are prejudiced and "the boy who cried wolf" gets blamed on the group, sadly.

If ya read correctly, the implication's that this boy is being forced to carry a 10 pound "bag of books" all the time, to the extent that he is made  "uncomfortable" because he's bad, and has caused a situation which is completely out of his control, until he breaks, or whatever these parents are looking for. Please stop misrelating what’s in the post again, and again. This is in the greater context of the institutionalized setting, and in the WWASP institutions which are famously abusive.

Educate yourself about the cumulative physical and psychological effects of enduring discomfort or pain deliberately induced by a captor. Was Kat Whithead’s friend being forced to carry around stones not abuse, then? I can't believe I am explaining this on fornits!

If you are worried about being critics “in general” being "flagged as lunatics" based on what individuals say, you might want to reconsider calling A.A. a cult every other sentence, or ranting about never getting govt involved in protecting people from torment--which many people find pretty friggin “loony.”

[Anonymous]

Why don't you email someone at CAFETY directly instead of speculating here? I'm sure they'd be more than supportive and someone would be willing to make the call if you feel uncomfortable doing so.  Calling on investigators can be intimidating.

Try any of these people who have their emails listed:

http://cafety.org/board-of-advisors
http://cafety.org/board

I'm sure someone will help you.

This is what I am going to do.

[Anonymous]

Don't let the red admin title under psy's name convince you otherwise, the guy is certifiable. He lives for the red admin title under his name and he even told me it's his main purpose in life and he wouldn't know what he'd do if he didn't have fornits and all the people he met through here. It's sad really, because he is on many medications and still in treatment for persistent mental health problems.

If you assume psy is more intelligent or somehow representative of any anti program coalition you are mistaken. Antigen chose psy to admin because he is the only one who will do it for free and nerdy enough to know how. I talked to antigen about it, and she says he calls her often and sometimes accidentely calls her 'mommy'. What kind of person in their twenties calls someone 'mommy', even if by mistake? We are talking about some serious damaged goods here people.

To psy, a child forced to carry a weighted down backpack all day is not abusive, but staff not allowing for him to have his laptop, is. To psy, flying thousands of miles to stalk your former program and it's clients with a video camera is kosher, but names being posted of kids in a program is 'extreme'.  This place is so funny, keep it up fornits freaks, keep pumping the free entertainment out at this pace and I might cancel my cable.

[psy]

Chances are neither CPS or DRC would take any action, but at least you can put this on their radar.

Or they'll flag any critics of the program as complete lunatics for even suggesting a 10 pound bookbag on it's own is abuse.  People are prejudiced and "the boy who cried wolf" gets blamed on the group, sadly.

If ya read correctly, the implication's that this boy is being forced to carry a 10 pound "bag of books" all the time, to the extent that he is made  "uncomfortable" because he's bad, and has caused a situation which is completely out of his control, until he breaks, or whatever these parents are looking for. Please stop misrelating what’s in the post again, and again. This is in the greater context of the institutionalized setting, and in the WWASP institutions which are famously abusive.

Educate yourself about the cumulative physical and psychological effects of enduring discomfort or pain deliberately induced by a captor. Was Kat Whithead’s friend being forced to carry around stones not abuse, then? I can't believe I am explaining this on fornits!

If you are worried about being critics “in general” being "flagged as lunatics" based on what individuals say, you might want to reconsider calling A.A. a cult every other sentence, or ranting about never getting govt involved in protecting people from torment--which many people find pretty friggin “loony.”

Never called AA a cult.  Called it "cult-like".  Never said WWASP institutions weren't abusive of this program wasnt.  Just said a 10 pound bookbag ON IT'S OWN was not abusive.  I was very clear on this. reread my fucking earlier posts as I was very clear on this.

... idiot

[FemanonFatal2.0]

Currently we are working on creating a system to handle reports of abuse and putting together some material to grant advice to people who are trying to file complaints against an RTC...

No.  Cafety is chatting amongst themselves about what to do and politicians will humor them about it.  Anybody can make an organization.  Whether it does anything or not is relatively pointless.  Tell me this:  What has CAFETY actually accomplished?  What of consequence have they actually done?  Have they taken down even a single program?

Look Psy, you have no idea what CAFETY has been doing because you have taken no interest in working with them. It makes no sense to start brow-beating our fellow organizations just because you may not agree with their strategy.

The fact of the matter is CAFETY is a new organization, they are still getting their shit together, and meanwhile any advocacy work is volunteered between work and school schedules... I've been working pretty closely with them in the last few months and I still stand in awe with their dedication. Most times reaching into their own pocket to help this cause along or just helping people in general... I know there's no way for you to know this, but I invite you not to assume that they are simply "chatting amongst themselves" when you don't even care to be part of the conversation.

BTW, as I mentioned, CAFETY is currently working on a strategy to handle reports of abuse. An email account is being set up and one of us will handle the correspondence, this I assume will be mailing out pamphlets and emails containing information, advice and instructions. I'm sure that there will also be a member of CAFETY who would be willing to grant advocacy for serious complaints but for things like this report, we would only be able to compile complaints, testimony and evidence before we would have a case to file an official complaint against the facility.

I'm sorry you have so little faith in the government, I can't say I have much myself, but I do think there are enough good people out there that eventually we will be heard and changes will be made. Regulation is definitely not the be all end all solution, we are all aware of that, but really that's just the first step to completely outlawing the troubled teen industry. I don't understand how you could be in support of complete abolishment yet oppose the steps to get there. Even if regulation completely fails, as long as a monitoring agency is set up that is the biggest step we could take toward making some changes. That way things like this report about this boy and the 10 lb box will no longer go ignored.

I have to be honest here, your a bit out of line, all doom and gloom never changed anything. We may have limitations but we have to fight that, fight for the human rights of institutionalized youth. That's what CAFETY is doing, and sorry to say it but that's more than you are doing, so try to give them a little bit of credit.

[Anonymous]

Chances are neither CPS or DRC would take any action, but at least you can put this on their radar.

Or they'll flag any critics of the program as complete lunatics for even suggesting a 10 pound bookbag on it's own is abuse.  People are prejudiced and "the boy who cried wolf" gets blamed on the group, sadly.

If ya read correctly, the implication's that this boy is being forced to carry a 10 pound "bag of books" all the time, to the extent that he is made  "uncomfortable" because he's bad, and has caused a situation which is completely out of his control, until he breaks, or whatever these parents are looking for. Please stop misrelating what’s in the post again, and again. This is in the greater context of the institutionalized setting, and in the WWASP institutions which are famously abusive.

Educate yourself about the cumulative physical and psychological effects of enduring discomfort or pain deliberately induced by a captor. Was Kat Whithead’s friend being forced to carry around stones not abuse, then? I can't believe I am explaining this on fornits!

If you are worried about being critics “in general” being "flagged as lunatics" based on what individuals say, you might want to reconsider calling A.A. a cult every other sentence, or ranting about never getting govt involved in protecting people from torment--which many people find pretty friggin “loony.”

Never called AA a cult.  Called it "cult-like".  Never said WWASP institutions weren't abusive of this program wasnt.  Just said a 10 pound bookbag ON IT'S OWN was not abusive.  I was very clear on this. reread my fucking earlier posts as I was very clear on this.

... idiot

i see the point you are trying to make..it is a good one. I am sorry if I am was rude. So easy to loose your temper on the internet. Re-read the post of the father's. Its really not just an issue of a kid carrying a weighted bag.

[Anonymous]

Don't let the red admin title under psy's name convince you otherwise, the guy is certifiable. He lives for the red admin title under his name and he even told me it's his main purpose in life and he wouldn't know what he'd do if he didn't have fornits and all the people he met through here. It's sad really, because he is on many medications and still in treatment for persistent mental health problems.

If you assume psy is more intelligent or somehow representative of any anti program coalition you are mistaken. Antigen chose psy to admin because he is the only one who will do it for free and nerdy enough to know how. I talked to antigen about it, and she says he calls her often and sometimes accidentely calls her 'mommy'. What kind of person in their twenties calls someone 'mommy', even if by mistake? We are talking about some serious damaged goods here people.

To psy, a child forced to carry a weighted down backpack all day is not abusive, but staff not allowing for him to have his laptop, is. To psy, flying thousands of miles to stalk your former program and it's clients with a video camera is kosher, but names being posted of kids in a program is 'extreme'.  This place is so funny, keep it up fornits freaks, keep pumping the free entertainment out at this pace and I might cancel my cable.

Im all for stalking your former program. Psy is a great guy. I wish we all could be politer and easier on eachother,in general.

[FemanonFatal2.0]

Don't let the red admin title under psy's name convince you otherwise, the guy is certifiable. He lives for the red admin title under his name and he even told me it's his main purpose in life and he wouldn't know what he'd do if he didn't have fornits and all the people he met through here. It's sad really, because he is on many medications and still in treatment for persistent mental health problems.

If you assume psy is more intelligent or somehow representative of any anti program coalition you are mistaken. Antigen chose psy to admin because he is the only one who will do it for free and nerdy enough to know how. I talked to antigen about it, and she says he calls her often and sometimes accidentely calls her 'mommy'. What kind of person in their twenties calls someone 'mommy', even if by mistake? We are talking about some serious damaged goods here people.

To psy, a child forced to carry a weighted down backpack all day is not abusive, but staff not allowing for him to have his laptop, is. To psy, flying thousands of miles to stalk your former program and it's clients with a video camera is kosher, but names being posted of kids in a program is 'extreme'.  This place is so funny, keep it up fornits freaks, keep pumping the free entertainment out at this pace and I might cancel my cable.

Im all for stalking your former program. Psy is a great guy. I wish we all could be politer and easier on eachother,in general.

Yea I ditto that,  :hug:  for everyone!

The guy who posted that on the other hand.... has got to be THE biggest douchebag... obsessed much?... god get a fucking life.

[Oscar]

Making changes is a slow process and CAFETY is doing what they can based on the strategy they have chosen and respect for that.

Here in Denmark it took the organization of former children from Godhavn 5 years to get access to the people in the top of our political system. Now they got their investigation. We now know that beside the abuse, corporal punishment etc. they were also used as guinea pigs for new medicine, because as foster kids they could be dispensed.

Instead of critizing other watch-organization ignore them if you don't agree of how they operate. Sometime we at spft are happy to discover that our work is picked up and used by other organizations which can use our info to attack a program from an angle we didn't think of. I happened just this month with a program located on Fiji. Let's help each other instead of fighting each other. We don't care who gets credit for shutting a program down in the end as long as the progams go down.

In fact we have a challenges for some of you:

Is FET still in operation?
Is those houses the punishment cells in Mexico or are they from his persons present job?

[FemanonFatal2.0]

Is those houses the punishment cells in Mexico or are they from his persons present job?

that guy is totally creepy.

[Inculcated]

Yeah, ew, CREEPY in a very unsubtle way. I taste bile.
 Why is Che Gookin F*ing around posting family albums; when some of his creative rage could be constructively directed toward such a cause as this nasty bugger?

[Paul St. John]

I think that having to carry around 10 lbs a day to symbolize all the crabs you are carrying around is definitly abuse.  That goes without saying.  I mean, honsetly, it is sick and twisted, and I almost have to laugh at the fools with that come up with this shit.

And the woman who wrote that post about her son is basically crazy.  She's a fucking nut job, and if this poor guy makes it through to adulthood as a sane and good person, he will have accomplished much just in doing that.  It really is a shame that there are so many sick fucks in the world. I would love to see that bitch in a program..LMAO!


getting back to the whole crab thing.. It is not so much the weight that is the issue, but just the mere act.  It is psychological abuse.  Every second that this kid carries that rock around, he is taking physical actions to help them humilate and degrade him, and he has to continue to do it, and when those books get heavy, he has to fight to make a fool of himself.  And anyone who says that 10 lbs isn t heavy, I'd like to see you carry it around 24/7.  I have actually done it, but I did it as a workout.

But the FBI really doesn t care.  It is understandable to hear stories like these and just want to do something to help, but the FBI has other things to worry about, but a post on the internet.  How do you even know the post is legit?  I think it is and all, but how do you know?

My point of veiw, personally on putting an end to these atrocities, is through spreading the true facts about them, and giving them a bad public image.

Someone said that forcing this guy to carry these books around is not illegal.  You bet your ass it is!  There is at least 1 law, probably many more, that could be applied, but the problem is that laws are open to intepretation, and right noone is going to find the right laws and apply them.

Also, new laws can be made too.   And watch laws will eventually be applied, and perhaps, even new laws applied.

When the socail conscience turns against these places, the laws will applied.  It WILL happen.


I have heard the posters here at Fornits referred to as "Outlanders", but eventually, the ideas here in regards to these place will be the norm.  "Abolition" had to start somewhere, too.

Since I have been vewing this site and many others, I have heard many times about law suits and such.  I am not sure if any of them panned out,

BUT

If you work to spread awareness of these places and their reality, you are actually working towards a lawsuit, cause when the public image changes and people get involved and start to care.... you will not have to look for a lawyer willing to take your case. LAWYERS WILL BE CALLING YOU!!!  Perhaps, even the FBI, as well.

Paul St. John

[Anonymous]

I think that having to carry around 10 lbs a day to symbolize all the crabs you are carrying around is definitly abuse.  That goes without saying.  I mean, honsetly, it is sick and twisted, and I almost have to laugh at the fools with that come up with this shit.

And the woman who wrote that post about her son is basically crazy.  She's a fucking nut job, and if this poor guy makes it through to adulthood as a sane and good person, he will have accomplished much just in doing that.  It really is a shame that there are so many sick fucks in the world. I would love to see that bitch in a program..LMAO!


getting back to the whole crab thing.. It is not so much the weight that is the issue, but just the mere act.  It is psychological abuse.  Every second that this kid carries that rock around, he is taking physical actions to help them humilate and degrade him, and he has to continue to do it, and when those books get heavy, he has to fight to make a fool of himself.  And anyone who says that 10 lbs isn t heavy, I'd like to see you carry it around 24/7.  I have actually done it, but I did it as a workout.

But the FBI really doesn t care.  It is understandable to hear stories like these and just want to do something to help, but the FBI has other things to worry about, but a post on the internet.  How do you even know the post is legit?  I think it is and all, but how do you know?

My point of veiw, personally on putting an end to these atrocities, is through spreading the true facts about them, and giving them a bad public image.

Someone said that forcing this guy to carry these books around is not illegal.  You bet your ass it is!  There is at least 1 law, probably many more, that could be applied, but the problem is that laws are open to intepretation, and right noone is going to find the right laws and apply them.

Also, new laws can be made too.   And watch laws will eventually be applied, and perhaps, even new laws applied.

When the socail conscience turns against these places, the laws will applied.  It WILL happen.


I have heard the posters here at Fornits referred to as "Outlanders", but eventually, the ideas here in regards to these place will be the norm.  "Abolition" had to start somewhere, too.

Since I have been vewing this site and many others, I have heard many times about law suits and such.  I am not sure if any of them panned out,

BUT

If you work to spread awareness of these places and their reality, you are actually working towards a lawsuit, cause when the public image changes and people get involved and start to care.... you will not have to look for a lawyer willing to take your case. LAWYERS WILL BE CALLING YOU!!!  Perhaps, even the FBI, as well.

Paul St. John

thank you. Of course, FORCING KIDS TO WALK WITH A weighted bag all day, day after day, because they are "bad" to help develop a more submissive state in them is abuse.

[Anonymous]

Tell me this:  What has CAFETY actually accomplished?  What of consequence have they actually done?  Have they taken down even a single program?

Spreading the word, getting various organization to take notice. Indeed, systemic change is slow.  Shutting down one program doesn't create significant change at the end of the day.

Though, I suspect the testimony around Mission Mountain School had much to do with its shutting down.  But that means little at the end of the day...(sadly)
 As did work around Mount Bachelor.  So, strategically, that's less (though not entirely so) CAFETY's focus as compared to bringing the survivor and human rights perspective to the forefront on mental health discussion and other professionals.  Educating organizations to change their policy, work to get laws passed, for community based care, culture change, etc. is real change.  Not a band-aid, cause we can work on battling individual programs 'till the cows come home...  but, at the end of the say, it just doesn't appear to make a dent.  Unless it makes big news, but for that to happen, a number of factors coming together must occur. Namely, public pressure.  Thus, public education campaigns appear to be the place to start - increasing visibility and reducing stigma.  

Politiking and posturing may be one way of framing the work linked below, networking and connecting with people to share a vision that may hold the possibility for real change may be the other side of that same coin.  I guess it depends on how the strategy is perceived.  I, obviously, don't agree with that assesement.

I get the politking - eh, not sure harm there- politicizing the issue is critical for change.  The personal is political and all that jazz. The posturing... thats unclear to me.  Who posturing for what?  What posturing, exactly? CAFETY is a group that has been systemically disempowered seeking to empower themselves through supporting one another and educational efforts.  You may not be interested in being a part of the effort, but there's really no reason to negate the power many have unearthed from within themselves in connected with others and the work they have done.  Let us not forget, CAFETY is a group of individuals, made up of individuals - its members and people who work passionately for social justice.  And, for being around for such a short time, with limited resources, the accomplishments and respect earned from the professionalism and well thought out advocacy efforts are praise worthy.  Particularly considering that the majority of its members and leadership have survived, against all odds, all the issues that come from trauma (both before program experience, during and after).  Its actually quite remarkable.  I stand in awe and pride, giving credit where credit is due.  No other group has done what CAFETY has done.  And, not to say things couldn't be done better or growing pains aren't happening, and not to say that CAFETY is some super power.  But other haven't done it, and that IS the point.  And CAFETY yield power in the respect earned - nothing wrong with that. CAFETY has built roads and will continue to build roads, where none existed.  With the understanding that, if nothing else, all we have is our human connections.  Without them, we can't change a damn thing.

Better to light one candle than to scream in the darkness.

http://cafety.org/cafetys-accomplishments

[Anonymous]

I would like to add....

http://cafety.org/california-chapter

More productive than sitting around complaining about what happened.  Informing people is not only productive to the cause but enlightening on ones own experience, cathartic and validating to themselves and parents and other survivors that cross their paths.

xoxo