Can someone please call the FBI, CPS, whomever?

[Anonymous]

"My son seems to be so unbelievably comfortable down there that I requested to make him more uncomfortable. He is now carrying around a 10 pound box of books which is to symbolize all the crab he is carrying around. But he still doesn't get it. We decided not to go to the Family weekend because we don't see any results. Let's hope that works. But Keith, thanks a million for sharing your frustration. Sometimes I have the feeling we are the only ones being discouraged. It's good to see we are not alone."

This is proof of hideous child abuse. Actually, I am pretty sure it would be considered torture.

Can someone here contact the appropriate authorities?

[Anonymous]

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=27681

I got that info here ^^^^

[psy]

As described in that post, it doesn't seem like child abuse, torture, or in any way a criminal matter.  Sure it's probably pointless, but that's not necessarily torture.  10 pounds is not that much.  Not everything that happens in a program is child abuse and not everything is torture (at least by itself).

The real insidious stuff that goes on in programs generally can't be put in words... not because it's too horrible...  just because such psychological concepts and feelings are so hard to put into words... the stripping away of a person's beliefs, core values, even their very identity.  There is nothing more damaging or more long lasting than the mental effects.  Physical hurts heal quickly...  mental reprogramming, not so much...  and if you were a survivor, i'd suspect you'd know that, which is why...

I suspect your just a troll... probably one of the who's other personalities or some other agent provocateur.  If not.  Here's a tip:  the very very best way to blow your "case" is to make mountains out of moehills.  Do you seriously think that the goddamn FBI is going to give even the tinyest rat crap about a "troubled" kid being forced to carry a 10 pound book bag?  especially when law enforcement generally carry round much larger packs on long runs during training?  I don't.

What I care about is the cumulative effect of all the tiny things stacked up together into a program of thought reform (and physical/punative coercion generally does not factor into this unless it is to slowly weaken a person's resistance).  Individual acts and exercise on their own which are relatively harmless are built into a program to change the way people think, and who they see themselves as, without their knowledge or consent.

You want something to go after them for?  Try the angle of practicing medicine or psychotherapy without a license.  Use their marketing against them.  Record phone conversations with marketing looking for offers of "therapy" and specific claims about staff qualifications and the licensure of the facility itself.  Check everything with the state and appropriate licensing authorities.  Always ask for license numbers of credentialed staff and look them up.  Programs have and do lie about lots and lots of things and qualifications are no exception.  Become your own detective and only when you have a concrete case do you deliver it to the appropriate authorities.  You go with a 10 pound bookbag and if they don't outright laugh you out, they'll tell you that they'll "be in contact" and you'll never hear from them again.  It requires persistence, intelligence and a fighting spirit, not printing out a fucking forum message and handing it to the cops.

[Oscar]

We got permission to post Caroline Elise's story. While I agree that Sunset Bay Academy/Oceanside Teen center is bad for the teenagers who are detained at this facility High Impact was awful. Read and judge.

That doesn't mean that we should do something for the poor soles in Rosarito. Spft investigators have written boy-/girl-friends based on the Myspace profiles of present detainees to tell them where they can find their peers and some are in the neighborhood but it is a dangerous town, so we cannot be more informative.

[Anonymous]

As described in that post, it doesn't seem like child abuse, torture, or in any way a criminal matter.  Sure it's probably pointless, but that's not necessarily torture.  10 pounds is not that much.  Not everything that happens in a program is child abuse and not everything is torture (at least by itself).

The real insidious stuff that goes on in programs generally can't be put in words... not because it's too horrible...  just because such psychological concepts and feelings are so hard to put into words... the stripping away of a person's beliefs, core values, even their very identity.  There is nothing more damaging or more long lasting than the mental effects.  Physical hurts heal quickly...  mental reprogramming, not so much...  and if you were a survivor, i'd suspect you'd know that, which is why...

I suspect your just a troll... probably one of the who's other personalities or some other agent provocateur.  If not.  Here's a tip:  the very very best way to blow your "case" is to make mountains out of moehills.  Do you seriously think that the goddamn FBI is going to give even the tinyest rat crap about a "troubled" kid being forced to carry a 10 pound book bag?  especially when law enforcement generally carry round much larger packs on long runs during training?  I don't.

What I care about is the cumulative effect of all the tiny things stacked up together into a program of thought reform (and physical/punative coercion generally does not factor into this unless it is to slowly weaken a person's resistance).  Individual acts and exercise on their own which are relatively harmless are built into a program to change the way people think, and who they see themselves as, without their knowledge or consent.

You want something to go after them for?  Try the angle of practicing medicine or psychotherapy without a license.  Use their marketing against them.  Record phone conversations with marketing looking for offers of "therapy" and specific claims about staff qualifications and the licensure of the facility itself.  Check everything with the state and appropriate licensing authorities.  Always ask for license numbers of credentialed staff and look them up.  Programs have and do lie about lots and lots of things and qualifications are no exception.  Become your own detective and only when you have a concrete case do you deliver it to the appropriate authorities.  You go with a 10 pound bookbag and if they don't outright laugh you out, they'll tell you that they'll "be in contact" and you'll never hear from them again.  It requires persistence, intelligence and a fighting spirit, not printing out a fucking forum message and handing it to the cops.

i didn't bother to read your entire response. Stopped at "i expect youre a troll."

I can assure you forcing ANYONE to carry ten pounds of anything morning till night, for days, weeks, months, years, to force them to embrace a belief  and with the stated intention of causing suffering is a criminal manner.

Could you do that to a POW? No. As a point of reference, anything that would be illegal to do to a POW, or a convicted criminal, is likely to contstitute "abuse."  Cops CHOOSE to carry around bags, its not a "breaking" technique forced on them under threat of further imprisonment and greater torture because they are "so bad they need to suffer." Ridiculous comparison

Something near identical was done to Kat whithead's friend, and was one of the horrors presented to the GAO. (forced to carry rocks until she appeared to beleive she was a "sex addict")Its evil.

Any lawyers out there, or shrinks, or anyone with time or the initiative (CAFETY?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) interested in fowarding this to the appropriate authorities?
thanks

[Anonymous]

Psy, disillusionment is never easy.

Here, guest. Try calling them yourself. FBI, CPS, State Department. Let us know how far it gets you.

If the American authorities gave two shits about the basic rights of children there wouldn't be a Fornits.

[psy]

i didn't bother to read your entire response. Stopped at "i expect youre a troll."

Well then you sort of missed half the point.  Reread the post.  You're focusing on magnifying the details and not on how they fit into the puzzle of the bigger picture.  The authorities won't care unless you can show there is a pattern, and even then, they probably have their hands tied as each of these tiny things on their own don't constitute any sort of crime.

I can assure you forcing ANYONE to carry ten pounds of anything morning till night, for days, weeks, months, years, to force them to embrace a belief  and with the stated intention of causing suffering is a criminal manner.

But that's not what the post said, now did it?  Even if it did, it's double-heresay and completely inadmissible as evidence (you heard it from a parent who heard it from staff who heard it from etc...).  If you want to take the program out, reread my post and look to the latter portion for advice.  It's what's worked in the past and can work in the future.  The criminal angle does not work so well.  Civil action and appealing to licensing authorities, on the other hand, has had a fair deal of success.

[FemanonFatal2.0]

I remember there was a similar technique used in High Impact, I was forced to carry a bag of sand in a potato sack on my shoulders... Now granted this thing was at least 35 lbs and was extremely uncomfortable to carry, I bet the significance is still the same today as it was in my day at WWASP. to degrade and break the will into complying with confessions of issues that were outside the scope of logical.

I know this might sound unsympathetic, but its almost nice to see WWASP is cleaning up their act even in the slightest... I would have given my left arm to be allowed to carry just a 10 lb box. I think the point Psy made tho is important, you wont get anywhere telling the FBI that this boy is being abused because he is forced to carry a 10 lb box. The work we are doing, what CAFETY is working on, is encouraging legislation that will create an agency that is trained and knowledgeable enough to determine that this kind of thing is only the tip of the ice burg, and signifies the existence of psychological abuse in this facility.

I know some of you think regulation wont work, or will cause more problems, but its really the only option available to get an agency of the government to even understand our plight. I'll tell you, if I worked at CPS or the FBI I would take these reports seriously but that's only because I have personal experience with the innerworkings of a program like WWASP. At this point, the FBI and CPS have no interest in residential treatment programs and in most cases they don't have the authority to interfere with a private facility unless there is empirical evidence of abuse.
 
You want to spur an investigation that will free that kid?... go undercover. get some video footage of illegal and unethical activity, bring it to the cops who might have jurisdiction over the area the program operates in and make a formal complaint. Footage by inside edition is what got High Impact shut down and lead to the closure of CBS, the authorities in the area should already be aware of WWASP as a problem, it shouldn't be too hard to spur an investigation. You wont have a ton of options going to the police in the US, they dont have jurisdiction in Mexico, but you might be able to get somewhere with CPS, or another state accountability agency, they might be able to take on some of the negotiations with the authorities in Mexico. I would recommend California, they have the most comprehensive laws concerning child protection, theres a reason there are no WWASP facilities in CA.

[Anonymous]

The real insidious stuff that goes on in programs generally can't be put in words... not because it's too horrible...  just because such psychological concepts and feelings are so hard to put into words... the stripping away of a person's beliefs, core values, even their very identity.  There is nothing more damaging or more long lasting than the mental effects.  Physical hurts heal quickly...  mental reprogramming, not so much...  and if you were a survivor, i'd suspect you'd know that

Stop being such a drama queen. What you went through does not warrant your response, and that goes for most of you.

[Anonymous]

I remember there was a similar technique used in High Impact, I was forced to carry a bag of sand in a potato sack on my shoulders... at least 35 lbs .. its almost nice to see WWASP is cleaning up their act even in the slightest... I would have given my left arm to be allowed to carry just a 10 lb box.

You went full retard.

[Anonymous]

But that's not what the post said, now did it?  Even if it did, it's double-heresay and completely inadmissible as evidence (you heard it from a parent who heard it from staff who heard it from etc...).  quote]

Actually, the parent said he  forced the kid to walk around with 10 pound box of books at all times to symbolize the crap he's carrying, something the kid is now doing. Whether that's admissable or not is up to the authoritites. I am quite aware that this is in a greater context of torment, and I object to the psychological damages caused by being treated thusly, more than the potential physical ones

Please, theres no reason to argue against TRYING to do something about this situation.

So, CAFETY, or whomever has the contacts to do something, please do so

[Anonymous]

But that's not what the post said, now did it?  Even if it did, it's double-heresay and completely inadmissible as evidence (you heard it from a parent who heard it from staff who heard it from etc...).  

Actually, the parent said he  forced the kid to walk around with 10 pound box of books at all times to symbolize the crap he's carrying, something the kid is now doing. Whether that's admissable or not is up to the authoritites. I am quite aware that this is in a greater context of torment, and I object to the psychological damages caused by being treated thusly, more than the potential physical ones

Please, theres no reason to argue against TRYING to do something about this situation.

So, CAFETY, or whomever has the contacts to do something, please do so

And you are prevented from contacting them yourself.....HOW? Both Blombrowski and Kat have user names on this forum, whats stopping you from PMing them?

[Anonymous]

But that's not what the post said, now did it?  Even if it did, it's double-heresay and completely inadmissible as evidence (you heard it from a parent who heard it from staff who heard it from etc...).  

Actually, the parent said he  forced the kid to walk around with 10 pound box of books at all times to symbolize the crap he's carrying, something the kid is now doing. Whether that's admissable or not is up to the authoritites. I am quite aware that this is in a greater context of torment, and I object to the psychological damages caused by being treated thusly, more than the potential physical ones

Please, theres no reason to argue against TRYING to do something about this situation.

So, CAFETY, or whomever has the contacts to do something, please do so

And you are prevented from contacting them yourself.....HOW? Both Blombrowski and Kat have user names on this forum, whats stopping you from PMing them?

I have an idea: let's be antagonistic, sanctimonious and disrespectful to each other for no reason. The beauty of the internet. Weeee!

[FemanonFatal2.0]

I remember there was a similar technique used in High Impact, I was forced to carry a bag of sand in a potato sack on my shoulders... at least 35 lbs .. its almost nice to see WWASP is cleaning up their act even in the slightest... I would have given my left arm to be allowed to carry just a 10 lb box.

You went full retard.

ya, and uphill. both ways.

and you can kindly fuckoff.

[psy]

Please, theres no reason to argue against TRYING to do something about this situation.

Yes there is.  If you come off as an extremist, you damage the entire cause as it reflects on all of "us".  If and when there is actually something of import to bring to the feds, the'll just ignore it as "another one of those loons".  Either you are incredibly naive, or you're doing this on purpose (troll of type agent provocateur).  Frankly, on matters like this, I trust my instincts  When something seems fishy, it usually is.  If in the rare possibility that I am wrong and you are just naive.  Please, for the sake of us all, don't go encouraging others to call the feds up with things like 10 pound bags.  Get something solid.

So, CAFETY, or whomever has the contacts to do something, please do so

LOL...  You haven't been around long, have you?