Author Topic: Wow, obama is going to win  (Read 25408 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #180 on: January 28, 2009, 01:53:25 AM »
Quote from: "KathyS"
Quote
As long as it doesn't conflict with a school you refer to, right? Think about it.
You are very wrong in accusing me this way and you know it.

Maybe, maybe not.  Which is why I put "think about it".  Maybe a little reflection on what you're doing, placed in context, might make you reconsider what you're doing.

Quote
You want others to be honest but you live by your own rules, think about it.  I am surprised of all people you would acuse others without knowing them.

Well.  I'm not trying to judge and I apologize if I was a bit harsh.  That being said, It seems fairly simple to me.  You claim that you refer parents to both sides of things...  Yet you exclude ISACcorp because they include information on schools you refer to.  Is ISAC not credible?  LOL.  It's hard to make that argument.  In any case the fact of the matter is that which schools you refer to influences the information you share with parents.  As you said, If you referred to ISACcorp you would be fired since they have schools you refer to on their watchlist.  I can't see the motive in that other than to deceive parents by omission.  Do you ever share any negative information about the schools you refer to... such as allegations of abuse by Jon Martin and the GAO, in the case of FFS?  Why such a devotion to those schools.  Is not the welfare of the kids what comes first?  Shouldn't parents be able to decide whether information is credible and be able to make a fully informed decision?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #181 on: January 28, 2009, 09:30:35 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
Well. I'm not trying to judge and I apologize if I was a bit harsh. That being said, It seems fairly simple to me. You claim that you refer parents to both sides of things... Yet you exclude ISACcorp because they include information on schools you refer to. Is ISAC not credible? LOL. It's hard to make that argument. In any case the fact of the matter is that which schools you refer to influences the information you share with parents. As you said, If you referred to ISACcorp you would be fired since they have schools you refer to on their watchlist. I can't see the motive in that other than to deceive parents by omission.

I was curious so I took a look this morning.  We have 78 schools on our DNR list (do not refer), but 3 of the schools on issacorps list use to be on our list but have been removed from our list, so we refer to them (this is why we donot refer parents  to the site at this time).   I don’t have the reason that they have been removed but I would guess it is because they have resolved specific issues.  To give issacorp the benefit of the doubt it may be that they have not updated their web site in awhile and are not as current as we are.  Our list is updated as soon as information is received.  Since we flag 78 schools as DNR and isaccorp only flags 63 shows we must have a more stringent set of guidelines than they do.

I would be willing to guess that as soon as Isac updates their list we would refer parents to them.  But is it fair to the schools to penalize them because Isac hasnt gotten around to updating their site?

 
Quote
Do you ever share any negative information about the schools you refer to... such as allegations of abuse by Jon Martin and the GAO, in the case of FFS? Why such a devotion to those schools. Is not the welfare of the kids what comes first? Shouldn't parents be able to decide whether information is credible and be able to make a fully informed decision?
We share as much information as we have on each school.  If FFS is a good match for a particular student , we recommend the placement and then we ask the parents if they are aware of the GAO hearings and the problems they have had and we go from there and try to answer all the questions as they are placed to us.  We have full disclosure so that parents can make the best decision possible and there are no problems down the road.
On the other hand when “you” speak to parents you withhold information which could save the life of a child because of your personal bias and unfounded judgements.  Why wouldn’t you recommend that parents visit strugglingteens.com so that they can see both sides of the issue?  You told me that they already have this information, but how do you know?
Doesnt it ever bother you that a parent may come onto fornits and decide not to get help for their child and that child and family would suffer because of it?

Are you aware that FFS is not on isac watch list?  Just something to think about.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 548
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #182 on: January 30, 2009, 11:19:58 PM »
Quote from: "KathyS"
I am all ears.  There is very little that I can do in my current position to make changes.  I am too well known for rocking the boat as it is.

Then Kathy it's high time you start your own business. I'm surprised being required to refer to programs you are aware on abuse watchlists doesn't weigh heavy on your conscious. I understand you are under the impression that you are doing the right thing, and these schools are helpful for teens, but what I believe we have tried to impress upon you is that the information you have based these judgments on are very limited in the scope of the truth. The only way you would be able to know for a fact if a program is truly a good program is if you have used the methods I mentioned before, and NOT ONE referral service does these things.

Consider this... If I ran a referral service for say, home remodeling sub contractors and I based my recommendations on the marketing materials and client testimonials the company provided for me I might not be getting the whole story. Without inspecting their prior work myself and digging for a wide range of customers satisfied or not, I would really be putting my reputation on the line and be the asshole who referred a client to get screwed. Well, in the case of the Troubled Teen Industry your not only putting your reputation and moral conscious on the line here but you are also putting this teens life and those of their family in jeopardy. Why is it that the policy for referring kitchen cabinets is more lax then referring programs? Do you see our issues here? Do you see why we feel that Ed-Cons are primarily part of the problem?

My problem is not with you personally, (despite possibly your judgments on grammar vs significance) but with this Ed-Con industry. You guys have got it dead wrong, and with just a few policy changes (which would require you to stop discrediting survivors) this "referral" industry could completely change the Troubled Teen Industry and set a standard for the future of higher education in America. What I don't understand is why this hasn't happened yet, and why people would rather create layers of lies to dismiss and cover things up than to truly help these teens.

Maybe this is just an important topic for me, please understand I have had insomnia for many years now and the things I think about are how to actually implement the fundamental changes to make a difference. I also have a strategic mind and this problem has been given many hours of thought toward a solution. I honestly wish I had the money, power and time to hire a team and put these plans into motion, maybe even start my own school. But for now I guess my only option is to ask why those who do have the money and the power are cutting so many corners and destroying peoples lives.

I know this thread has been long lost by now, but I guess I wanted to just top off our conversation with the conclusion that if you are willing to stand for what is moral and good and right, you wont be the one out of a job. Change is on its way, and I must warn you that what you see on Fornits is like the front bakery for the underground tunnel that is this movement. It wont be long till we reach the camp on the other side and take out our enemy and that is going to be the time where you realized what side of the fence you were really on.

However I do thank you for how willing you have been to talk to us, listen to us and do your best to relate to us. and I do think you are a genuinely good person with good intentions, and that's why I hope that someday you will see things just a little bit differently and choose to act differently.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]




[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline Froderik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7547
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
O' BAMA
« Reply #183 on: January 31, 2009, 10:09:40 AM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #184 on: January 31, 2009, 11:58:51 AM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Then Kathy it's high time you start your own business. I'm surprised being required to refer to programs you are aware on abuse watchlists doesn't weigh heavy on your conscious. I understand you are under the impression that you are doing the right thing, and these schools are helpful for teens, but what I believe we have tried to impress upon you is that the information you have based these judgments on are very limited in the scope of the truth. The only way you would be able to know for a fact if a program is truly a good program is if you have used the methods I mentioned before, and NOT ONE referral service does these things.
There are many methods that I can use to determine if a program is good or not.  We have field reports, speaking to graduates, we look at isaccorp, strugglingteens, parents who have had kids placed.  If I felt even for a moment that a child was in danger I would never place that child.

Quote
Consider this... If I ran a referral service for say, home remodeling sub contractors and I based my recommendations on the marketing materials and client testimonials the company provided for me I might not be getting the whole story. Without inspecting their prior work myself and digging for a wide range of customers satisfied or not, I would really be putting my reputation on the line and be the asshole who referred a client to get screwed. Well, in the case of the Troubled Teen Industry your not only putting your reputation and moral conscious on the line here but you are also putting this teens life and those of their family in jeopardy. Why is it that the policy for referring kitchen cabinets is more lax then referring programs? Do you see our issues here? Do you see why we feel that Ed-Cons are primarily part of the problem?
I see what you are saying, but I do as much research as I can prior to placement.  I  don’t just rely on what the schools tells us.  A person who recommends sub contractors would rely heavily on feed back from customers and certificates/experience that the contractors earned.  There was another thread which was discussing Education consultants earning a certificate (CEP).  When an Ed-con earns certificates or gets training this it shows they are dedicated and want to get better and learn more about their business.  These are the types of people you want to hire.  If I were selling sub contractors to install kitchen cabinets I would have to do the same.  I wouldn’t think it reasonable to visit every site and inspect the work.  I would need to rely on certifications and experienced people in the field.  I think we are part of the problem if we do not do the necessary work to insure a child is placed properly.  So if I understand you I think what you are saying is if all Ed-cons were required to be certified to a certain level then you would feel a little more comfortable?  Because we are also an important part of the solution too.  Maybe I missed your point.

Quote
My problem is not with you personally, (despite possibly your judgments on grammar vs significance) but with this Ed-Con industry. You guys have got it dead wrong, and with just a few policy changes (which would require you to stop discrediting survivors) this "referral" industry could completely change the Troubled Teen Industry and set a standard for the future of higher education in America. What I don't understand is why this hasn't happened yet, and why people would rather create layers of lies to dismiss and cover things up than to truly help these teens.
You are hung up on the language thing and I think you misunderstand my meaning.  I don’t discredit survivors stories, as you put it.  I am use to the language now.  On your kitchen cabinet idea, suppose I called a customer to ask how their kitchen cabinet installation went and I heard:  “Well the guy showed up to install our "plate prisons" and immediately suggested we place our dog in isolation and even gave us names of people who could kidnap little rover while he was sleeping.  He abused and brutalized our entire kitchen and one of the plate prison installers denied us access to food and water for a period of time.  One guy was nice enough to install a “corner rotation Gulag” so that we could place all our canned goods in isolation for their entire shelf life.”
If there were a group of people who spoke like this I would still refer business to them but I wouldn’t use them as a reference to speak with prospective customers.  Not because they were not being honest, but because they use uncommon terms and would be confusing to new customers.  I am not criticizing your language or discrediting you.  It just doesn’t work well outside your group.
To answer you last question I believe we are changing the industry.  Our company has many schools and programs which we do not refer to and have sent notice to them letting them know our concerns.  As the schools/programs become more specialized the role for ed-cons will become more important in determining which school is the better fit.  Parents will rely on us more and more to help them thru the maze of programs which are becoming available.  It use to be a one size fits all, and placement was determine by affordability and closest location.  Not anymore.  I feel we have gained a tremendous amount of power in this industry and will make a great effect on it.
Quote
Maybe this is just an important topic for me, please understand I have had insomnia for many years now and the things I think about are how to actually implement the fundamental changes to make a difference. I also have a strategic mind and this problem has been given many hours of thought toward a solution. I honestly wish I had the money, power and time to hire a team and put these plans into motion, maybe even start my own school. But for now I guess my only option is to ask why those who do have the money and the power are cutting so many corners and destroying peoples lives.
You understand the needs of the industry pretty good I would say.  The difficult part is that there is only so much you can do and still remain in business.  So you need to balance things.  If you hire too many people on your team you will go broke, too little and you may not get enough done which would not be good for the child you are trying to place.

Quote
I know this thread has been long lost by now,
No, I am still here.  I read almost every day now or atleast check in quickly.    I fear I pushed back at Michael a little too hard so he has moved on.

Quote
but I guess I wanted to just top off our conversation with the conclusion that if you are willing to stand for what is moral and good and right, you wont be the one out of a job. Change is on its way, and I must warn you that what you see on Fornits is like the front bakery for the underground tunnel that is this movement. It wont be long till we reach the camp on the other side and take out our enemy and that is going to be the time where you realized what side of the fence you were really on.

However I do thank you for how willing you have been to talk to us, listen to us and do your best to relate to us. and I do think you are a genuinely good person with good intentions, and that's why I hope that someday you will see things just a little bit differently and choose to act differently.
I think that my time as an ed-con is short, maybe another year.  I am planning on moving on to another job which requires me to relocate.  But part of me will always be rooting for kids to find themselves and find a happy path in life.  I hope you get the opportunity to work closely with an education consultant someday so that you can see what they do and how challenging their job is.  Many perceive it  as just placing a child collecting a fee and moving on and it is not.  I think as a whole we get a bad rap here on fornits.  Either way I hope you can find your place in all of this, you seems to be dedicated to helping kids out and your heart is in the right place.  Thanks for being kind, femanon.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #185 on: January 31, 2009, 06:31:46 PM »
Quote from: "kathyS"
You are hung up on the language thing and I think you misunderstand my meaning. I don’t discredit survivors stories, as you put it. I am use to the language now. On your kitchen cabinet idea, suppose I called a customer to ask how their kitchen cabinet installation went and I heard: “Well the guy showed up to install our "plate prisons" and immediately suggested we place our dog in isolation and even gave us names of people who could kidnap little rover while he was sleeping. He abused and brutalized our entire kitchen and one of the plate prison installers denied us access to food and water for a period of time. One guy was nice enough to install a “corner rotation Gulag” so that we could place all our canned goods in isolation for their entire shelf life.”

"Gulag," "cult" and "torture" are terms understandable to everyone but the people who want to discredit accounts of "torture" and "brainwashing" which go on in the "gulags" they earn their living from.

Your continued claim these terms are applied inappropriately is outrageous.

Here’s the definition of torture :
Torture, according to the United Nations Convention Against Torture, is:

“   Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.


Gulag—a prison where detainees are held without trial or access to the courts, habeas corpus, or due process.

 “Cultic abuse” “gulag” and “torture” have been defined for you 8 times.  I do not apply these terms haphazardly or nonsensically like you do in your example above. But you continue to state we apply these words inappropriately, thereby discrediting our accounts of torture in cultic-gulags. In so many words, you say that survivors who say they were tortured, brutalized and held prisoner in gulags are lying.

http://www.amazon.com/American-GULAG-Se ... 1930418019
"An American Gulag: Secert POW Camps for teens" is a successful book written by author Alexia Park
http://consciouswoman.org/2008/01/04/co ... uary-2008/

She, like anyone not personally profiting from what amounts to the murder of children, understands the English language.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Froderik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7547
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
Wow, I don't give a fuck.
« Reply #186 on: January 31, 2009, 07:55:09 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
"Gulag," "cult" and "torture" are terms understandable to everyone but the people who want to discredit accounts of "torture" and "brainwashing" which go on in the "gulags" they earn their living from.
Indeed!! Besides, I daresay it's time people here shut the fuck up about terms used, isn't it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #187 on: January 31, 2009, 08:46:42 PM »
Quote
"Gulag," "cult" and "torture" are terms understandable to everyone but the people who want to discredit accounts of "torture" and "brainwashing" which go on in the "gulags" they earn their living from.
Not true this is a total misconception on your part.  I don’t usually strongly disagree here but you are way off.   I talk to parents all the time and they have no reason to discredit accounts of torture and brainwashing nor do they earn their living from any of this and they would not associate these terms with boarding schools or programs I can assure you.
Gulag is a Russian forced labor camp.  The word prison doesn’t apply either because Kids don’t have access to the court systems except thru their parents until they come of age and then they can sign themselves out anyway, so there is no law broken or denial of due process.
Torture involves “severe” pain which is the highest level of pain, for the purpose of extracting a confession , bamboo sticks under the finger nails, chopping of  a finger, Chinese water torture etc..  I am sure there could be some examples of a child being in severe pain, but it is not something that is representative of this industry.
I understand that you use these terms as a shock value or to pump up some hype between yourselfs.  I am not being critical of that.  It is the way you feel and a good way for you to communicate between yourselves to release anger and frustration.  I have been reading here enough to understand that
Quote
In so many words, you say that survivors who say they were tortured, brutalized and held prisoner in gulags are lying.
I am so surprised that you said this, everyone I have ever talked to would know that kids are not “literally” held prisoners in gulags in this country, because we don’t have labor camps for kids here.  Show me one nationally recognized Gulag in the united states, they don’t exist.  When people say they have been held in a Gulag and tortured they lose credibility for what comes after and the rest of what they have to say is not as believable.  I never use to believe anything I read here but after awhile and after speaking with some of you it became clear that this was a choosen speech between survivors and I need to read between the lines and interpret to understand what is being said.  So I do understand that problems occurred but someone new to this would not.
Quote
She, like anyone not personally profiting from what amounts to the murder of children, understands the English language.
They are trying to earn money from the books they sell.  An eye catching title is sometimes key.  I wouldnt use a book title to interpret this.

I am sorry that I disagree with you so strongly, guest, but if you spoke to people who are educated or not and that are not associated with the industry they would not associate the language and definitions (you describe) with the teen help industry.  Guantanamo bay, that prison in Iraq or old Russia maybe, but nothing in the US.  Does everyone on fornits really believe the rest of the world speaks like this?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #188 on: January 31, 2009, 11:29:55 PM »
Here's a personal request going out to Psy and Femanon: Please stop brownosing the child murderer or poseur child murderer. "I think you're a good person"? "I think you have good intentions?" Uh...Read its most current contribution.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #189 on: February 01, 2009, 12:18:39 AM »
Quote from: "I Sell Kids to torture camps, but you can call me KathyS"
A Gulag is a Russian forced labor camp.

1.   A network of forced labor camps in the former Soviet Union.
2.   A forced labor camp or prison, especially for political dissidents.
3.   A place or situation of great suffering and hardship, likened to the atmosphere in a prison system or a forced labor camp.
Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time..."


Hey, look, moron.That's from dictionary dot com. Gulag applies to any detention center which hold captives extrajudicially. According to Amnesty International the term applies to Guantanamo Bay PARTICUALARLY regarding the minors detained.

Anyhoo, now we are clear on what “gulag” means and understand you choose to go with a personal definition in this matter. I understand you make money from buying and selling kid bodies, so it makes sense that "you and your group" choose euphemisms over representational English.

It’s interesting you mention that Gulag means “forces Labor Camp”
Here’s testimony from a Family Foundation School (cultic-gulag) survivors:
Amy Johnson
My name is Amy Johnson and I attended The Family Foundation School in Hancock, NY from August 2000 through June 2002. Over my 22 months at FFS I witnessed, partook in and was encouraged to emotionally, verbally, mentally and in some cases physically abuse my peers. While a new chapel was being built our dorms were a filthy, disgusting, bug infested, rotting, molding mess that parents were prohibited from seeing. At the school the students do all the manual labor such as cutting the acres of grass, shoveling upstate NY snow each fall and winter, preparing and serving the meals, cleaning the school and house.

Leah Bonner
I wasn't aloud to eat normal food, and I had to work without school. I was feed flavorless Cream of Wheat, english muffins with dry canned tuna, and a small cup of water. I was starving, and then I was accused of being bulemic, even though I was never alone, not even for a second to go to the bathroom. I was repeatedly told I was going to end up "dead, institutionalized, or in jail" if I left the school. I took care of a pig that I watched get shipped off to slaughter. I washed it, feed it, and gave it clean hay and water three times a day. I was forced to trot, I couldn't walk. No shoes. I was made to wear the most humiliating outfit they could find, and working included shoveling and carrying rocks in the middle of July and was told that it was God's work... as my belly grumbled I had to prepare other people's food.

http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... eah_Bonner
http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... my_Johnson

.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #190 on: February 01, 2009, 12:22:59 AM »
Within two weeks of being at the school I was not allowed to talk to boys, my parents, or any other new comer to the school. I was confused about they're policies about "negative" behavior, music I had grown up listening to, stories of the people I had grown to love back home, including some of my own family memebers, and any mention of drugs or partying in any kind of positive way. They preached to me AA and absolute love, but continued to keep me from speaking to my parents.

When I had the chance to have a brief conversation with them I was always punished after for something I had said, whether it was telling them about something that had happened to me, another student, or an employee. Any mention of the school was considered manipulation and any mention of any success or progress I had achieved was considered prideful. I painfully got up day after day in front of my makeshift "family" where I was baraded with forced and influenced hate from my peers and they're insults and harsh words were not even comparable to what I endured from the staff. I was called a slut, a whore, an ungrateful human being; i was told by my family "mother" repeatedly that she hated me, and she clearly favored the other children, letting them get away with more than me.

I struggled to be as honest as possible, but I was accused of lying on a daily basis. I was forced to say extremely embarassing things infront of 30-40 of my peers. If I developed a close friendship with one of the other female students I was accused of being a lesbian and was not aloud to talk to or look at her. I saw my parents rarely and always got in trouble after. My Aunt drove 5 hours to come see me and the turned her down and sent her home. I was not aloud any comfort, they focused on humiliation.


After I decided I was going to leave in three months on my eighteenth birthday (after a long year of being at the school) I was forced to stand outside in the hall, I wasn't aloud to eat normal food, and I had to work without school. I was feed flavorless Cream of Wheat, english muffins with dry canned tuna, and a small cup of water. I was starving, and then I was accused of being bulemic, even though I was never alone, not even for a second to go to the bathroom. I was repeatedly told I was going to end up "dead, institutionalized, or in jail" if I left the school. I took care of a pig that I watched get shipped off to slaughter. I washed it, feed it, and gave it clean hay and water three times a day. I was forced to trot, I couldn't walk. No shoes. I was made to wear the most humiliating outfit they could find, and working included shoveling and carrying rocks in the middle of July and was told that it was God's work. I was forced to watch or listen to the other students having fun, and as my belly grumbled I had to prepare other people's food.

I was one of the many children there who were singled out as being unbreakable, that I was still too prideful and they had to do everything they could to humiliate me and they did. Turns out I'm not a drug addict, sex addict, or a harm to myself or others. I am a successful adult who deals everyday with what I've been through. Within 3 years of leaving the nightmares slowly faded to a dull roar - I felt less fear in my dreams. However, large parts of my memory are missing, my brain is permanently damaged from the 15 and a half months I was there and will do anything to educate parents, to help them find a better way then incarcerating their children in an abusive program. I am strong, but a part of me will always be with those horrible memories of no love, no hope, and a attempted destruction of the person that I am. Only now, seven years later, do I feel safe talking about this. I hope it helps other people.


http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... eah_Bonner
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #191 on: February 01, 2009, 12:24:09 AM »
My name is Chris Lont, and I would like to fully back your cause here. I got an email forwarded to me from Grace Cole. I was a student at the FFS from August 1997 to June 1999. If it makes any difference or holds any extra weight in your case, I am currently a Lieutenant in the US Navy. I am very busy, so I don't think I'll have the time to write a verbose report of my experience, but I'll list what I saw, and what happened to me while I was there:

- Wrapped up in a blanket and duct taped for mouthing off to a fellow student in August 1997. At the time, The main building was a 3 story farmhouse, and I was thrown into a small room on the first floor where the library was. I was unsupervised for 3 hours, and then was checked on. After asking if I was ready to calm down, I refused to comply, and was left for a full 24 hours in the blanket. Obviously, without the proper facilities available to me, I was forced to twice urinate.

- I was not allowed to talk to my family for the first 56 days there, even though the norm at the time was a 30 day wait.

- A fellow student in 1998 was sent to the school because he was an extreme vegan, and partook in various protests. Obviously, he did not eat meat. And, instead of allowing him to eat a vegetarian meal, he was told to eat his meat food anyway. He refused, and, as was custom, was told to sit in the corner until he was ready to comply. The rules were that you MUST eat all of the missed meals. So, he went without a meal for 5 days, a total of 14 meals missed. The school never offered any other type of sustenance.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #192 on: February 01, 2009, 12:28:18 AM »
During my stay at the FFS, I experienced and witnessed many horrors that should never be experienced by any child. First, I had an attorney who had fought on my behalf to keep me out of the school and lost prior to my arrival. I asked to call her several times during my stay there and was refused the right. We were told we didn’t have rights until we were 18 by the staff and senior members. I believed them. I was told I did not have a mental illness, which I in fact did and do and is documented to this day. I was told I was just a “brat”. I was shortly taken off all my psychiatric medication which included an antidepressant and antipsychotic to clear my thinking. They didn’t believe in mental illness there and there was no substantial treatment for mental illness unless you consider being verbally abused “therapy”. There was no positive criticism. Girls were called whores. I myself was not called one because I wasn’t considered pretty. Instead I was told I looked like a slob and criticized for bad outfit choices I made in front of the whole table. At the same time, I was denied new clothes. Most of my clothes had been taken from me when I arrived so I had little wardrobe choices. Character attacks and degradation at the table were common. We were told we “needed humility because we were arrogant” when in fact most of the students there suffered from low self esteem. One boy in family 2, who wasn’t there long, was videotaped by staff while he was restrained and had dog biscuits shoved in his mouth. I didn’t witness it but it was brought up at the table and the staff admitted doing it. I unfortunately don’t remember the staff’s name. I know they worked in family 2 and it wasn’t Bob and Susan. They also tried to impose the first step on us, which is to admit we’re powerless over our addictions, by placing us on work sanctions and giving us dry tuna to eat and other harsh punishments. Oh we realized how powerless we were but not over our “addictions”(some addictions were real, some were imagined by the staff). We realized we were completely powerless as far as rights.

The whole time I was there, I was shunned and treated like a leper. I was placed on house blackout as a punishment because they felt I didn’t really want the program and remained on it most of my stay. I couldn’t even talk to staff during part of my blackout. Being simply compliant wasn’t enough. Then you were “just skating by” or “biding your time”. I was resistant at first and negative but then when I realized that the school had complete control over me, I began to comply but that wasn’t good enough.

I enjoyed and excelled at school but for not “really working my program” I was taken out of school and placed on work sanctions frequently. During some of these sanctions, I endured harsh elements like the cold winter weather for most of my day as did the people who were in charge of watching me. I was always placed in the corner or isolation for long periods of time. Given that and the fact I was on house blackout and off my antidepressant, I was depressed and felt isolated most of my stay there. I will never forget the holidays, which is supposed to be a joyful time of year. I was compliant and trying to “work the program” but still on house blackout. Most of the staff took blackouts off for the holidays but Paul Geer, our family “father”, was particularly cruel and refused to let me and another girl speak to anyone on Christmas Day while everyone else had a good time. This girl and I were also forced to sit in the corner at a dance and not socialize with anyone. Like I said, we were doing what we were supposed to be doing.

I was also isolated from my family. I was placed on family blackout for refusing to do my work sanctions at times and refusing to eat dry tuna. I was taken off shortly when Paul thought I didn’t want to talk to my parents when the truth was I was just majorly depressed and my spirit was broken so I didn’t care anymore. Prior to the holidays, my mom and Grandpa drove several hours to see me in a play and visit me. I was told I could see them when I got done with the play and my mom was told the same. After the play, they were gone. My sponsor and family “mom”, Christine Spicer told me that my Grandpa was tired so my mom had to leave. Soon after that I was placed on family blackout. I later found out after leaving that my mom was told I had misbehaved when that was far from the truth. I remained on family blackout about 6 months.

As for nutritional deprivation, I would definitely say I was at times deprived nutrition. Dry tuna straight out of the can on an English muffin for lunch and dinner and a small bowl of maypo for breakfast hardly meet the daily nutritional requirements for a teen. This was the menu of choice for those who were deemed “defiant” or “not working their program”. I had to endure eating it sometimes. I got out of it sometimes though by refusing to do my work sanction unless I was given regular food and it worked a few times. I also at one time threatened Paul I would tell my lawyer who was due to visit me, that I was being malnourished. He then started adding mayonnaise and celery to my tuna. That wouldn’t last though. I saw one girl get served dry tuna for at least two months and started having problems with her bowels and was still given tuna and milk of magnesia. This same girl was also made to stand all day long in the corner and given only one pair of clothes to wear for months.

Whenever I was sick there, which was about 3 times during my stay there, I was accused of lying. I recall within my first few months there, I was in the dorm in Family 2, dusting(my chore). I started feeling extremely dizzy. I asked to lie down for a minute because I felt dizzy. The girls insisted I continue on with my chore so I did. I then knew I was going to faint so I kind of threw myself on the floor to avoid falling into something and hurting myself further. I blacked out for a minute and then came to. I awoke to being screamed at by my junior sponsor and told I was making the whole thing up. I was allowed to go to the nurse and my temperature was taken and it was high. Even though I was proven to be sick, I was told I had exaggerated the whole thing and after that is when the punishments started getting severe. Shortly after that, I was brought up for not doing a good enough job on dish crew. I was punished on Easter Day by being expected to clean up after my whole family of 30 people and do the dish crew of the whole school’s dishes by myself. While I did these chores, I was also required to trot. In the same family( family 2, which at the time was run by Bob and Susan Runge), I also remember a boy on crutches being forced to carry heavy tubs of dishes up the stairs without help. The last time I was sick there, I was put in the corner for claiming to be sick and when I asked to have my temperature taken, I was refused. Finally I begged to have it taken all day and the school nurse reluctantly took it and it was high. I was still punished in the corner.

Scare tactics were commonly used to make us stay there and/or comply. We were all told we would end up dead or in jail if we left. One girl was brought up at the table and taunted about a previous molestation that had occurred to her by Paul Geer. He made it feel like her fault she was molested and then told her if she dared try to run away or leave the school it would happen again. Kids were scared into eating foods they couldn’t tolerate by being threatened with food tubes. I myself had scare tactics used on me by my peers at the direction of Robin Ducey and Audra Runge. I was court ordered there. I was threatened if I didn’t comply by eating dry tuna and doing a work sanction, I would be sent to a juvenile detention facility. I started to think I would be happier there although I had never been to one. Girls were instructed to tell me horror stories of their times in juvenile facilities to scare me. Robin then threatened to have me shipped out in 24 hours and told me my parents were in full support of me going to a juvenile detention facility. I later found out this was not true at all.

I experienced minor physical abuse at the school. During my last month there, I was on yet another work sanction and I was to do dish crew. I refused to do it and was physically dragged up the stairs by staff and students by my arms. I had bruises all over my upper arms when I left the school.

All phone calls and letters to parents were monitored and read. We weren’t allowed to tell our parents what went in the school because it would be considered a manipulation and we would be heavily punished. My parents were in the dark most of the time about what happened to me at the school. I was on family blackout most of my stay and when I DID talk to my parents, I was only allowed to say positive things about the school.

I finally got out of the school by giving up on everything and being noncompliant. I then begged to call my mom and they finally let me. I begged her to take me out and told her that they were threatening me with juvenile hall. My mom came that day and got me. Other students weren’t so lucky though. I don’t care if the staff there or previous students think I was a “brat” who “didn’t work her program”. I did what I had to do to get out of an abusive situation. I tried to comply several times and that wasn’t enough so I gave up on everything and worked on fighting to get out. I suffered from a broken heart, a broken spirit and a low self esteem which was supported by staff mainly. I felt hopeless and suicidal at times. The only little gleam of hope I held on to was my 18th birthday. I haven’t led the most successful life since leaving the school and my mental condition has worsened. I won’t blame all my problems on the school but I will say they did absolutely nothing to help me. I experienced the same nightmares others have of being forced to go back there and trying to tell people that I’m over 18 and they can’t make me but somehow they can. The nightmares have only recently ended. This is my first time speaking out about the abuses that occurred because I didn’t realize it was actual abuse until hearing John Martin Crawford’s testimony and reading testimonies of my fellow classmates. Now I won’t shut up about it. Something must be done about the FFS and other institutions like it. I have now realized that I didn’t fail at the FFS. The FFS failed me and my parents. The school preys on desperate parents. Anyways this is my testimony. If I remember more details, I will edit it.

Retrieved from "http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sarah_Forman"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #193 on: February 01, 2009, 12:33:38 AM »
http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_ ... iew&id=627

 
Additional Written Testimony from Family Foundation School Survivors

Testimony collected 2008:




Chavaya Beebee Galvao
Leah Bonner

Fay Leff

Jennifer Jacobs

Brendon McMahon

Leah Pallor

Amy Johnson

Christopher Noroski

Emil Fischer

Daniel Merrill

Melanie Bilcik

Matthew Tierney

Andrea DiGenno

Grace Cole


Katelyn Norris

Sgt. Chris Lont
  Darrilyn Boyce

Tom Malkowski


Sarah Forman
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #194 on: February 01, 2009, 12:46:01 AM »
My name is Chris Noroski and I attended The Family Foundation School from 2001 to 2004.I was woken up in the middle of the night by two men, who proceeded to handcuff me, shackle me, and put me in the back of a Lincoln town car. I had no idea who they were, where I was going, or why. Honestly, I thought I had been kidnapped at first. I was a scared, scrawny, 15 year old kid.

During my time at The Family School, I witnessed many things that I would consider to be child abuse. About two weeks after I arrived there, I refused to go to school until I was able to talk to my mom. They told me that wasn’t going to happen and made me stand in a corner of a room all day and did not feed me anything until I complied. When I still refused, two staff members then picked me up by neck and held me against the wall in the corner of the room while yelling obscenities at me. I was slammed over a table, which proceeded to fall on top of me and I received a blackeye. It should be important to note that I made no physical advances or threats on either staff member; I just nonviolently stated that I was not going to comply with their demands.

I attempted to behave myself for the next two weeks or so until they would allow me to speak with my mother. I promised I would not say anything bad to my mom on the phone, but as soon as I got on the phone I told my mom what had happened to me. A staff member took away the phone and reassured my mom that I was lying, while looking at me and my black eye just a foot away. I was then put on “family” blackout, on which I was not allowed to talk to my mom for months.

Being stubborn, I refused to admit that I needed to work their program. During my first few months there, several staff members tried to get me to admit to problems that I did not have, such as drug and alcohol abuse, two things that I had not tried at all.

Also, the school has a very strict anti-masturbation policy. On several occasions, I was forced to get up in front of “the family” (a group “therapy” session where a student stands up in front of 30 peers and about 5-10 staff members and people take turns telling you what is wrong with you). Students were encouraged to call me a pervert, and girls told me that I was a disgusting person because I masturbated. All of this was discussed over meals. That is an embarrassment and public humiliation that no student deserves.


A lot of the policies at FFS exist to publicly demean the student. They seek to destroy a student’s will to fight by making you feel worthless. It is no surprise that one student while I was at FFS committed suicide. While I did not know the student (Tom M), he committed suicide after a short time at the school. I can not say that I blame FFS for that because I did not know Tom well, but I do remember that the first month was the hardest time at the school, and that I also entertained suicidal thoughts when I was first there.

During my final year at The Family School, I was a member of the school Basketball Team, and we all got in trouble for making inappropriate comments about girls on the cheerleading team. The comments were honestly not that out of the ordinary for high school adolescent guys (still perhaps not the most wholesome comments). We were forced to stand up in front of the house (the entire student body and 30-40 or more staff members who each yelled at us for at least 2 hours). Students, particularly the girls were encouraged to mock us. One girl was even applauded for saying that “If we talked about her like that, she would cut our dicks off.” This type of derisive behavior was encouraged.

Male students were discouraged from talking to the female students. Some boys got in trouble for as much as “making eye contact” with female students. Smiling towards the opposite sex was strictly forbidden, and I did not have any female friends while at this school. Granted, some boarding schools are all-male or all-female, but here it was co-ed yet natural hormones and feelings were meant to feel unnatural by the FFS staff. I would say that this was probably the most lasting negative effect of my stay at FFS. Prior to my arrival at FFS, I had had only one girlfriend in my life. Since leaving the school, 4 years ago, I would say that it has just been in the last year that I have been able to reopen up around the opposite sex, and realizing that being attracted to girls is not “a bad thing”. I don’t have to fear standing in a corner if I smile at a cute girl anymore, but that has taken time. Three years of my formative teenage life in terms of dating and maturing as a person were taken away from me by FFS.

Some of my peers at FFS certainly were very dangerously “at-risk” teens. There were students who were facing 20 years or more in prison if they did not complete The Family School program, others were sex addicts who had abused siblings, others were suicidal/extremely depressed. The main issue that I have with programs, The Family School in particular is their false marketing strategies. They claim to be a “college-preparatory boarding school.” I don’t think that I could have been worse prepared for college than I was by FFS. I was confused and by the time I graduated I halfway thought I was a drug addict/alcoholic even though I had never done either in my life.

The lies that I told to get by and finally escape that place still haunt me today. Students were encouraged to tell other students their faults down to the nitpickiest things.

I fought the FFS system for 2 years. The result was I placed on work sanctions on 10 different occasions. These sanctions lasted between a week and 2 months in my case and consisted of menial labor all day, with no formal education. I was taken out of school to do tasks such as carrying buckets of rocks from point A to point B all day and then the next day carry the same rocks from point B to point A. I also built drainage ditches, resodded parts of the campus, and during the summer was given a manual lawnmower and sent outside into 100 degree heat all day, sometimes without sunscreen or enough proper breaks for water. These “sanctions” were 7 days a week from the moment we woke up 6:15 am (work usually began around 8:30 am) and lasted until 7:30 pm. I would approximate that I missed 6-9 months of formal education doing this type of labor.

After two years, of refusing to comply with The Family School way of life, I finally assuaged my behavior to their policies so that they would let me graduate. I told on my fellow students, and was a nitpicking, pain in the ass hypocrite. Staff praised me for “holding my peers accountable” If we didn’t tell other students their faults, it was assumed that we were “being dishonest, not working our programs, wanting to relapse, etc.”

In many ways, FFS operates like a cult. They try to get you to believe that if you do not do what they say you will die. You become dependent on what they say, because they tell you that you will never leave the school if you don’t do what they say.

FFS boasts a 100% college placement rating. I can not count the number of times where students were told “if you do not go to college, you will relapse and die.” They portray an image that is plainly not true.

I saw that FFS responded to Jon Martin’s testimony at the recent Congressional hearing in April 2008 and it seemed to me that they were taking credit for his success as a person.

I remember two weeks after I graduated they put a picture of me up on their website with quotes from my graduation speech, which was heavily edited by the administration. They told me what to say and how to say it so that the visiting parents could see the joys and successes of their program. I remember crying during my graduation speech, not because I believed a word of the “touching” speech I was giving, but rather because this horrendous experience was finally over. I was finally free.

Of my five peers who graduated the program when I did, not a single one remained “sober” after leaving there. The truth is that most former Family School students succeed in spite of FFS rather than because of it.

Once I left The Family School, I tried to tell my mom what happened at FFS.

She would not believe me.

 She would call me a liar and say that I was just bitter at her for sending me there. I had realized that my mom had been tricked by FFS into believing that they were trying to help me. I no longer blamed her, but just wanted her to believe me when I told her of the abuses that went on there. Only recently, following the latest Congressional hearing has my mom broken down and said that she was sorry that she did not realize what was happening there.

HR 5876 MUST BE PASSED. Every child has the intrinsic right to be able to be protected and not abused. Programs such as The Family School do not ensure these rights. Students must be allowed to talk to Child Services.

There was no access to Child Services while at The Family School.


 I have one year left at The University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, Minnesota where I am pursuing a degree in Science and Mathematics for Elementary Education. I am backing up the words I write here and believe I have found a career and a purpose that I can find meaning and inspiration in. I want to protect our nation’s children and to be an integral part in being a positive influence rather than a demeaning influence even if it is one classroom at a time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »