Wow, obama is going to win

[Froderik]

Here's a personal request going out to Psy and Femanon: Please stop brownosing the child murderer or poseur child murderer. "I think you're a good person"? "I think you have good intentions?"

:tup:

[Miss Antsy Pam]

There are groups for “open discussion” on the industry.

What sites, pray tell, might these "open" places be where discussion of good and bad is permissible?  Perhaps they would allow me to voice my opinions, if it's so open.  As you have seen, I can be quite diplomatic.  Perhaps Pam, Buzzkill, or other parents or ex-staff members could be permitted to speak as well.

Pam the parent here now....

I would love to be a part of any "open discussion" forum!  I was welcomed originally on the WWASP parents' BBS, but soon after, my posts were edited by staff....on more than 15 separate occasions. So sending anyone to a school site is just asking for us to be banned for sure!  If there are, in fact, open discussion forums, please send a link so we can have an open & honest discussion with ANYONE looking for snapshot of both sides of the coin.

Not ALL parents are stupid and we should have the opportunity to see both the bad and the good; only THEN can we be expected to make a decision with informed consent!

[Froderik]

I'm tired of being tormented to hell, that's what I'm tired of.

[Anonymous]

A Gulag is a Russian forced labor camp.

1.   A network of forced labor camps in the former Soviet Union.
2.   A forced labor camp or prison, especially for political dissidents.
3.   A place or situation of great suffering and hardship, likened to the atmosphere in a prison system or a forced labor camp.
Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time..."

Hey, look, moron.That's from dictionary dot com. Gulag applies to any detention center which hold captives extrajudicially. According to Amnesty International the term applies to Guantanamo Bay PARTICUALARLY regarding the minors detained.

Anyhoo, now we are clear on what “gulag” means and understand you choose to go with a personal definition in this matter. I understand you make money from buying and selling kid bodies, so it makes sense that "you and your group" choose euphemisms over representational English.

It’s interesting you mention that Gulag means “forces Labor Camp”
Here’s testimony from a Family Foundation School (cultic-gulag) survivors:
Amy Johnson
My name is Amy Johnson and I attended The Family Foundation School in Hancock, NY from August 2000 through June 2002. Over my 22 months at FFS I witnessed, partook in and was encouraged to emotionally, verbally, mentally and in some cases physically abuse my peers. While a new chapel was being built our dorms were a filthy, disgusting, bug infested, rotting, molding mess that parents were prohibited from seeing. At the school the students do all the manual labor such as cutting the acres of grass, shoveling upstate NY snow each fall and winter, preparing and serving the meals, cleaning the school and house.

Leah Bonner
I wasn't aloud to eat normal food, and I had to work without school. I was feed flavorless Cream of Wheat, english muffins with dry canned tuna, and a small cup of water. I was starving, and then I was accused of being bulemic, even though I was never alone, not even for a second to go to the bathroom. I was repeatedly told I was going to end up "dead, institutionalized, or in jail" if I left the school. I took care of a pig that I watched get shipped off to slaughter. I washed it, feed it, and gave it clean hay and water three times a day. I was forced to trot, I couldn't walk. No shoes. I was made to wear the most humiliating outfit they could find, and working included shoveling and carrying rocks in the middle of July and was told that it was God's work... as my belly grumbled I had to prepare other people's food.
http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... eah_Bonner
http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... my_Johnson

.

Guest, there is no need to be rude to me.  Ask around to people who are not in the industry and non survivors what a Gulag is and they will not tell you about boarding schools.  Preparing meals, mowing the lawn and shovelling snow does not define a gulag, I am sorry to tell you, most American homes including mine require the children to work around the home.  Our farming community would be insulted to hear you describe their kids lives of feeding and tending farm animals as a gulag life.
Someone spoon fed you this, misled you and you blindly bought into the hype so you can feel part of the group here.  Before you jump in and call me wrong again do some reading on Gulags in the Soviet Union and then make the distinction yourself.  Note the walls and barbed wire, continuous forced labor, extremely high death rate.  Then come back and look at the boarding schools here in the US.
If you really still think I am wrong then ask yourself why none of the testimony before congressional committee included the words Gulag, prison camp, kidnapping etc.  You are using a non traditional lingo which is acceptable here on fornits and between survivors.  It is not used in main stream society, I assure you.
Again I am not criticizing you and I am use to the lingo myself.  But people outside your close circle will not understand you or believe you if you use these terms.

[Anonymous]

The thing is, "Kathy", these activities are not universally applied. They are specifically applied to "dissident" kids with differing pov's who they want to BREAK. There are also kids they want to SHUT UP, cause a staff member beat them too hard or abused them sexually and they want the kid to be not believed. So the general mood du jour while this shit is going on is one of group condemnation and shame and guilt and emotional and physical torment to further the program's ends. This is NOT emotional growth.

[Anonymous]

Another way to view this is if you look at the way I have been described here since I started posting.  I have been described as a murderer, child murderer, someone who sells kids etc.  I get the feeling that a few guests and a few with user names don’t like me very well and that is why they are trying to discredit me with harmful names and stories.  So if these same people didn’t like their programs or schools very much I would expect them to retaliate the same way by calling them names and telling stories that are hurtful to the program.
The problem I have is how do we separate out the fact from the fiction out of the survivor stories.  If there is a passion to discredit the schools (like you have with me) what is to stop someone from saying they had to cook for the whole school when they really only had to help out in the kitchen.  Or say they were placed in isolation when in fact they were restricted to their room, or said they were denied food when in fact they were not allowed desert because they broke the rules.
Hatred can tend to make people say things that are not true in an attempt to discredit them, make them look bad or hurt them as we have seen on this thread.
Think about it.

[Anonymous]

I would have a neurophysiologist check the conductivity 'cross those synapses, if I were you, "Kathy". Seems a lot of information is not being processed appropriately, if at all.

I understand it is not currently in your financial or emotional interests to consider the degree of denial you're in, but the truth will out in the end.

[Froderik]

We have allowed human rights to be hijacked by a suspect body of so-called professionals and experts.

[Anonymous]

KathyS is theWHO. To those too stupid to figure it out, well... you deserve to be trolled.

[Anonymous]

KathyS is theWHO. To those too stupid to figure it out, well... you deserve to be trolled.

Oh I agree with you on this one, especially the last post. But I still think he got his sister involved to provide a believable other voice, especially in the beginning. It's not exactly without precedent here on fornits, to have multiple people posting under one "user name".

[Anonymous]

Pam the parent here now....

I would love to be a part of any "open discussion" forum! I was welcomed originally on the WWASP parents' BBS, but soon after, my posts were edited by staff....on more than 15 separate occasions. So sending anyone to a school site is just asking for us to be banned for sure! If there are, in fact, open discussion forums, please send a link so we can have an open & honest discussion with ANYONE looking for snapshot of both sides of the coin.

Not ALL parents are stupid and we should have the opportunity to see both the bad and the good; only THEN can we be expected to make a decision with informed consent!

Hi Pam, It is difficult at best to see all sides of the industry in one place.  Parents are typically in a crisis mode by the time they get to me so I try to keep it simple.  I initially recommend some reading which I send them and a few sites which they can read.  Specific threads on fornits.  A few articles from any programs which may be a good fit.  Articles from “struggling teens” and a forum which is safe for them to air their concerns and talk to others in similar circumstances.   There is a yahoo discussion forum also.  These would not be a good fit for you because they are reserved for parents who are presently having children in programs or boarding schools or are in crisis.
I am sorry to hear you were banned from the WWASP parents group.  I generally do not suggest parents get involved in a group which is tied to the industry that closely.

On another note:  Seems I have been labeled a murderer, accused of being Martha and now have been downgraded to thewho status.  Thank you very much.

[psy]

We share as much information as we have on each school.  If FFS is a good match for a particular student , we recommend the placement and then we ask the parents if they are aware of the GAO hearings and the problems they have had and we go from there and try to answer all the questions as they are placed to us.  We have full disclosure so that parents can make the best decision possible and there are no problems down the road.
On the other hand when “you” speak to parents you withhold information which could save the life of a child because of your personal bias and unfounded judgements.

Save a child's life?  Are you implying such a hypothetical kid was an immediate danger to himself or others.  If that was the case, most schools would exclude enrollment on that basis (most schools generally have sections in their contracts to this effect... if you can find one that that doesn't, i'd be interested in hearing of it).  So this means that most kids in program are, by the program's own standards, not an immediate danger to themselves or others.  In this case, the APA would agree with me that such a placement would be inappropriate.

Furthermore.  I truly believe that none of these places actually help kids.  Even the "good" ones.  There is no evidence to show that residential treatment works, and although we can share anecdotal evidence all day going one way or the other, it's not conclusive at all.  That being said, the fact that there are few, if any, pro-program graduates on this site (which allows all people) says a lot to me...  which is not even to mention the surveys of Allison Pinto.

Why wouldn’t you recommend that parents visit strugglingteens.com so that they can see both sides of the issue?  You told me that they already have this information, but how do you know?

Well.  I've never met a parent whose first stop has been Fornits or any other forum allowing criticism of the industry.  It's a matter of search keywords.  Google "troubled teen" and see how many critical site you find.  A parent doesn't end up on Fornits unless they have already contacted an ed-con, is considering a particular school, and has googled that particular school.  

Doesnt it ever bother you that a parent may come onto fornits and decide not to get help for their child and that child and family would suffer because of it?

That question is leading.  See my point above on the effectiveness of residential treatment.

Are you aware that FFS is not on isac watch list?  Just something to think about.

Yes, i'm aware of that. All that proves shows to me is that parents cant just look at watchlists or one organization to consider a program "safe".  With all the bad programs out there, while there might be a hypothetical "safe" program, it's impossible to tell the difference.  It's like trying to find the one fresh apple in a cartload of rotten ones.  The cultic influence of Synanon, Est, and LifeSpring (among others) is that taint which has rotten the whole bunch.  Sadly it spreads.  Cultic groups are like a cancer for which there is no chemo.  This industry can't be "cured.  It's way past that point.  The way I see it, the only solution is to put the patient down and end the entire industry.  The economy will take care of most of the programs.  Negative PR from this site and other will take care of the rest.

[Anonymous]

Katelyn Norris
1. I was at FFS June 98-Feb 99
2. I experienced interventations only as a witness - I was once responsible for helping wrap another girl in a blanket and taping her wrapped shut. There was slight slapping involved but no brutal beating, although the experience and method is brutal enough.
We were also forced to hold and pin a girl down shoving fish sticks down her throat (which she was allergic too) until she threw up….
3. Nutrition was not ever withheld, however, things forced. Even things you have allergies to, you are required to eat.
4. Was denied sleep several times - staying up through the night scrubbing the gym floor with our own tooth brushes, mandatory to be in charge of suicidal watch for other kids etc….(why were staff members, credentialed, not responsible to watch a suicidal kid?)
5. Proper bedding - sure. You brought your own stuff…..Access to bathroom - only with permission and with complete lack of privacy. There were numerous times we/myslef were denied to go to the bathroom b/c of timing, etc….If you had to go too often, you were denied to continue going.
6. I was never in isolation however, I was one of the kids placed in charge of monitoring the kids who were in isolation. I would sit in a desk outside of isolation and watch someone who was wrapped up in a blanket lying on the cold ground on the other side of the door. Not too mention, I helped wrap her up.

 This particular time, she was wrapped so tight, the blood vessels in her eyeballs popped/ ruptured.
We were required to bring them cold plain tuna.

[Anonymous]

Tom Malkowski http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... _Malkowski
This testimony does not belong to the author, but rather to the individual whos name is on it. I did not personally know Tom Malkowski but he is an example of the Family School's injustice. A student who had only been at the school for two weeks was allowed to commit suicide, there were religious ceremonies and grief counselors brought in and then the whole issue was hushed up. There is no direct tribute to this person to be found online, only a vague web page buried deep in the woodbury reports "troubled teens" site, let this be the ultimate example of the cruelty of the FFS:


"Recent Sad Events at the Family School Press Release
Contact: Sidney Parham 845-887-5213 Hancock, NY
(March 4, 2004) At approximately 8:20 a.m. on March 4, 2004, a male student jumped from a second story balcony at the Family Foundation School outside of Hancock, New York. Within minutes trained school staff began CPR. He was transported by ambulance to Delaware Valley Hospital where he was pronounced dead on arrival.
The 17-year-old from Virginia had been at this emotional growth school for just two weeks. After a difficult first four days, the student seemed to be adjusting to his life at the school. On Wednesday during group counseling, he confessed to having had suicidal thoughts and was subsequently seen by a staff Clinical Social Worker. During this interview, the student indicated he had no plan to commit suicide or harm himself in any way, said he felt better after talking with the social worker. However, senior administration at the school maintained it was standard practice for such situations to continue monitoring the student for any changes that might indicate an imminent crisis. The initial investigation revealed no precipitating incident leading up to this tragedy and no suicide note was found.
New York State Police and the Delaware County Sheriff’s Investigative units were both on the scene, but an official determination has not been made yet.
Religious and spiritual advisors who regularly work with the students and the Delaware County Critical Stress Management Team, are on campus to assist both staff and students in coping with the shock and grief of this death.
At this unfortunate time in the Family Foundation’s 17-year history of guiding at risk teenagers into responsible adulthood, our primary focus is now on helping the family and friends of this child as well as the other students at the school."

[Anonymous]

Darrillyn Boyce
My name is Darrillyn Boyce and I attended the Family Foundation School from March 5th, 2002 until December 11, 2004. I went willingly unlike some of the students because I didn’t want to be taken into custody by police men. As so as I got the there, they stripped me down and made me take a shower and put lice shampoo in my hair. After that they went through all of my stuff threw away personal items such as diaries, CD’s, clothes, etc. Then I got the chance to say good-bye to my family. However I had no idea that I would have no contact with my family for the first thirty days.
After the first thirty days I got a 10 minute phone call with my guardian. After that only on ten minute phone call a week ensued, including if I wanted to talk to my sister, then my phones alternated between my sister and my guardian. However I wasn’t allowed to talk to my sister until about 6 months before I graduated the program.
[…]At FFS[…] Religion was a pressed issue. If everyone else was praying then you should two regardless of your religion. We had chapel everyday, except maybe Saturday. It was unfair to whatever religion people were practicing to (make them) participate in everything.
   We had these events that took place at meal time, called “Table Topics” and I just didn’t understand why someone should have to get up in front of a table full of peers and adults and be bombarded with all these things there doing wrong. Most times I never heard anyone really giving advice, just sanctions. And I wasn’t the friendliest person there but I did what I need to. At one point they had me standing in a corner with no shoes on. I had to get up at the table everyday at every meal and tell one thing about myself, and if it wasn’t satisfactory then I either couldn’t sit or I would get alternative food.
      Alternative food varied at each meal. Breakfast was barely warm cream of wheat, Lunch was a dry untoasted English muffin with tuna straight out the can until they changed it to a lukewarm soy burger, and Dinner was a dry untoasted English muffin again but with creamy peanut butter. Till this day I cant eat, any of those items and seeing them makes me nauseous. Also there was a rule that you had to eat everything on your plate. If you didn’t they would put it in the fridge and you couldn’t eat anything else until you ate that
    At one point they get tired of you being stubborn or unresponsive, and take you out of school and put you on work sanction. Now work sanction, doesn’t that sound like child labor? They would take you out of class until they saw fit to put u back in class. This action set my back 6 months, so I ended up graduation late. And at that same time I was on alternative food while working. We were outside working, digging holes, cutting lawns, cooking, cleaning, and washing dishes, shoveling snow, any labor you can possibly think of. At the same time they put me on alternative food so I was losing weight like crazy. I went from a healthy 170lbs to 137lbs. It was disgusting, you could see the bones in my wrist and my face was all drawn in. Even when my sister can to see me at a family group she said I looked unhealthy because I was skinny.

    `Family groups usually happen about a few months into the program, or whatever they call it. We had to prepare a list of our “dishonesties” and read them off to our parents or guardians. It was so humiliating and uncomfortable.
   But there were so many things that are actually ok and are encouraged by either family or by psychology. Masturbation was a big, and I mean BIG no-no. They told you that it was inappropriate and that it was going to bring you down spiritually. So at one point you begin to believe them and you start feeling like crap, and you look like it too. You couldn’t really talk to the opposite sex let alone look at them. They had this sanction call no eye contact with the opposite sex and blackout. Blackout is when you can’t talk to certain people, such as house, which was anyone outside your unit of 40 people, and there were 8 different units called “families,” six months, which was the amount of time you’ve been there, and the opposite sex

And its so sad, especially if you’re on no eye contact because they would encourage the opposite sex to call you out and embarrass you in front of everyone. At one point I was brought up in front of the house, which is all 8 “families” and then about 200 staff and told that no one should talk to me because I treat everyone like crap and they should ignore me and that I was on this sanction called invisible. This meant that no one could see me and could ignore me if they wanted to. There were times where I would sit in the corner, with no shoes on, in poverty clothes (meaning u weren’t allowed to wear jeans and nice clothes, only nasty sweats, old shirts, ponytails and no name brand soaps and facial cleansers) and wait for almost an hour at times, so some one could acknowledge me. At one point I had to answer a question from the twelve step program that the school was based on, and if it was satisfactory then I didn’t get to eat regular food.
And the basis on the program was based on AA. I wasn’t an alcoholic nor had I drank previous to going to the school. So how was I supposed to relate. At the same time the people there thought I was a liar when it came to certain issues. I understand that’s how we are seen because no body wants to be at this school in the first place. But I was told that I was a whore and I had slept around and there was no way that I was a virgin when I got there, I was appalled at what they said to me.

And to come there and be stripped of what you know and locked up in this bubble until its time for us to graduate, it’s hard. When I left the family school I was absolutely terrified. I was so used to being in this ball and being protected that I was afraid to go outside when I moved to Maryland with my sister. We really didn’t have a initiation into the “real world”. I went out to the mall at one point and a guy hit on me, and I started hyper ventilating and had to go sit and calm down. Till this day I cant take long showers, 4 minutes is what was drilled into my head for almost 3 years. While being there i saw a student commit suicide, because he just couldnt handle it anymore. Can you imagine how he felt before that event took place or how we as a student body felt seeing his body fall to the ground below?