Author Topic: Sumner Hawley  (Read 9012 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Sumner Hawley
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2007, 06:03:24 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
The term sexual predator is used pejoratively to describe a person seen as obtaining or trying to obtain sexual contact with another person in a metaphorically predatory manner. Analogous to how a predator hunts down its prey, so the sexual predator is thought to "hunt" for his or her sex partners. People who commit sex crimes, such as rape or child sexual abuse, are commonly referred to as sexual predators, particularly in tabloid media or as a power phrase by politicians.


If this is a correct definition then this would make Larry Dubinsky a sexual predator. He sought out the prettiest girls each year to "mentor." This mentoring included taking them off for private outings, having them babysit for him while his wife was out of town, and taking advantage of whatever body contact he could get away with when he was alone with these girls. He was not simply an english teacher as another poster mentioned. Hyde helped him with his prey by appointing him to oversee the Deans area where he could question the kids about sex, drugs and anything else he wanted. Rather than taking these duties away from him, Hyde simply made him start keeping the door open when he had female students in his office.  Great way of dealing with this pervert, ha!
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Offline Anonymous

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Sumner Hawley
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2007, 04:30:20 AM »
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I like to slander Sumner Hawley, strangers, and ex-friends who no longer share my opinions.

Quote from: ""Antigen""
Ladies and gentlemen.....[chirp... chirp]  ok, ok, fornicators and fuckwads, this is actually a serious issue. Sue has put us smack dab in the middle of one of the most important first amendment issues of the day. Technically, leagally, you can call her a cunt and a whore and even joke about her religion (hint to those who lack a sense of humour, she's no jewish) but that really just garners her sympathy from people who haven't got the time or interest to study the real issues. These folks make up the vast majority of the public.

It is reprehensible that she would victimize children and families once by refering them to abusive programs, then twice by legal bullying when the victims try to speak out. It's beyond the pale that she would pretend to be an advocate for these same victims and threaten, bully and sue the hell out of anyone who dares to ask questions like "To which programs and schools do you refer?", "Exactly how do you go about ensuring that they're safe and effective?" and "How do you make your money?" It would be laughable that she would send off silly, fallacious letters like the ones to Godaddy and Netfirms, till you consider the state of our tort and business world that made those works of fiction effective. That's worth crying over.

But now it's different. This demand letter comes from an actual law firm. And it doesn't read like Boss Hog like some of the other legal letters I've seen coming from this industry. These guys might be smart. And if they are, they're chortling from here over all the silly shit you guys are posting. If you want to help the Fornits and, while we're at it, help to discourage the sort of things Sue Scheff does, please stick to the real.
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Offline Anonymous

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Back to the thread subject.
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2007, 11:42:01 AM »
Back to the topic.  I am sure some were deeply moved and changed for the better by knowing Mr. Hawley, but I think that boost would have taken a big nose dive if you came back to visit or teach, only for a come-on from him.  Was that the "unique potential" he saw when he stuck up for you?  Was he just out of touch, or maybe were his jollies in question?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Back to the thread subject.
« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2007, 11:50:17 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Back to the topic.  I am sure some were deeply moved and changed for the better by knowing Mr. Hawley, but I think that boost would have taken a big nose dive if you came back to visit or teach, only for a come-on from him.  Was that the "unique potential" he saw when he stuck up for you?  Was he just out of touch, or maybe were his jollies in question?


Far cry from sexual predator, in the Ursine sense.
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Offline Anonymous

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Sumner Hawley
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2007, 12:01:52 PM »
Sounds kind of predatory to me.
You calling me Urses too?  Get real.  Get back to the topic.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Back to the thread subject.
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2007, 12:26:36 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Back to the topic.  I am sure some were deeply moved and changed for the better by knowing Mr. Hawley, but I think that boost would have taken a big nose dive if you came back to visit or teach, only for a come-on from him.  Was that the "unique potential" he saw when he stuck up for you?  Was he just out of touch, or maybe were his jollies in question?


Were you the victim of this come-on from him?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Back to the thread subject.
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2007, 12:49:16 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Back to the topic.  I am sure some were deeply moved and changed for the better by knowing Mr. Hawley, but I think that boost would have taken a big nose dive if you came back to visit or teach, only for a come-on from him.  Was that the "unique potential" he saw when he stuck up for you?  Was he just out of touch, or maybe were his jollies in question?


  I for one would need to know what you were talking about.   There was a story about a guy that came back to work for that road show the school did.  There is a story, unsubstantiated, that he had some kid of sexual relation with Sumner.  If that were true I would say it was a break of trust in the same way that Joe and AVH was, but not sexual predation. But look at another case.

  A returning alum is getting the wood put to her in the Penthouse dorm by a teacher.  Enough so the sound is traveling though the walls to the students rooms. Sound pretty smarmy.  Fill in the names and it seems like good old fashion sex between consenting adults.

  I hope you know what you are talking about when you throw this kind of crap out into a public forum,  Fuck the lawyers, karma will get you man.
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Offline Ursus

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Sexual Predation
« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2007, 03:57:03 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Back to the topic.  I am sure some were deeply moved and changed for the better by knowing Mr. Hawley, but I think that boost would have taken a big nose dive if you came back to visit or teach, only for a come-on from him.  Was that the "unique potential" he saw when he stuck up for you?  Was he just out of touch, or maybe were his jollies in question?
I for one would need to know what you were talking about.   There was a story about a guy that came back to work for that road show the school did.  There is a story, unsubstantiated, that he had some kid of sexual relation with Sumner.  If that were true I would say it was a break of trust in the same way that Joe and AVH was, but not sexual predation. But look at another case.

A returning alum is getting the wood put to her in the Penthouse dorm by a teacher.  Enough so the sound is traveling though the walls to the students rooms. Sound pretty smarmy.  Fill in the names and it seems like good old fashion sex between consenting adults.

I hope you know what you are talking about when you throw this kind of crap out into a public forum,  Fuck the lawyers, karma will get you man.

Personally, I do consider it to be sexual predation.  I also consider Joe Gauld's involvement with the former student AVH to be in that same category:  sexual predation.  It may not be "criminal" from the standpoint of the American legal system, since we are talking about returning alums, but I still consider it to be predatory in nature.  That's my opinion, and I stand by it.  You can call me any name you'd like, if it makes you feel you have bigger balls.  You might also want to consider the possibility that you'll only be shooting yourself in the foot.

Hyde has had plenty of other cases which were criminal; I certainly do not need to add to that list, it's plenty long enough as it is.  And as you well know, I never called it "child molestation."  And I never used the term "boys."  That is, with respect to Sumner Hawley.  Some people need to get a handle on their riled up imaginations and put their petty personal vendettas to rest.
 
You can rattle on about karma all you want; I am still entitled to my opinion.  I'd like to see how you would feel about knowingly sending your kids to an institution which has a history of kids and alums being subjected to these kinds of shenanigans.  I would venture that you chose to forgo that pleasure.
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Offline Ursus

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Sexual Predation
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2007, 04:24:34 PM »
Let me once again pull out that quote from the Topica list which discusses Rutter, emphasis mine:

Quote
Rutter takes the position that a "forbidden zone always exists in the relationship between doctor and patient, therapist and client, clergyman and congregant, lawyer and client, teacher and student. All of these professions carry a special trust not to abuse the seen or unseen dependent elements that inevitably develop." Because of the greater power of the professional, the client is unable to give truly informed consent, and it is thus the responsibility of the person in the more powerful position to control the necessary boundary between the two parties.

"Amorous relationships that might be appropriate in other circumstances are always wrong when they occur between any teacher or officer and any student for whom he or she has a professional responsibility. Further, such relationships may have the effect of undermining the atmosphere of trust on which the educational process depends. Implicit in the idea of professionalism is the recognition by those in positions of authority that in their relationships with students there is always an element of power. It is incumbent upon those with authority not to abuse, nor seem to abuse, the power with which they are entrusted."

Let's now pull up a picture of the circumstances.  While still students, these alums were subjected to and participated in an "experiment" (Hyde's term) of thought coercion and behavior modification for a small number of years.  During that time, faculty were considered next to God as far as having any kind of moral authority is concerned, and on a more mundane level, had the capacity to determine in very real ways a student's  success or failure in the system, let alone their ability to even graduate.  Since Hyde's system of awarding certificates, let alone diplomas, is SO subjective and amenable to intervention on the part of even a single faculty member, the power of this position can not be underestimated.

Said alums come back for a visit, or to teach, whatever, after a few years of college.  Tell me that you wouldn't be pulled right back into that same mindset you were in previously, during the formative years of your youth!  You are right there, in the same environment, the same power structure still in place, most of the same people still there, the same campus, the same smells, the same routine... After all, it has only been a couple of years.  And then, while you are there, one of your teachers, or Gauld himself, lets it be known to you that their interest in you is less than platonic.  What would YOU do?

I think most normal people's reaction would be to run for the hills.  But... you've been brainwashed to believe that your former teachers are next to God.  They, better than you, have the know-how and the moral authority to make those kind of judgments.  And, you believe in Hyde -- you have to, after all, you graduated -- so you believe in them too...

I think this goes far beyond "unseemly," or "smarmy," or "good old-fashioned sex between consenting adults."  The power dynamic is far too disparate.  In my opinion, the issue of "full consent" is more than severely tainted, at best.
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Offline hyde82

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Re: Sumner Hawley
« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2008, 08:41:47 PM »
Sumner was around Hyde in the late 70's and on the board if I recall later.  I can't believe you are still talking about him.  In fact, I have read quite a bit of these posts and can't believe there are people out there still affected by their high school.  Get over it people.. it was high school.  I will bet that every single private boarding school has the same exact issues as Hyde when it comes to sexual indiscretions between students and faculty.  It is sad.  But 25+ years later and still letting it run your life?  I think people that are affected by things to this extent are affected by choice.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Sumner Hawley
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2008, 02:14:18 AM »
Quote from: "hyde82"
Sumner was around Hyde in the late 70's and on the board if I recall later.  I can't believe you are still talking about him.  In fact, I have read quite a bit of these posts and can't believe there are people out there still affected by their high school.  Get over it people.. it was high school.  I will bet that every single private boarding school has the same exact issues as Hyde when it comes to sexual indiscretions between students and faculty.  It is sad.  But 25+ years later and still letting it run your life?  I think people that are affected by things to this extent are affected by choice.

Was it just a "high school" for YOU? Well. More power to you. Hope that goes well for you. Hyde Schools wouldnt still be doing business if they screwed EVERYBODY now would they? Even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day.

Other schools have "the same exact issues as Hyde"?  No way.

Dont know where you get off telling people to "get over it" though either.  Who are you to judge? Oh. You went to Hyde. Where you learn to judge and rip your friends apart in Disco group.  Do you go to the homeless shelter and yell at those people to get over it and get a job too?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Sumner Hawley
« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2008, 01:27:37 PM »
better listen to Mrs. Mom, hyde82

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Sumner Hawley
« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2008, 03:56:36 PM »
Quote from: "DB"
Quote from: "hyde82"
Sumner was around Hyde in the late 70's and on the board if I recall later.  I can't believe you are still talking about him.  In fact, I have read quite a bit of these posts and can't believe there are people out there still affected by their high school.  Get over it people.. it was high school.  I will bet that every single private boarding school has the same exact issues as Hyde when it comes to sexual indiscretions between students and faculty.  It is sad.  But 25+ years later and still letting it run your life?  I think people that are affected by things to this extent are affected by choice.

Was it just a "high school" for YOU? Well. More power to you. Hope that goes well for you. Hyde Schools wouldnt still be doing business if they screwed EVERYBODY now would they? Even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day.

Other schools have "the same exact issues as Hyde"?  No way.

Dont know where you get off telling people to "get over it" though either.  Who are you to judge? Oh. You went to Hyde. Where you learn to judge and rip your friends apart in Disco group.  Do you go to the homeless shelter and yell at those people to get over it and get a job too?


1) My broken clock blows fuses. It is never right.  Who am I to judge? It is my unique potential.

2) Yes you should get over the fact that you sucked an old mans cock 30 years ago.

3) Yes other schools do have the issues that Hyde has, but it is a subset. Teachers bugger students all the time in normal high schools.  It is in the papers every day.  It is nothing new. "Normal" high schools do not have the cult like aspects that Hyde does. So you get extra special issues with Hyde.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Sumner Hawley
« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2008, 09:51:33 AM »
Quote from: "hyde82"
Sumner was around Hyde in the late 70's and on the board if I recall later.  I can't believe you are still talking about him.  In fact, I have read quite a bit of these posts and can't believe there are people out there still affected by their high school.  Get over it people.. it was high school.  I will bet that every single private boarding school has the same exact issues as Hyde when it comes to sexual indiscretions between students and faculty.  It is sad.  But 25+ years later and still letting it run your life?  I think people that are affected by things to this extent are affected by choice.

"Get over it"... "run your life"... Pretty derisive phrases these, eh? But that's how Hyde corrals its minions, for the most part, isn't it? Not everyone is unlucky enough to be subjected to the work crew/2-4 treatment, but everyone gets the coercion through derision workout... Another Hyde poster used a good term for it as well: "disparagement." I think he hit the nail on the head. Pray tell, do you work there? Sounds like you must have in the past, at the very least.

No, Hyde is not like "every single [other] private boarding school." Ever stop to wonder why you get all these ads for reform schools, military schools, boot camps, and other hellholes when you Google it? Somehow those ads never come up when you Google a bona fide boarding school.

Nor does Hyde have the "same exact issues." Using your example, namely "sexual indiscretions between students and faculty," you will never find the number of, let alone the trauma associated with, the incidents that you find at Hyde School. And given the indifference of Hyde's administration, let alone its practice of penalizing the victim and not the perpetrator, it is amazing that you even hear of the incidents that you do. As another poster put it, in discussing a case that was never officially made public: "...but who would want to stay, really, after such an experience. Certainly she had enough experience with Hyde's seminar process to wish not to expose her soft underbelly to the jackals."
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Sumner Hawley
« Reply #74 on: January 18, 2008, 10:29:20 AM »
Quote from: "sweetiePi"
2) Yes you should get over the fact that you sucked an old mans cock 30 years ago.

Good Lord.  If you are in the habit of using that as one of your lame-ass pickup lines, I can assure you that you will not get far. Lols! Is this what those thinly veiled insinuations were all about, a few days ago in the "sexual misconduct" thread? Geez Louise!! You're barking at the wrong bear here, bro!

Not that it makes much difference, since you've made your point ever so well. Much better than I ever could have. I'd venture that not many a parent is going to feel too warm and fuzzy after reading that about a behavior modification joint they're considering for Junior's sake, ha ha!

Quote from: "sweetiePi"
3) Yes other schools do have the issues that Hyde has, but it is a subset. Teachers bugger students all the time in normal high schools. It is in the papers every day. It is nothing new. "Normal" high schools do not have the cult like aspects that Hyde does. So you get extra special issues with Hyde.

Good point! And as I hope everybody knows, trauma induced during cult time... stays around a L-O-N-G time... Gotta love those "extra special issues!"  They might even CLOCK you!!   ;)
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