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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Aspen Seminars
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2008, 04:31:50 PM »
Here's a description of one parent's experience with these seminars.  It's a small excerpt (there's much more at the link) from an extensive piece written by Karen Lile.  It's an eye opening look into what these places do and how they do it. 


Breaking the Vow of Secrecy
http://www.insidersview.info/breakingthesecrecy.htm

THE FACILITATOR'S UNEXPECTED BEHAVIOR:

At one point, he used a large white writing pad placed on an easel in the front of the room, to write comments and illustrate points. After informing us that the object of the seminar was to find our Magical Inner Child, he drew a small circle and surrounded it with three other circles. The inner circle represented the Magical Child, the next circle layer represented "Fixed Beliefs" , the next layer represented "Fixed Emotions" and the outer layer represented "Fixed Behavior" Image" He used words like "protection" and "ego" as well. He stated that the purpose of the Discovery Seminar was to penetrate all these outer circles to reach the Magical Child, which was hidden in all of us. I was rather perplexed about the relevance of this to me. I had done an extensive amount of individual and group therapy, read numerous self-help books and done lots of inner growth work. He seemed to be assuming that I did not have this knowledge. Considering that Teen Help had never asked for my personal background and growth experience before asking me to attend this seminar, I realized Don couldn't possibly know very much about me and what work I had already done. I was sure I could find something of value in what he was saying and so continued to pay attention.

He then began to talk about concepts of right and wrong. To illustrate his point, he singled me out, walking halfway across the room, to the outer isle seat where I was sitting. He stood so close to me, I was very uncomfortable. I had feelings of intimidation. I didn't want to act on those feelings, so I stood up and faced him squarely and said, "You are in my space". I had put my hand on my hip, when I said that. Instead of stepping out of my space, he put his hand on his hip and mocked me with his expression and gesture and leaned closer to me. He did not step back. I am about 5'4" tall and he was about 6'5" tall and broad across the chest. I had a tremendous urge to take my hand and gently push him away from me until he was at an appropriate distance, but I decided to wait and see why he was doing this. I was fully aware that my husband would stand up in my defense if I gave him an indication I wanted help.

I said, "You are also much bigger than I am" . I had a full sense of the power of Don's personality and also of his physical strength when he was standing this close to me. Suddenly, he changed from a mocking behavior to the aggressive stance he had described earlier as gangster posture. He pointed his finger at my face, about ½" inch away from right between my eyes. He said forcefully, "I could rob you." He paused, looking me straight in the eyes with menace; "I could take away your woman hood." He paused for a response and when I gave none, he said, "I could kill you."

I looked back at him and felt the full force of his words. I knew that this facilitator knew nothing about my history. Others had confronted me before with this full intent. I looked him in the eyes and knew he was indeed capable of doing these things. I stood my ground, but I was shaken to the core. He had changed his behavior so quickly, I had had no warning and I was frozen in a state of shock. There were 90 other people in the room watching and no one said a word. He shook his finger at me and leaned closer, raising his voice to say, "and could I say I was right?" I was convinced that he could indeed believe that he was right in doing these things. I never wavered in my eye contact, feeling that this was indeed a dangerous man that I could not afford to show fear to. I answered softly, but with firmness, "Yes, you could" . He stared at me for a few more minutes in silence. I stared back.

Then he broke the tension by laughing. He dropped his aggressive stance and leaned closer, saying, "You are welcome in my space anytime," in a slightly suggestive manner. I was shocked at his uninvited familiarity and said nothing, neither did I laugh or move back. Actually, there was nowhere for me to move back to without stepping on my husband who was still sitting in the next seat.

Don turned around and walked over to the front of the room again. He continued speaking, as if there was nothing abnormal about his behavior. He went on to prove a point that even murderers can kill people and say they are right, believing it entirely. He said, "even a serial killer has a support group." I thought of Hitler and his support group and realized that Don had a valid point. Don then made the bold and unexpected conclusion that this proved that there was no right or wrong. From there he went on to tell us how words could be powerful shapers of reality and that we would be better to use the words "working" and "not working" .

He went on to talk of other concepts. One thing he said hit me hard. He was making a point that everyone in the room had a problem or they wouldn't be at the Seminar. To prove his point, he said that he had heard our children's confessions and had information that we did not have. He said that our children had told us about how we had wronged them. He stated that he had even felt their nails clawing on his arms as he had to wrestle them to the floor." I don't remember why he said he had to wrestle them to the floor, because his statement was so shocking, it provoked a host of questions. I thought, "What is this man doing touching my child? Why is he doing seminars for all the programs? Why should he have more information about my child than I do? What kind of relationship does he have with my child?"

I was too much in a state of shock, from what was happening, to carefully process my questions and listen to his words at the same time. And he was talking so fast; there was no time to think about things. In order to cope with my emotions and still focus on what had just happened, I found myself start to experience the seminar on two different levels simultaneously: an emotional level and a mental level. On an emotional level, I was truly frightened that this man had been so disrespectful of my space and person to do and say what he had just done and said. I was also beginning to worry about my daughter and what it had meant earlier when he had said that the Parent Seminar was a "watered down version" of that experienced by the teens. I was a bit worried about what more he would feel inclined to do with my daughter, if he had been so bold with me. On a mental level, I was trying to set aside what had just happened and follow the logic of what he was saying. This was an effort, because my emotions were quite strong. But, I have developed a powerful ability to appear calm and rational in the midst of a crisis. I used this talent to follow the content of his words.

He next began to solicit involvement from the audience. He was moving very fast and there was little time to process what was happening. He told people that he wanted them to give him words that represented the "image" that people had about themselves. As people raised their hands, he would point to them and then turn around and write what they said on the board quickly and forcefully. He supplied the first few words to get people started. He wrote words like "tough, angry, perfect, pitiful, clown, comedian, gang, shy, attitude, conceited, know it all, victim, cheap, macho, judge, nerd, nothing's wrong," on the paper. Then he moved quickly on to the next page and solicited words to describe the Magical Child: "precious, joyful, open, curious, innocent, playful, powerful, happy, soft, loving, friendly, moment, natural, cute, spontaneous, smart, trusting, unique, wise, and understanding."

As I was thinking about what he was saying, I started to realize that his questions were not at all open ended. When he had opened the pad of paper and said, "All right now it's your turn to talk. I promise I won't always be the one up here talking all the time," I had expected him to be conducting an open discussion, inviting questions from the parents and then shaping a discussion tailored to what they felt was important. Instead, he seemed to have already decided what he wanted to hear, and was leading the audience in a set of rhetorical questions designed to produce the answers that would support his thesis.

At this point, he stopped and said, "The purpose of Education is to unsettle the mind." And explained that he had had a university professor that had taught him what education was really all about and that this had formed the basis for his assumption. He stated with pride that he was going to do for us in this seminar what his professor had done for him. I wondered who this professor was, and why I should consider him an authority in my life. If unpredictable behavior, mixed messages and flaws in the logic provoked unsettling the mind, then he was doing a good job.

It is my belief that the purpose of education is to expand the mind, giving it freedom, room to grow and lots of opportunity to analyze and weigh differing viewpoints. My educational experience had emphasized freedom of thought and supported diversity. I wasn't willing to accept his assumption that unsettling the mind was the objective. But, coming from an education in which I had encountered many viewpoints, I was willing to try out his hypothesis during the course of the seminar. It was my intention to learn what I could from this experience and to take what I could from his comments, even if I didn't agree with the way that he was approaching things.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline TheWho

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Re: Aspen Seminars
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2008, 04:48:12 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Gee, Who.  It all sounds so supportive and caring when you say it.  Sort of like those slickly worded, glossy brochures of programs with smiling kids and doting and devoted staff.  And on some level I'm sure you believe some of your own bullshit.  You'd have to in order to live with what you've done but it is so far from reality. 

This is exactly how cults/cult-like programs and thought reform works.  They all sound so good.  They tell scared parents that they've found the answer.  That they're somehow different and special from "other places" (usually cult-codespeak for actual medical or professional therapy).  People don't "willingly" join a cult.  They're coerced into it, just like programs coerce parents and kids into believing that they are somehow effective or relevant or therapeutic.  They're not.  They're anything but.   I think Ginger's made the comparison to a woman in an abusive relationship.  She's been isolated.  She's been emotionally beaten down and feels helpless and worthless and that the problems are of her own  making (w/ the kids this is accomplished thru confrontational therapy which ALL of these places use to some extent, ya know....to help them realize what they've done and how they've effected the family).   She's convinced that she can't 'make it' (deadinsaneorinjail) without him and that he is the only one that truly loves her and that the beatings are for her own good, ya know....to help her understand what she's done wrong and how its effected him.

Abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse.


I your post a few times and it must really stink to have to wake up and view the world thru your eyes and see everything as so evil and negative.  Whether it was your upbringing or your time at straight that did that to you it must be difficult to live in that prison you have built for yourself and I feel for you.

Just as it is hard for many to understand what your experiences were in the program (comparing it to an abusive relationship) it must be equally hard for you to see  and understand the programs which are beneficial to so many of our kids today (viewing it as helpful to the entire family).  It is all relative to our individual points of view (or vantage points) how we perceive other peoples experiences.

Each of us can view each other’s point of view as the result of brainwashing  But the fact remains that the industry is expanding and kids are receiving tremendous help from some of these places.  The trick is to find the right placement which will help each child and avoid the path that you took.

We should note that the article you posted is unrelated to ASPEN and their programs.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Aspen Seminars
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2008, 05:09:16 PM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
I your post a few times and it must really stink to have to wake up and view the world thru your eyes and see everything as so evil and negative.  Whether it was your upbringing or your time at straight that did that to you it must be difficult to live in that prison you have built for yourself and I feel for you.


Oh please don't.  I don't need your pity, moron.  There is no prison anymore.  There was, due to my time in a cult-like program that at the time was touted to be  'state of the art' and 'different and special' from the 'others'.


Quote
Just as it is hard for many to understand what your experiences were in the program (comparing it to an abusive relationship) it must be equally hard for you to see  and understand the programs which are beneficial to so many of our kids today (viewing it as helpful to the entire family).  It is all relative to our individual points of view (or vantage points) how we perceive other peoples experiences.

Nope.  I've seen what real, true help is and it's got nothing to do with TBSs/RTCs/LGAT seminars/wilderness 'therapy' or whatever other name you want to assign to though reform and behavior modification.

Quote
Each of us can view each other’s point of view as the result of brainwashing  But the fact remains that the industry is expanding and kids are receiving tremendous help from some of these places.


It does seem to be a fact that the industry is expanding, but that's more due to slick promotion and fear tactics that have been used these past decades.  They work!  What is NOT a fact is that anyone receives any sort of help at all.  Please cite your sources for long term, randomized, clinical studies to support such an opinion.


Quote
We should note that the article you posted is unrelated to ASPEN and their programs.


We shou8ld also note that Aspen's seminars are taken almost DIRECTLY from LGATs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline TheWho

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Re: Aspen Seminars
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2008, 05:36:41 PM »
Quote
Oh please don't.  I don't need your pity, moron.  There is no prison anymore.  There was, due to my time in a cult-like program that at the time was touted to be  'state of the art' and 'different and special' from the 'others'.

Sorry you need to respond by resorting to name calling..... you need to inform the readers your experience was decades ago.

Quote
Nope.  I've seen what real, true help is and it's got nothing to do with TBSs/RTCs/LGAT seminars/wilderness 'therapy' or whatever other name you want to assign to though reform and behavior modification.
Your exposure to other programs and current information is pretty weak (actually you have none).  You really don’t know what you are talking about.  You attended one program decades ago.  I am familiar with the results of “todays” programs and have spoken to many children who have graduated in recent years.   Not the same as the 1970’s/80’s or even 1990’s!!

Quote
It does seem to be a fact that the industry is expanding, but that's more due to slick promotion and fear tactics that have been used these past decades.  They work!  What is NOT a fact is that anyone receives any sort of help at all.  Please cite your sources for long term, randomized, clinical studies to support such an opinion.
There is really no point in arguing this one.  Industries expand based on positive results; they deflate due to negative results. 
Quote
We shou8ld also note that Aspen's seminars are taken almost DIRECTLY from LGATs.

Thank you for clarifying,Anne.  LGAT’s are used by almost every large corporation in America.  It is a quick way to get information out to a large group without tying up valuable productive time at work (or in school).  There is nothing wrong with Seminars.  Almost everyone I have spoken to has attended a 1 – 3 day seminar (LGAT).  They are very effective and harmless, although, now maybe the coffee and breakfast rolls can be deadly Ha,Ha,Ha.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Aspen Seminars
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2008, 05:09:16 PM »
HAR, maties!  Thar blows the Who!  Har, Who!  Prepare to be boarded!  Ye's about to git a butt scuttlin', ye lyin' son of a whore!  Grease up the lanyards and heave-to, laddies!  We's about to harpoon the Who's tender buttocks!
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Aspen Seminars
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2008, 01:47:56 PM »
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/

Coercive Persuasion and Attitude Change

Coercive persuasion and thought reform are alternate names for programs of social influence capable of producing substantial behavior and attitude change through the use of coercive tactics, persuasion, and/or interpersonal and group-based influence manipulations (Schein 1961; Lifton 1961). Such programs have also been labeled "brainwashing" (Hunter 1951), a term more often used in the media than in scientific literature. However identified, these programs are distinguishable from other elaborate attempts to influence behavior and attitudes, to socialize, and to accomplish social control. Their distinguishing features are their totalistic qualities (Lifton 1961), the types of influence procedures they employ, and the organization of these procedures into three distinctive subphases of the overall process (Schein 1961; Ofshe andSinger 1986). The key factors that distinguish coercive persuasion from other training and socialization schemes are

    * (1) the reliance on intense interpersonal and psychological attack to destabilize an individual's sense of self
    * to promote compliance,
    * (2) the use of an organized peer group,
    * (3)applying interpersonal pressure to promote conformity, and
    * (4) the manipulation of the totality of the person's social environment to stabilize behavior once modified.

Thought-reform programs have been employed in attempts to control and indoctrinate individuals, societal groups (e.g., intellectuals), and even entire populations. Systems intended to accomplish these goals can vary considerably in their construction. Even the first systems studied under the label "thought reform" ranged from those in which confinement and physical assault were employed (Schein 1956; Lifton 1954; Lifton 1961 pp. 19-85) to applications that were carried out under nonconfined conditions, in which nonphysical coercion substituted for assault (Lifton 1961, pp. 242-273; Schein 1961, pp. 290-298). The individuals to whom these influence programs were applied were in some cases unwilling subjects (prisoner populations) and in other cases volunteers who sought to participate in what they believed might be a career-beneficial, educational experience (Lifton 1981, p. 248).

Significant differences existed between the social environments and the control mechanisms employed in the two types of programs initially studied. Their similarities, however, are of more importance in understanding their ability to influence behavior and beliefs than are their differences. They shared the utilization of coercive persuasion's key effective-influence mechanisms: a focused attack on the stability of a person's sense of self; reliance on peer group interaction; the development of interpersonal bonds between targets and their controllers and peers; and an ability to control communication among participants. Edgar Schein captured the essential similarity between the types of programs in his definition of the coercive-persuasion phenomenon. Schein noted that even for prisoners, what happened was a subjection to "unusually intense and prolonged persuasion" that they could not avoid; thus, "they were coerced into allowing themselves to be persuaded" (Schein 1961, p. 18).

Programs of both types (confined/assaultive and nonconfined/nonassaultive) cause a range of cognitive and behavioral responses. The reported cognitive responses vary from apparently rare instances, classifiable as internalized belief change (enduring change), to a frequently observed transient alteration in beliefs that appears to be situationally adaptive and, finally, to reactions of nothing less than firm intellectual resistance and hostility (Lifton 1961, pp. 117-151, 399-415; Schein 1961, pp. 157-166).

The phrase situationally adaptive belief change refers to attitude change that is not stable and is environment dependent. This type of response to the influence pressures of coercive-persuasion programs is perhaps the most surprising of the responses that have been observed. The combination of psychological assault on the self, interpersonal pressure, and the social organization of the environment creates a situation that can only be coped with by adapting and acting so as to present oneself to others in terms of the ideology supported in the environment (see below for discussion). Eliciting the desired verbal and interactive behavior sets up conditions likely to stimulate the development of attitudes consistent with and that function to rationalize new behavior in which the individual is engaging. Models of attitude change, such as the theory of Cognitive Dissonance (Festinger 1957) or Self-Perception Theory (Bern 1972), explain the tendency for consistent attitudes to develop as a consequence of behavior.

The surprising aspect of the situationally adaptive response is that the attitudes that develop are unstable. They tend to change dramatically once the person is removed from an environment that has totalistic properties and is organized to support the adaptive attitudes. Once removed from such an environment, the person is able to interact with others who permit and encourage the expression of criticisms and doubts, which were previously stifled because of the normative rules of the reform environment (Schein 1961, p. 163; Lifton 1961, pp. 87-116, 399-415; Ofshe and Singer 1986). This pattern of change, first in one direction and then the other, dramatically highlights the profound importance of social support in the explanation of attitude change and stability. This relationship has for decades been one of the principal interests in the field of social psychology.


Then there's the horrifying experience that Karen Lile had with.


http://www.insidersview.info/breakingthesecrecy.htm
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Offline TheWho

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Re: Aspen Seminars
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2008, 02:14:01 PM »
lol!! where did that come from?  Someone mix up their meds?  Dont see what this has to do with seminars or awarness training.  Lets get back on topic everyone.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Aspen Seminars
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2008, 02:24:10 PM »
Quote from: "Liturgy"
lol!! where did that come from?  Someone mix up their meds?  Dont see what this has to do with seminars or awarness training.  Lets get back on topic everyone.

No, its directly related.  Try adjusting your dosage.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Aspen Seminars
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2010, 11:28:57 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
I remember what it was like when I had nobody to turn to. Being at an Aspen program was so hard for me, I had no voice, nobody believed me about anything. I hate the fact that the majority of people if not all people have no idea where I am coming from. My husband is wondering why I even care, and I should just put this all behind me. Nobody knows until you are locked up in one of these places, and the days go by sooooo slowly. Look, I am 24 years old. I thought at the age of 18 I was done with all this (that's my guesstimate when I first let go, now it has come back). Well, I gave it a lot of time, ,and energy back in the day. Nobody fought for me, I didn't have people like you on my side. Had I had the support that's so obviously there for teens now, I would have taken these assholes down a long time ago. I am here to say THINK TWICE BEFORE SENDING YOUR CHILDREN TO ANY OF THESE ASPEN PROGRAMS. Seriously, when I was there they hired just anyone off the street. The only person that had any kind of degree around there was your therapist who you saw once a week. These staff were young, and had no experience with kids. Lately, I have felt horrible. All these kids, who like me didn't want to be sent away. It wasn't by choice. I know my parents made some very poor decisions. The decision of sending me to a program ranks # 1 on the list. Still after all these years, my Dad says how sorry he is. My Dad is 85 years old, and loves watching Fox News. There has been reports on abusive facilities, and now he realizes that I was telling the truth. Especially, when I am able to tell him everything today just the way I did all those years ago. It's amazing, I remember things as if it were only yesterday. You always remember the truth, because you experienced it. Lies get washed away. I need to know why this has gone so far? Why after all these years is it still happening? Years later I do a "google search" and I am horrified. I thought having one school was bad enough, but knowing that they've multiplied like this???? How did this happen? I should have done something while I had the chance. With the financial momentum they have, they get squashed, then they re-invent themselves. I want to know you TheWho, how do you wake up everyday and look at yourself in the mirror?

 :'(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Aspen Seminars
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2010, 01:23:10 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Guest"
I remember what it was like when I had nobody to turn to. Being at an Aspen program was so hard for me, I had no voice, nobody believed me about anything. I hate the fact that the majority of people if not all people have no idea where I am coming from. My husband is wondering why I even care, and I should just put this all behind me. Nobody knows until you are locked up in one of these places, and the days go by sooooo slowly. Look, I am 24 years old. I thought at the age of 18 I was done with all this (that's my guesstimate when I first let go, now it has come back). Well, I gave it a lot of time, ,and energy back in the day. Nobody fought for me, I didn't have people like you on my side. Had I had the support that's so obviously there for teens now, I would have taken these assholes down a long time ago. I am here to say THINK TWICE BEFORE SENDING YOUR CHILDREN TO ANY OF THESE ASPEN PROGRAMS. Seriously, when I was there they hired just anyone off the street. The only person that had any kind of degree around there was your therapist who you saw once a week. These staff were young, and had no experience with kids. Lately, I have felt horrible. All these kids, who like me didn't want to be sent away. It wasn't by choice. I know my parents made some very poor decisions. The decision of sending me to a program ranks # 1 on the list. Still after all these years, my Dad says how sorry he is. My Dad is 85 years old, and loves watching Fox News. There has been reports on abusive facilities, and now he realizes that I was telling the truth. Especially, when I am able to tell him everything today just the way I did all those years ago. It's amazing, I remember things as if it were only yesterday. You always remember the truth, because you experienced it. Lies get washed away. I need to know why this has gone so far? Why after all these years is it still happening? Years later I do a "google search" and I am horrified. I thought having one school was bad enough, but knowing that they've multiplied like this???? How did this happen? I should have done something while I had the chance. With the financial momentum they have, they get squashed, then they re-invent themselves. I want to know you TheWho, how do you wake up everyday and look at yourself in the mirror?

 :'(

Just a suggestion.  I think it would have been more effective if the poster ran a quick google search on Aspen programs and just picked a name at random (i.e. Academy at Swift River, Aspen Ranch etc.).  It would have only taken him a second.  It is obvious that the poster wasn't familiar with any of the Aspen programs.



...
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Aspen Seminars
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2010, 01:30:30 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Guest"
I remember what it was like when I had nobody to turn to. Being at an Aspen program was so hard for me, I had no voice, nobody believed me about anything. I hate the fact that the majority of people if not all people have no idea where I am coming from. My husband is wondering why I even care, and I should just put this all behind me. Nobody knows until you are locked up in one of these places, and the days go by sooooo slowly. Look, I am 24 years old. I thought at the age of 18 I was done with all this (that's my guesstimate when I first let go, now it has come back). Well, I gave it a lot of time, ,and energy back in the day. Nobody fought for me, I didn't have people like you on my side. Had I had the support that's so obviously there for teens now, I would have taken these assholes down a long time ago. I am here to say THINK TWICE BEFORE SENDING YOUR CHILDREN TO ANY OF THESE ASPEN PROGRAMS. Seriously, when I was there they hired just anyone off the street. The only person that had any kind of degree around there was your therapist who you saw once a week. These staff were young, and had no experience with kids. Lately, I have felt horrible. All these kids, who like me didn't want to be sent away. It wasn't by choice. I know my parents made some very poor decisions. The decision of sending me to a program ranks # 1 on the list. Still after all these years, my Dad says how sorry he is. My Dad is 85 years old, and loves watching Fox News. There has been reports on abusive facilities, and now he realizes that I was telling the truth. Especially, when I am able to tell him everything today just the way I did all those years ago. It's amazing, I remember things as if it were only yesterday. You always remember the truth, because you experienced it. Lies get washed away. I need to know why this has gone so far? Why after all these years is it still happening? Years later I do a "google search" and I am horrified. I thought having one school was bad enough, but knowing that they've multiplied like this???? How did this happen? I should have done something while I had the chance. With the financial momentum they have, they get squashed, then they re-invent themselves. I want to know you TheWho, how do you wake up everyday and look at yourself in the mirror?

 :'(

Just a suggestion.  I think it would have been more effective if the poster ran a quick google search on Aspen programs and just picked a name at random (i.e. Academy at Swift River, Aspen Ranch etc.).  It would have only taken him a second.  It is obvious that the poster wasn't familiar with any of the Aspen programs.


In other words.......Damage control!  Damage control!!!   :lala:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa