THIS is why SUE wins all those cases!!

[Joyce Harris]

Sue Scheff does not seem to believe that people have the same exact RIGHTS that she has.

Sue Scheff claims that her daughter was abused in a WWASP facility; and for years, she has highly criticized WWASP and its owners loudly and consistingly--verbally, and in print about her daughter's abuse.
I don't write BLOGS about Scheff--defending WWASPS facilities; while praising the  Litchfields and Kays as loving, caring  peeple who have spent years sacrificing themselves for all these children who have spent wondeful happy years in their  WWASP "schools."

I don't blog, blaming Scheff for any, and all of Litchfield and Kay's legal problems; just because Scheff complains about her daughter's abuse in their facility.

I certainly don't blog and insinuate that Scheff' perhaps wrongfully complains about WWASP, and their owner,s because perhaps, maybe, it seems,  other may have said; or that I heard [/---Scheff withdrew her daughter from this WWASP facility early because she ]may have feared [/i]that her daughter might reveal family secrets that Scheff didn't want her daughter to reveal.
I didn't speculate in a BLOG that perhaps Scheff may have removed her daughter from this WWASP facility early because Scheff may have feared her young daughter may have revealed her mother's past relationship a boyfried, who was so abusive, that it required Scheff to file domestic violence charges against him in a court of law.  I didn't blog and ask, "What else did this daughter know that she might reveal?";

I don't speculate in a BLOG that perhaps Scheff may have removed her daughter early; and that in my opinion she probably lied about WWASP because she may have feard her daughter might have been getting ready to reveal some other family secrets of what? perhaps family abuse, maybe violence--since it has been said this girl's father may have had drinking problems; and [someone saidthis mother may have struck this daughter in the face and attempted to choke her?  .

The above 2 paragraph 2, is the type of hearsay, vicious gossip, and opinions that Sue Scheff wrote in her BLOG "Whitmore Academy- My Experiences."

I believe Sue Scheff's daughter was abused in that WWASP facility.
I don't believe children are "manipulative liars" who lie about their experiences in these programs.
And I believe Scheff has the right to criticize her daughter's abusers.

BUT: I maintain that I HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS SUE SCHEFF.I have the RIGHT to criticize the abusive facility; and its owners where I placed my daughter for education and treatment.
And Sue Scheff, of all people, does not have the right to try and silence my criticism - since she, and her company PURE recommended Whitmore Academy to my family.

[psy]

I doubt she is jewish. I called her one because of her obvious and extreme greed and unscrupulusness, and her big ugly nose. Plus I got to generate more links to /Jew.

Also, take note that the article at /Jew is (guess what) written BY JEWS.  It's self mockery taken to an extreme to point out the absurdity of prejudice itself (or it's done just for shits and giggles (lulz)).  It's very clearly satire.  South Park does it...  with Jews too.. and Drawn together does it... With Jews too.  Nothing is sacro-sanct anymore, and that's the way it should be, as far as i'm concerned (it sounds crazy, but when all taboos die, speech is truly free).  Good thing or bad thing, it's the way it's headed.

[TheWho]

I doubt she is jewish. I called her one because of her obvious and extreme greed and unscrupulusness, and her big ugly nose. Plus I got to generate more links to /Jew.

Also, take note that the article at /Jew is (guess what) written BY JEWS.  It's self mockery taken to an extreme to point out the absurdity of prejudice itself (or it's done just for shits and giggles (lulz)).  It's very clearly satire.  South Park does it...  with Jews too.. and Drawn together does it... With Jews too.  Nothing is sacro-sanct anymore, and that's the way it should be, as far as i'm concerned (it sounds crazy, but when all taboos die, speech is truly free).  Good thing or bad thing, it's the way it's headed.

So why excuse it?  Is the guy nihanthilic jewish?  I would guess not.  He did it out of hatred and its anti-semitic.  We all know that.  If this is about this woman Sue's job and what she does, you would be attacking her business not her race, kids and religion.

Its hate driven, lets face it.  Its not a parody.  You are hiding behind that.

[BuzzKill]

I feel compelled to comment once again - tho I can't think of much new to add. Still, its perhaps worth repeating: The racism and vulgarity some insist on exercising their right to express, greatly diminishes the value of this forum and its ability to function as intended - to educate and evaluate the issues surrounding institutional child abuse.

It offends many who we would not want to offend - those we hope will take an interest and assist us in getting this message out; not just those who we hold in contempt, and wish to hold up for greater examination by the public at large.

And like it or not - it does reflect on the character of everyone who uses these forums to express their thoughts and understanding and experiences.  Any stranger who comes across Fornits in their research, and who first stumbles upon the likes of what a few of these guys post, will come to the conclusion the forum is not a credible source of information but rather a cess pool not worth wading through.

I feel very irritated by the selfishness of those who insist on exercising their right to be obnoxious. Just b/c you can do something, doesn't mean you should. I know you all feel confident that the forum is now parked where anything goes - but you aren't considering all the possible consequences of your mindless racism and vulgarity.

Its not just a matter of a hosting company backing down or standing behind the forum. There are other risks and considerations.

Why can't you "freedom fighters" keep the seriously offensive "jokes" more private? Use the PM feature to share that kind of humor with your like minded friends. Why must you splash it on the public part of the forum? And if you need that public aspect - an internet version of the bath room wall - why can't you keep it in the Open forum or Let it Bleed?

Is that really to much to ask?

[Anonymous]

Any stranger who comes across Fornits in their research, and who first stumbles upon the likes of what a few of these guys post, will come to the conclusion the forum is not a credible source of information but rather a cess pool not worth wading through.

Haven't we heard this enough times? This argument is just plain wrong.

I mean sure, it'd turn people off if we posted nothing but NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER for 20 pages. But the whole "people will just run away" business is bullshit. Morbid curiosity alone is too strong. And usually it takes a good dose of sideways-hitting shock therapy to get through these people's heads.

"But it makes it look like a hate site"

Jesus Christ, how many times are we going to through this? Of course it's a fucking hate site. We're talking about the sadistic humiliation of children here. What were you expecting, hugs and kisses?

[Froderik]

I doubt she is jewish. I called her one because of her obvious and extreme greed and unscrupulusness, and her big ugly nose. Plus I got to generate more links to /Jew.

Also, take note that the article at /Jew is (guess what) written BY JEWS.  It's self mockery taken to an extreme to point out the absurdity of prejudice itself (or it's done just for shits and giggles (lulz)).  It's very clearly satire.  South Park does it...  with Jews too.. and Drawn together does it... With Jews too.  Nothing is sacro-sanct anymore, and that's the way it should be, as far as i'm concerned (it sounds crazy, but when all taboos die, speech is truly free).  Good thing or bad thing, it's the way it's headed.

So why excuse it?  Is the guy nihanthilic jewish?  I would guess not.  He did it out of hatred and its anti-semitic.  We all know that.  If this is about this woman Sue's job and what she does, you would be attacking her business not her race, kids and religion.

Its hate driven, lets face it.  Its not a parody.  You are hiding behind that.

Wow still going on about this, are we?
Whatever the case, Niles is one person and doesn't represent the views of everyone here.

[Che Gookin]

I rarely bother listening to most people, but Buzzkill probably is one of the 5 or 6 people I pay attention to. The rest of yall have to work at getting my attention. With this being said I just want to point out that what buzzkill just said is pretty damn good and worth listening to.

Also this is fornits.. yeah that implies we are the biker bar of cyberia, but on the other hand times are a changing. Certainly I don't think we ever have or will change into Encloypedia Dramatica. Nothing of what happens on the ED page should reflect on us. Unfortunately perception is reality and if you are trying to reach others that perception is a crucial bit needed for consideration.

I've listened to some of the above posters go on and on in my pm box about the need for us to be civil to parents. Yet here we have some of them saying, "hey.. its just ED and if they want to act like a bunch of racist putzs who are we to complain?"

Personally I don't give a toss what happens on ED, but when it has the possibility of tainting what we do by driving away parents that is something to consider.

[Anonymous]

Dude, I can't read your posts with those things coming at me.

ps.. glad you back.

[TheWho]

The whole defense “Free speechâ€

[Anne Bonney]

I feel compelled to comment once again - tho I can't think of much new to add. Still, its perhaps worth repeating: The racism and vulgarity some insist on exercising their right to express, greatly diminishes the value of this forum and its ability to function as intended - to educate and evaluate the issues surrounding institutional child abuse.

Well, when the forum started it was intended to be a place where survivors could come and talk and feel comfortable.  Yes there is a lot of information here too, but it IS a survivor's forum.  It irritates the shit out of me when people try and tell me how I should or shouldn't 'behave'.  I had enough of that shit 25 years ago.

It offends many who we would not want to offend - those we hope will take an interest and assist us in getting this message out; not just those who we hold in contempt, and wish to hold up for greater examination by the public at large.

As has been said before, most adults can see through the offensive posts and seek out the important stuff.  If they're turned away by a couple of offensive posts to the point where they won't continue searching the forum for relevant information, they're lost anyway.

And like it or not - it does reflect on the character of everyone who uses these forums to express their thoughts and understanding and experiences.  Any stranger who comes across Fornits in their research, and who first stumbles upon the likes of what a few of these guys post, will come to the conclusion the forum is not a credible source of information but rather a cess pool not worth wading through.

I disagree, see above.

I feel very irritated by the selfishness of those who insist on exercising their right to be obnoxious. Just b/c you can do something, doesn't mean you should. I know you all feel confident that the forum is now parked where anything goes - but you aren't considering all the possible consequences of your mindless racism and vulgarity.

I'm irritated at people telling me how and what to write.

Its not just a matter of a hosting company backing down or standing behind the forum. There are other risks and considerations.

Why can't you "freedom fighters" keep the seriously offensive "jokes" more private? Use the PM feature to share that kind of humor with your like minded friends. Why must you splash it on the public part of the forum? And if you need that public aspect - an internet version of the bath room wall - why can't you keep it in the Open forum or Let it Bleed?

Is that really to much to ask?

IMO, yes.  There are ISAC, Paula Reeves, NoSpank and other sites that serve that purpose.  Fornits fills a special niche for survivors of abusive programs.  For the record, I can't stand some of the shit that's posted around here, but it's not for me to tell someone else how to express themselves.

[BuzzKill]

Sure - I know Fornits is a forum for Survivors. But not entirely - is it?
I mean, there are all the various "program forums" on Fornits - like the Straight Inc forum - that forum exist as a place for survivors to "talk" about what is on their minds.

But when it comes to forums like this one - a general forum on the issues - isn't that less the case? Isn't it primarily for informational purposes - with a lot of survivors posting?

I am not saying anyone else should be telling you what to post - I am asking you ( everyone) to do this for yourselves - think first, and consider the greater good - for the benefit of all -

I really do not think that is an unreasonable request.

[Anne Bonney]

As I said, I think there are other sites that suit that purpose.  Fornits fills a very special niche that I don't want to lose.  It's the ONLY site that allows complete freedom of speech.  That means that we have to put up with material that may be offensive to us.  That's what I meant about the most vile speech being the most important to protect.

As always, that's just MHO.  If you're really that bothered by it, take it up with Ginger, but how many times have we gone round and round about this?

[Anonymous]

i am the one who said "what a disgrace of a jew" and i've been watching this post, laughing my ass off. i am a jew myself, as jewish as you get, 1st gen american orthodox jew. what i meant was that the lawyer working for sue is a disgrace to himself and his heritage. (on the assuption that he's jewish...he really looks it). sue scheff is the epitamy of what a jew should never be; or work with for that matter. a lawyer working for sue scheff is most definitely not fullfilling tikun olam, and is very, very, very far away from god.

i think it's extremely funny how my fellow jews (this applies to any ethnicity, actually), label anything which is said about them, regardless of how true, if it includes the word "jew/jews" or "black/nigger" or "mexican", it's automatically antisemetic, racist, or socially insensitive.

as far as the guest who said "kike said what", now YOU are fucked up. please, take a gun, load it, put it to your head and pull the trigger. although true, it's not my place or anyone's to police this forum.

[Ursus]

Personally, I think there is a certain amount of shock value to some of the more "offending posts."  Who, in their right, most honest mind, would not admit to wanting to read more to find out what that shit is all about, eh?  And if they don't, well those people probably don't and won't believe the truth about this industry anyway, until their favorite news anchor discusses it.  

Perhaps that is some of the reasoning behind TSW's latest avatar with the pulsating, in-your-face behemoth-sized bazookas.  I kind of fall in line with Castle's recent post on that one, i.e. (to paraphrase), I don't know which to believe -- the text or the mammary glands -- but if I am to make a choice, I'd have to go with the cleavage!

I think fornits can be what people are willing or able to make it be.  If those desiring more palatable language wish it to become that way, they should put in the requisite time and effort and research to make it that way.

[Froderik]

As I said, I think there are other sites that suit that purpose.  Fornits fills a very special niche that I don't want to lose.  It's the ONLY site that allows complete freedom of speech.  That means that we have to put up with material that may be offensive to us.  That's what I meant about the most vile speech being the most important to protect.

As always, that's just MHO.  If you're really that bothered by it, take it up with Ginger, but how many times have we gone round and round about this?

Otoh, BuzzKill could argue that her request for people to stop posting racial shit would fall under freedom of speech as well, which of course it does. Of course, you (or I, or anyone) could then choose to heed or ignore that advice depending on our inclination...