Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
Split from ASR: Private School or RTC
RobertBruce:
--- Quote ---The child may not be a happy camper his/her first few days there, but eventually they come to feel safe and find it becomes a place where they can talk about any issues they may have, get back on track. There couldn?t be a safer place for most of these kids and I believe kids cant begin to heal until they feel safe and this is the first step.
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There is absolutely no basis for this claim whatsoever. You cannot expect people to have real discussions with you if all you are going to do is spout off program propoganda.
--- Quote ---No, I am not. The treatment may be involuntary at first, sure, kids need a little push. How many kids say they don?t want to join the swim team or track. Some parents will goes as far as saying? You wont get a cell phone unless you join an extra curricular activity? I know this may seem abusive to some, but most kids end up enjoying it after they get exposed to it.
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Call up any licensed psychologist and they will all tell you the same thing; You cannot force anyone child or adult to accept or participate in therapy unless they are ready. It simply will not work, espically when threats are used to illicit participation.
Coercive therapy does not work and it is abusive.
--- Quote ---As far as the kids getting physically abused, at a TBS, this is an overwhelming minority and the perpetrators are dealt with quickly like they are when it happens in our local public school system and local programs.
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This is entirely untrue, but Id be interested in hearing the basis for your statement.
--- Quote ---You keep repeating that I dismiss people?s experiences, where did you read this? If you felt I did at any point, let me know and I will apologize. I listen to each person that speaks to me and I recognize their experience.
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By doubting the abuse that people claim occurs or even downplaying it you are dismissing their claims.
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Also back to the original topic, I wonder do you support the health department visiting resturants?
I didn?t see this as the original topic? But to answer your question, Yes, I do.
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Why? I'm sure they feel that all the food they serve is safe and everything is clean? Would they want to take time out of their day to cater to the health dept if they feel they are doing a good job? Why is it important?
TheWho:
--- Quote ---Call up any licensed psychologist and they will all tell you the same thing; You cannot force anyone child or adult to accept or participate in therapy unless they are ready. It simply will not work, espically when threats are used to illicit participation.
Coercive therapy does not work and it is abusive.
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Agreed, not continuously forced, no therapy will not work. You may have to force their hand a little to get them started. Once the child feels safe enough with the person/people around them they are able to start dealing with some of the issues that may be holding them back or sidetracking them.
Therapists are the ones that recommend many of these schools and they work side by side with the school therapists. I think this is important because if the program isn?t working there is an extra communication link which can help redirect the child?s treatment.
--- Quote --- By doubting the abuse that people claim occurs or even downplaying it you are dismissing their claims.
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I don?t believe I have doubted people?s stories nor down played them.
--- Quote ---Why? I'm sure they feel that all the food they serve is safe and everything is clean? Would they want to take time out of their day to cater to the health dept if they feel they are doing a good job? Why is it important?
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Good question?.. There was a time I remember when places were being closed down by the board of health left and right and anytime I went into a restaurant I would look for their license or rating (A,B,B- etc.) which would be on the wall. This would give me a sense that I wasn?t going to get poisoned/sick.
The owner of the place knew their food was safe but the public/ health department was mandating this as a requirement. Once they got it and it was a good rating they were happy to display it prominently on their wall.
RobertBruce:
--- Quote ---Agreed, not continuously forced, no therapy will not work. You may have to force their hand a little to get them started. Once the child feels safe enough with the person/people around them they are able to start dealing with some of the issues that may be holding them back or sidetracking them.
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and what if the child never feels ready? What if he never feels safe? The TBS's answer is to drop them into a lower peer group, how do you feel those kids should be dealt with?
--- Quote ---Therapists are the ones that recommend many of these schools and they work side by side with the school therapists. I think this is important because if the program isn?t working there is an extra communication link which can help redirect the child?s treatment.
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True, but it has been establsihed often times those same therapist have no clue about whats really happening inside.
--- Quote ---I don?t believe I have doubted people?s stories nor down played them.
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Sure you have, take a look:
--- Quote ---Do you think this can happen over and over again and not make the headline news? Fox news would love to feature this stuff, any news agency would (even if it were half true). But it is not, we know that because parents would shut these places down in a heart beat if they even used language they hear here on fornits against them!
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--- Quote ---Imagine what would happen if a kid got raped or abused on a Therapeutic boarding school or all places!! Talk about a story and headlines!! They have been operating for decades???.
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--- Quote ---After 2 decades there is enough "lack of incidences evidence" to indicate that many of these places are safe. Something would have surfaced, after 20 years, if there was a systemic problem.
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So then with that in mind my question to you remains. Why do you continue to dismiss and downplay the claims of abuse people make against these places?
--- Quote ---Good question?.. There was a time I remember when places were being closed down by the board of health left and right and anytime I went into a restaurant I would look for their license or rating (A,B,B- etc.) which would be on the wall. This would give me a sense that I wasn?t going to get poisoned/sick.
The owner of the place knew their food was safe but the public/ health department was mandating this as a requirement. Once they got it and it was a good rating they were happy to display it prominently n their wall.
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So again my question to you remains, why would resturants subject themselves to health inspectors if they already know they are doing a good job? Why is it important?
I'm also still waiting on an answer to this:
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As far as the kids getting physically abused, at a TBS, this is an overwhelming minority and the perpetrators are dealt with quickly like they are when it happens in our local public school system and local programs.
This is entirely untrue, but Id be interested in hearing the basis for your statement.
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TheWho:
--- Quote ---and what if the child never feels ready? What if he never feels safe? The TBS's answer is to drop them into a lower peer group, how do you feel those kids should be dealt with?
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If the child never feels ready, which happens, then the family, therapists and school need to get together and define further steps.
--- Quote --- So then with that in mind my question to you remains. Why do you continue to dismiss and downplay the claims of abuse people make against these places?
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You posted a few of my past quotes, but I don?t see how this is dismissing or downplay peoples claims they were abused.
--- Quote --- So again my question to you remains, why would resturants subject themselves to health inspectors if they already know they are doing a good job? Why is it important?
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Well, I think it is because they are forced to because if they don?t the Health department will put a lock on their door and a sign, which isn?t good for business.
--- Quote --- As far as the kids getting physically abused, at a TBS, this is an overwhelming minority and the perpetrators are dealt with quickly like they are when it happens in our local public school system and local programs.
This is entirely untrue, but Id be interested in hearing the basis for your statement.
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When a child is abused or a teacher hits a student this becomes a huge issue in the area I live in and heads start rolling even before there is any court time. If kids are getting abused we will hear about it.
Bob -- Do you have any data to add to the dataset? Do you want to move on to 2002- 2003?
RobertBruce:
--- Quote ---If the child never feels ready, which happens, then the family, therapists and school need to get together and define further steps.
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Such as?
--- Quote ---You posted a few of my past quotes, but I don?t see how this is dismissing or downplay peoples claims they were abused.
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Then you werent paying atttention. In the quotes you repeatedly claim the abuse either isnt occuring or isnt as prevalent as we make it out to be. I'm not sure how once can interpret your comments any other way but I'm more than willing to hear an alternative explination if youve got one. If not my orginal question remains.
Why do you continue to downplay and dismiss peoples claims about abuse in these places?
--- Quote ---Well, I think it is because they are forced to because if they don?t the Health department will put a lock on their door and a sign, which isn?t good for business.
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But why is it important? Why does the health inspector need to come at all?
--- Quote ---When a child is abused or a teacher hits a student this becomes a huge issue in the area I live in and heads start rolling even before there is any court time. If kids are getting abused we will hear about it.
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I see. So then is it your beliefe that if you did not hear about or see something occur it did not happen?
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