Author Topic: Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth  (Read 23382 times)

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Offline Michelle.

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« on: April 08, 2003, 04:13:00 AM »
Hello everyone,

I want to get the truth out there --

I spent some time in these programs. I was first at Brightway for intake, evaluation, etc. then was moved to Cross Creek Manor for the majority of my time in Utah. I was 16 years old then. It was quite awhile ago (1994) and now I'm 25. I am a student at New York University and have decided that it is time for someone to compile a factual research paper on Cross Creek, WWASP, and specialty boarding schools in general. I've been doing lots of research online and came across these boards. I'd love it if anyone -- especially former attendees, parents, etc, could let me know anything specific you feel comfortable sharing in terms of your personal experieneces. I am also wondering if anyone would be interested/willing to do an online interview with me or take a survey about your time in the programs.

I'm doing my best to start going at my research from an objective angle, but do have my own experiences to share and will do so with anyone that contacts me. (if you are interested) I just want to get facts and put forth an accurate picture of what these places are about, what goes on, etc.

I'll keep any sources confidential and total discretion is assured.

Also -- here is one more question:

I want to gain access to the Cross Creek Programs. I'd like to get inside and take a tour, etc. I am fairly certain no one is going to let me in for this, but I figure it's worth a shot to ask. I'm ready and willing to head to LaVerkin if the opportunity presents itself. If anyone has any ideas as to the best way to go about this, gain access, etc. I'd appreciate it.

Basically I just want to get the truth out there, and I'll do anything/be a part of anything that anyone else has going on to try and do the same.

Feel free to contact me for any reason.

Thanks for reading and hope to hear from some of you soon.

Best,

Michelle.
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Always do the right thing. It\'ll gratify some and astonish the rest.\"  ?Mark Twain

Offline Anonymous

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2003, 06:25:00 PM »
Michelle how would you sum up your time at Cross Creek?
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Offline Michelle.

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2003, 10:52:00 PM »
as I think I mentioned I was 16 when I was at cross creek.  I didn't  have a drug,alcohol, or abuse problem like a lot of people there.  I had run away from home because of some differences between my folks and I.  They sent me there because they felt I needed to be in a secure place.

Here's some of what I can recall:

At first I went to Brightway.  It was demoralizing, to say the least.  I felt like I was in jail and knew that I wouldn't move up and out until I "came to terms with my issues."  Once I did and said I knew I needed to make changes they sent me to CCM.  It was the scariest place I had ever been.  I moved right on into the basement and was determined not to make waves.  I was the quiet kid who didn't cause trouble or do anything wrong.  Girls walked around like zombies.  My roomates warned me about specifc girls to avoid.  My second night there a fight broke out in the hallway and I saw one of the girls I had been warned about getting restrained for the first time.  I was terrified.  I started noticing that almost everyone used the same kind of speach (ie:"my experience of you is______," etc.)  It seemed like everyone was programmed.  Some of the girls were nice, I made a few friends, and thought I was learning how to navigate my way through.  Then one night -- in the middle of the night -- staff came into my room with a flashlight, woke my up by sticking it in my face, roughly pulled me off of the top bunk, put my wrists in a lock (which was not necesary since I never resisted or would have had they just asked me to get up).  I was horrified and confused being woken up this way.  I kept asking what was happening and no one would answer me except to make snide remarks like, "you know damn well," et al.  I was taken down the hall to the isolation rooms.  I was left in there all night with no blankets -- just the mattress on the floor and the lights on.  The next day I was moved down to the rec center and put in a room alone all day.  Finally I was told what was happening . . .
some girls had told staff that I had "run plans," which was ridiculous, because I was smat enough to know there was no way out and knew that if I cooperated my parents would let me come home.I was told to write a minimum of 5,000 words on why I would not run.  I did it all in one sitting.  Staff belived that I didn't have plans to run and after another two nights in isolation I was let out.
Girls would often "nark off" other girls in order to curry favor with staff, even making things up to look better.  It was frightening because you never knew what might happen.
Later I was back in the good graces of the staff and was going to be moved upstairs.  I returned home from the rec center that night to be dragged into iso. again.  This time I had no idea why.  It turns out that Glenn Roach went into my room to take my stuff upstairs and found gym shoes in my bag of unused clothing.  Her husband Steve yelled at me, called me a cheat and a liar, etc.  I had no idea the shoes were there -- when I came in from Brightway they missed them when they went through my stuff and now I was again being acused of having shoes because I planned to run.  Finally I was able to get out of iso., explain myself, my parents were called, etc.  Then I was moved upstairs.
Things were better there -- but memories include being pushed and poked in the chest on three ocassions by staff.
Mainly I remember witnessing bad things happening to other girls left and right.  The mentality that you had to adopt and verbiage that you were required to speak in bordered on cult-like.  Guilt was prevalent and interwoven throughout therapy, group time, and daily activity in general.
School was a joke -- you sat there all afternoon doing modules out of work books with the radio on some easy listening St.George radio station.  There was nothing that was simillar to a real classroom setting.  
Over all my personal experineces there weren't as awful as some and there were some nice girls and staff, but it isn't what they present to parents, kids are abused physically and verbally, their rights are taken away, and you're made to feel very badly.  
I could go on in more detail, but this post is already pretty long for now.

Thanks for reading.  Let me know if you have any questions or would like to know more.

Also, keep in mind this was back in 1994 and I have not been there since then.

Best,

Michelle.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Always do the right thing. It\'ll gratify some and astonish the rest.\"  ?Mark Twain

Offline Michelle.

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2003, 04:06:00 AM »
One more question --

does anyone know where to look to find a list of what states allow children to be detained against their will, or where to look in state law code (in my favorite state Utah, for example)for this sort of info.  I know that not every state allows for this.  The great state of Washington, my home state, doesn't allow it, but I know that OR, ID, UT, MT and obviously a host of others do.  I'm looking for resources to help clarify the very real legal question of, "how can they do this?" that so many ask.

If you have any advice on where to look, etc. please post it or let me know.

Thanks so much!

Best,

Michelle.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Always do the right thing. It\'ll gratify some and astonish the rest.\"  ?Mark Twain

Offline anon

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2003, 11:43:00 AM »
They can do it because they don't mind ignoring such laws. Altho - I'd assume if there are states where a minor can't be held aginst their will they're careful to not set up shop in that state. However, I've been informed there is a Federal law which states, (I'll be paraphrasing), anyone held in such a place as these programs, has the right to speak with outside authorities to report abuse and or neglect - and This law is most certinly ignored by WWASP and others of this ilk.
Since your doing some reserch - see if you can find the actual statute.
I'd sure like a copy of it.
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Offline FaceKhan

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2003, 07:53:00 PM »
Its also illegal in all states to send a kid across state lines for "treatment" or services that he could obtain in-state.

Interstate Compact on the Placement of children requires that both states approve the placement and be notified in advance. Its also illegal to send your kid across state lines to live with a non-relative unless the previous requirment was met.
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All of the darkness of the world cannot put out the light of one small candle.\"

Offline anon

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2003, 10:34:00 PM »
I was under the impression those laws only pretained to childern in state care.
The state can't send them out of state for care they can get in state. I believe its mostly a cost saving measure, and seldom actually helps the child in need of services. I don't know that it pretains to what parents do, in a private pay situation, at all.
I could be mistaken, but that was my understanding of it.
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Offline Anonymous

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2003, 11:53:00 PM »
Anasazi Wilderness (Arizona) enforces the Interstate Compact so Face Khan must be on to something.  See their website for details about their admissions policies and procedures.

 :cool:
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Offline Michelle.

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2003, 05:34:00 AM »
Thanks for the info.  I saw on the anasazi website that they require parents get a Interstate Compact certificate.  At least they're attempting to follow the rules.  WWASP could care less.  I've spoken with the fine folks at CCM on the premise of wanting to send a child there.  All they want is a quick phone interview, assurance that you can pay, and then they'll be more than happy to get things going.  They "strongly recommed" that you use Teen Escort Services to get your kid there and told me that the law says they have 24hrs to get your child from the place of pick up to the facility while holding them against their will.  I'm going out for a visit within the next month to check it out.  I'm curious/scared to see how it's changed/grown since I was there, and to keep my eyes open, ask questions, etc.  
I'm still looking for exact verbaige/statues on which states allow this kind of imprisonment of children and which don't.  I seem to find everything but that.


Michelle
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Always do the right thing. It\'ll gratify some and astonish the rest.\"  ?Mark Twain

Offline Deborah

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2003, 04:00:00 PM »
ICPC pertains to anyone sending a child across state lines for care or adoption. Programs hate this law. It requires time and they like to strike while the iron's hot.
Good luck getting anyone to enforce it. When my ex incarcerated our son out of state I tried. Texas deferred to Ga. Ga said the facility was exempt. Tx would not act.  The stoolies at the state didn't even know what I was referring to. I sent them detailed information and they still did nothing. Letters to politicians didn't get a response.
The ONLY facilities that are exempt are traditional boarding schools that DO NOT include any kind of therapy or behavior modification.
The law and specifics are on-line for anyone to read.
There is also a copy of a letter to ICPC at Stuggling Teens (search ICPC-link not handy) in which someone wrote to ICPC for clarification. They said indeed Wilderness and TBS were NOT exempt from ICPC.
The Industry would like to change this law. Those of us who are actively involved need to watch closely for this and speak out if/when the time comes.
Deborah
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2003, 09:20:00 PM »
kids who are 18 (legal age of majority) should look into filing a lawsuit against the state(s) which failed to protect their rights under the provisions of the Interstate Compact.  See Milonas v. Williams.  

 :cool:
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Offline Deborah

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2003, 11:11:00 PM »
http://www.youthlawcenter.com/htm/ylc_omvw.htm

In Milonas v. Williams, staff attorneys challenged conditions at a secure residential facility in Provo. After a four-week trial, the federal court permanently enjoined the owners of the school from using a lie detector as part of the "therapy" program, censoring students' mail, locking students up in tiny isolation cells for long periods of time, and using excessive physical force on students, including the common practice of grabbing students' hair and pulling backward, known as the "hair dance." The court's decision is particularly noteworthy inasmuch as it is the first federal ruling in the nation holding that children in "private" facilities may claim the protection of the federal Civil Rights Act in seeking relief from harmful institutional practices. The school's owners appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, which unanimously rejected their arguments and affirmed the District Court's ruling. The owners then appealed to the United States Supreme Court, which also rejected their arguments.
***************

I'm confused. The first article I found stated that this took place in Nevada. I then found a link that stated Provo, Utah.
Anyone able to clear this up?


[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2003-04-11 20:17 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2003, 12:13:00 AM »
One of the defendants was an adjudicated youth from Nevada placed at Provo Canyon. The other was a private-pay placement. Here is a link that details the case - note the director of the Interstate Compact was also named in the complaint....

http://njda.msu.edu/Milonas%20vs%20Williams.doc

Also note the distinction "color of state" (meaning federal funds were being used to pay for the so-called treatment ... ergo FEDERAL VIOLATIONS).  Private programs who accept funding from Medicare would meet the criteria for COLOR OF STATE. Ditto adjudicated youth.

 :cool:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2003, 12:16:00 AM »
Make that one of the "plaintiffs" (not defendants)  ... sorry about that.
 :cool:
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Offline FaceKhan

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2003, 01:55:00 AM »
Aah well its good to know its illegal what these places do in all. Of course that doesn't seem to be stopping them. I mean technically speaking if the ICPC was enforced it would shut down the entire industry except for a handful of programs like Anasazi which don't mind following the law.

FYI:  Anasazi is a long-running wilderness program that has a pretty good reputation considering the industry it is in. I still don't consider it legitimate therapy but unlike the vast majority of these programs, I don't believe the operators should be hauled out in the middle of the night and shot for torturing teens. If a parent is absolutely set on sending their kid to one of these things it is probably a safe bet but I think there may have been a death there recently if memory serves.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
All of the darkness of the world cannot put out the light of one small candle.\"