Author Topic: Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth  (Read 23375 times)

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Offline Janet

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2003, 02:28:00 AM »
Unfortunately parents can send or take their minor child anywhere to any program they pay for.  The Interstate Compact deals only with children under federal, state, or local government control not those under parental control.  It was interesting reading some of the legalese of the above mentioned case.  The kids didn't get any money but their lawyers were paid.

People trying to sue WWASP have had to go to the Utah district federal court and have not been very successful.  However, the judge in the Virginia court was not kind to the father who sent his 12 year old son to Tranquility Bay.
It seems to me that you have to get out of the WWASP area of control.
 
I'm interested in WWASP because a now ex-friend sent her 17 year very timid daughter to CCM.  The girl was kept there until she was nearly 19 and finished the 'program'.  But was she allowed to go home and restart her life?  Nooooh, she was made to live with her therapist in Utah and to go to Dixie College.  Was this girl into drugs?  I doubt it.  She did drink some alcohol, ran away from home once, and was probably having sex with her boyfriend.  (As far as sex was concerned, her older brother and sisters did that too at 17.)  The parents had good reason to be angry and to punish her, but CCM was way over the line. I told the woman that she was breaking the law because her daughter was an adult, and that even when she was a minor she was entitled to privacy, free speech, and a social life.  The mother told me that there would be dances and parties with boys at CCM.  Is that true Michelle? :lol:  

I told this ex-friend that if she were my mother I would never forgive her.  Probably the only way to get to WWASP is by the back door.  Have some kid sue his parents for hiring someone to brutalize them.  This would have to be done in a court near the kid's home.  If enough cases are won, perhaps there would be a precident for the parents to sue WWASP because many parents are thoroughly deceived by WWASP.  I just don't think kids are that mean spirited to do that to their parents.

By the way Oregon does not allow lock-up schools for minors.  There is, of course juvenile detention halls.  Mt Batchelor Academy is a controversial school but kids can walk away from it and not return.

Michelle, from what my friend told me and from what little I could find on the net, it seems that girls arrived at CCM very late in the day.  Did girls arrive at all different times?
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Offline Michelle.

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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2003, 02:53:00 AM »
Janet,

Wow, how did your ex-friend manage to secure her daughter at CCM until she was 19? Or was the daughter just so warped by then that she believed she needed to stay on and finish The Program?  That is really, really sad.  I can't imagine anything worse than getting out and then having to stay in southern Utah, or thinking that you are so screwed up that you needed to.  

When I went to CCM there were certainly no parties or dances with boys -- there was no nearby boys facility back then, but now I doubt they have any contact with them at all.  There was nothing that resembled normal social functions of any kind while I was at CCM.

A lot of times girls did arrive late in the day.  I was driven there from Brightway in St. George at night.  I can remember the car ride there and thinking that I wished I could disappear into the darkness and knowing it was the last time I would see the outside world for awhile, save for those Dr.'s visits in Hurricane.  Sometimes girls would be dragged in when we were still at the rec center -- I recall one time when a girl who has apparently been at CCM before was brought in, she was drunk or on something and resisting.  We were all sitting around in groups in the large room/gym/whatever the hell it was.  I was coloring in a kids colorbook (what I did to keep from going insane there) and all of a sudden the door opens and this girl is literally dragged down the stairway in restraints.  Yes, she was resisting, but I remember thinking -- why did they have to treat her that way -- VERY roughly, saying degrading things, and bringing her in and humiliating her in front of everyone?  It was one of those things that was supposed to scare us and make us see what would happenif we messed up when we got out, etc.  It was a horrible thing to have to see and it's just one of the many things I'd blocked out, but obviously not forgotten about until you asked about girls coming in at night.  I think maybe people usually arrive late so you don't really know where you are, but that could be speculation.  Girls were came at all different times, but I do remember many late ariivals where there would be a new girl in the hall way for roll call at night.

Interesting what you said about Oregon -- right before my southern Utah experience my folks sent me to Pioneer Trails Adolescent Facility in Gresham, OR. right outside of Portland.  We are from Seattle, so it was close.  It was a lock up.  I hated it, and begged to come home and they let me out very quickly.  But, when I looked for it online it seems to no longer exist.  I assumed you could have lock ups there because of that, but it's good to know that I may have been wrong.

I was probably a lot like your friend's daughter -- I was quiet, sometimes timid and shy.  I had a few behaviour problems and ran away once when I turned 16.  I had never done drugs and didn't smoke or drink like so many of the girls.  My folks and I mainly disagreed on my choices of friends and the use of my time.  The running away was what pushed them to this because they were scared.  I, unlike the girl you mentioned, was able to get out of CCM in a relatively short period of time in comparison.  My time there was damaging and I cannpt imagine what two years would have done.

That place seems to tear down, reprogram, and strip girls of their identity.  It makes girls feel weaker and more damaged then they really are.  Like if you don't work the program there is no help for you.  It is really a sick thing.  I can see how extreme behaviour modification is necessary in some cases, but not that kind of modification.  The main thing is that these places are majorly misrepresented to parents.  They aren't boarding schools with mixers and dances -- they are prison/institutions that aren't appropriate for the average "troubled teen."

Michelle.
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Always do the right thing. It\'ll gratify some and astonish the rest.\"  ?Mark Twain

Offline FaceKhan

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2003, 03:11:00 AM »
I could of course be wrong but my understanding the ICPC was that it did apply to parents. Why would Anasazi insist on it if it did not since I don't think they take state money being a religious organization.

I would speculate that there have been many cases where people were held beyond the age of majority in these places. WWASP is a cult like straight so I doubt they have any problem forcing someone to stay there even if they had every legal right to just walk out. In some of those places they are quite far from anything else so  at the minimum a legal adult who wants to leave has zero money no one they can call  and just the clothes on their back so what are they to do?
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Offline Michelle.

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2003, 03:17:00 AM »
Good point -- if someone has no resources and has been so isolated for so long they are probably scared to be out in the real world.  I do remember that there was one 18 year old who was still at CCM when I was there and had been in since she was 14.  She stayed because she wanted to, but from what I understood she could have left had she wanted to.  I guess I just thought of being 18 as the magic number -- so many girls talked of wanting to be 18 to be away from the threat of the lock up.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Always do the right thing. It\'ll gratify some and astonish the rest.\"  ?Mark Twain

Offline Anonymous

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2003, 04:19:00 AM »
check out this website for more info on Provo.  Note reference to senior staff named Litchfield and on the webpage STAFF, a guy named Karr F --
(Farnsworth?)  Aren't these the same names seen associated with WWASP in news articles?

http://papamugz.tripod.com/page8.html
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2003, 04:39:00 AM »
here's the url to the main page. Check out the links to other websites too.

http://papamugz.tripod.com
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Offline Michelle.

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2003, 04:45:00 AM »
Thanks for the links!
And yes, Litchfield = WWASP, so although PCS isn't listed on their site as one of their "schools", it looks as if they have their hands in everything.  Karr Farnsworth has been heavily associated with WWASP almost since their beginning.  He has held about a million different positions.  They seem to move people around all the time, but the names are always the same.
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Always do the right thing. It\'ll gratify some and astonish the rest.\"  ?Mark Twain

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2003, 05:09:00 AM »
fixateen.com  registered to roger litchfield

teenatrisk.com registered to narvin litchfield

not sure if these litchfields are related to each other but thought you might want to check it out.  Good luck.

teen5000.net or teen5000.com registered to karr farnsworth.

All in Utah
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2003, 11:53:00 AM »
The compact DOES apply to parents unless they are sending the teen to another relative or to a traditional boarding school. See below.

http://icpc.aphsa.org/documents/Regulations1.htm
6. (a) Pursuant to Article VIII (a), this Compact does not apply to the sending or bringing of a child into a receiving state by the child's parent, stepparent, grandparent, adult brother or sister, adult uncle or aunt, or the child's guardian and leaving the child WITH ANY SUCH RELATIVE or NON-AGENCY GUARDIAN in the receiving state, provided that such person who brings, sends, or causes a child to be sent or brought to a receiving state is a person whose full legal right to plan for the child: (1) has been established by law at a time prior to initiation of the placement arrangement, and (2) has not been voluntarily terminated, or diminished or severed by the action or order of any court.

http://icpc.aphsa.org/documents/Guidebook_2002.pdf
Children placed out of state need to be assured of the same protections and services that would be provided if they remained in their home states. They must also be assured of a return to their original jurisdictions should placements prove not to be in their best interests or should the need for out-of-state services cease.

TYPES OF PLACEMENTS COVERED
The Compact applies to four types of situations in which children may be sent to other states:
? Placement preliminary to an adoption.
? Placements into foster care, including foster homes, group homes, RESIDENTIAL
TREATMENT FACILITIES, and institutions.
? Placements with parents and relatives when a parent or relative is not making the placement.
? Placements of adjudicated delinquents in institutions in other states.

1. In determining whether the sending or bringing of a child to another state is exempt from the provisions of the Interstate Compact on the Placement of Children by reason of the exemption for various classes of institutions in Article II (d), the following concepts and terms shall have the following meanings:
(a) ?Primarily educational institution? means an institution which operates one or more
programs that can be offered in satisfaction of compulsory school attendance laws, in which the PRIMARY PURPOSE of accepting children is to meet their EDUCATIONAL NEEDS; and which DOES NOT DO one or more of the following:
(1) accept responsibility for children during the entire year;
(2) provide or hold itself out as providing child care constituting nurture sufficient to
substitute for parental supervision and control or foster care;
(3) provide any other services to children, except for those customarily regarded as
extracurricular or cocurricular school activities, pupil support services, and those services necessary to make it possible for the children to be maintained on a residential basis in the aforementioned school program or programs.

5. The type of license, if any, held by an institution is evidence of its character, but DOES NOT determine the need for compliance with ICPC. Whether an institution is either generally exempt from the need to comply with the Interstate Compact on the Placement of Children or exempt in a particular instance is to be determined by the SERVICES IT ACTUALLY PROVIDES or offers to provide. In making any such determinations, the criteria set forth in this regulation shall be applied.
****************************

The TBS my son attended listed with their state as a Boarding School. It appears to me that they, and others are attempting to catorgorize themselves as Traditional Boarding Schools with an "Emotional Growth Cirriculm".

[BTW, Even if they were classified as such, this would not cause them to be exempt from ICPC because they are offering more than standard extracurricular activities, administer behavior mod, and care for teens year round.]

This $5K/mo facility bragged about being a college prep facility and their accreditation with SACS. In fact, my son spent 20 mo there and was 5 credits behind his peers when he returned home. He was an A/B student prior.

Ways to ensure that the compact is enforced: States require Ed Cons and other agencies who refer or send teens to comply.
Officials require all programs in their state to inform parents of ICPC procedures.

The Ed Con who refered my son never met him, refered to an unlicensed facility, did not have the state required license to refer out of state, and it was questionable if she violated the ICPC because she did not personally take him to Ga(his father did).

Again, the state didn't have a clue how to proceed with this. Last I knew the Tx Ed
Con was under investigation by CPS. The TBS in Ga was  being investigated for license violations. Unless they received a wavier to operate as an "experimental program", they were to be classified as a Residential Care Facility and subject to regs. Their Wilderness program was required to be licensed as such right away. I requested to be notified of each state's decisions in these matters but wasn't. I haven't followed up.
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2003, 12:18:00 PM »
Face,
In terms of Anasazi, the following is posted at Struggling Teens under Current News:

ANASAZI FOUNDATION
(February 13, 2003)

At the request of attorneys on both sides of the case regarding Anasazi, all press has been temporarily removed from this site until the case has been settled.
******************************

Perhaps it is something minor that doesn't involve the abuse of a teen. Who knows?
Since Anasazi is a "non-profit" organization, there BOD may require them to be in compliance with ICPC.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline FaceKhan

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2003, 01:58:00 PM »
I think there may have been a death there recently and there is a wrongful death suit pending.

Still the reason I said those things is mainly from the policies they claim to abide by. For example they do not allow "escort services" to bring the teen there which I just see as a good sign.

Once again its not therapy and I don't believe it works, but its sorta like pointing a gun on your kid and pulling the trigger knowing that the guy who loaded it knows the difference between a blank and a bullet whereas with WWASP and many others could not care less whether they loaded it with a blank or a bullet they get their money either way.

Maybe I am being too generous but at least there are a few programs that can be looked at as not just a bunch of megalomaniacs who torture kids for fun and profit. At least I hope there are. It will be a lot easier to get the enforcement authorities to clean up this industry than it will be to get the congress to turn down all those donations and legislate it out of existence.
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All of the darkness of the world cannot put out the light of one small candle.\"

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2003, 02:04:00 PM »
This is about a doctor in private practice in Arizona.  The teen advocates website has some links to information about the case/investigation.
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Offline Janet

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« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2003, 01:02:00 AM »
Deborah, that appears to apply to parents who do not have full custody of the child.  WWASP has shown little regard for making sure they have the approval of both custodial parents.
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oriahkitty

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2003, 07:09:00 PM »
Janet,
It's not real clear to me what you're refering to.
If you are refering to ICPC, read the Articles at the links I provided and post the rule which you believe states that ICPC applies only to non-custodial parents.

Deborah
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2003, 08:37:00 PM »
Deborah, unfortunately in our democracy there are loopholes galore.  This country has a rule that any law in one state that does not contradict something in the U.S. Constitution has to be respected by all the other states.  If one state allows you to do something that you cannot do in the other states you can leave your state to go to that state.  Parents with full custody of a MINOR child can send the child anywhere without getting permission from the ICPC. No law can be made to stop you from taking your own child across state lines or outside the country if the child had a passport. One law that state lawmakers are trying to pass is to make escort services unlawful.  These schools do not like this law and work hard to stop the passing of such a law.  Now if the school violates it's own state's laws, (and I doubt that any state says it is okay to abuse children), the ICPC MIGHT be able to step in.  
Reading what TBS cannot do has loopholes that from what I know about CCM, WWASP covers.  For instance, they may have parents come and visit the child before a year is up to eliminate the rule which states they cannot be responsible for the child for a full year.  #3 which states the services they can provide, the "pupil support services" can be left open to a lot of interpetation.  I am not a lawyer but I worked with medical insurance contracts so I know how people can read into long convoluted statements, and how they can elaborate on short undefined statements.  One of the major WWASP players is a lawyer and he makes sure they meet absolutely minimum requirements, including licensing.
  BTW, California has one of the strongest laws about lock up schools, even though CEDU schools have been in California.  That's why so many parents from California send their children out of the state or country to WWASP schools.  The District Attorney for Alameda County took the Van Blarigans(sp?) to an Oakland, California court for denying their 17 year old son his civil rights by sending him to Tranquility Bay.  The judge ruled that since he was a minor they could send him to TB.  From what I  read the Van Blarigans were fundalmentalist Christians, and felt that their son was not Christian enough.  Whatever the reason it was not because he was a child in trouble!  If the DA for Alameda County can't keep a kid out of a WWASP school, the ICPC can't.
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