Webmaster States God Has No Place On Fornits

[RobertBruce]

We've established huh?  

Let's take a look at the examples you provided:

farms

Farmer recieve subsidies not to grow certian crops or not to grow them above a set limit. Should they refuse to adhere to these policies they are no longer eligible for federal funding.

airlines

Airlines must follow guidelines set forth by the FAA. Further airline employees are subject to federal ruling. I would assume you are old enough to recall when President Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers for refusing to return to work during a strike? On top of that in the event of an accident the airlines are subject to the findings of the NTSB, again a govt agency.

oil companies

As already established by me the oil companies are subject to the EPA. They are also restricted by the govt as to where they can drill for oil. I suggest you ask an Alaskan or Floridian for any more information on that point.

Now again youre claiming that we've established that HLA is not subject to any govt oversight, yet this is simply not the case. Again you know this. According to the ORS any school private or otherwise that list itself as a special purpose is required to adhere to state oversight. Now Hla claimed to be a traditional boarding school with its primary focus being on education. I doubt even you could argue that is the case, anyone who has been there for longer than five mins knows the primary purpose at hla is and always has been therapy. Furthermore hla can claim it is not a RTC all it wants, yet it somehow meets the criteria, again they were not forthright with the state.  On top of all that no one has claimed hla is a public school. I'm also still waiting to hear from why if hla is such a great place they would feel the need to resist oversight.

Also riddle me this, why if all your saying is true, is hla being investigated by so many agencies concerning licensure?

[Anonymous]

Deborah,

Gald you could join us.  According to the ORS website the following institutions are exempt:

? Any bona fide boarding school whose primary purpose of admission is education, provided that such facility in order to claim exemption shall operate under a published academic educational curriculum which meets the requirements of the State Department of Education, shall have classroom facilities which are not used for residential living, shall not have been granted nor have assumed legal custody of children attending the facility, and shall not provide service planning and casework services as described in the licensing rules.

HLA's primary purpose is to provide education to students who have struggled in traditional settings.  They have a curriculum which meets State Department of Education Standards which is why they present diplomas.  Students do not reside in the classroom.  HLA does not assume legal custody of the students.  HLA counselors do not provide casework services.
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[RobertBruce]

Again you can claim this all you like but no one who is familiar with the workings of hla would ever claim that the primary purpose is education.

Stamp your feet and insist all you want it changes nothing. Hence why hla is under the hot lamp so much right now.

[Anonymous]

If it is true that HLA is primarily a treatment facility of some type answer the following questions.

Why are students refered by Educational Consultants rather than psychologists, psychologists, M.D.'s, social workers, etc?

Are you assuming that parents primary motivation for sending students to HLA is primarily for treatment rather than education?
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[RobertBruce]

A. Students are sent there by referal of a psychologist/psychatrist, I dont know about social workers but parole officers are often involved.

B. Even though its rude I'm going to answer your question with a question. If the primary purpose of hla is education why is every student ordered to undergo a psychological evaluation either prior to arrival or shortly thereafter? Further why is every student diagnosed with ODD regardless of the results of aforementioned evaluation?

[Deborah]

Robert,

I apologize for neglecting your other comments.  I did not see any particular questions.  We seem to have established that there are no state or federal regulatory agencies which can be identified that HLA, as a private organization, must adhere to.  Businesses from farms, airlines, and oil companies have received federal funds and subsidies yet remain privately owned and opperated.  So I am unsure that HLA is some how now considered a public school.  HLA is a boarding school not an RTC.

Why the name change, Hunter?

(b) "Child caring institution" means any institution, society, agency, or facility, whether incorporated or not, which either primarily or incidentally provides full-time care for children under 17 years of age outside of their own homes, subject to such exceptions as may be provided in rules and regulations of the Board of Human Resources**. For purposes of these rules, a child caring institution means any institution, society, agency, or facility that provides such care to six or more children.*

No person, partnership, association, corporation or entity shall operate a child caring institution in the state without first obtaining a license to operate the institution by demonstrating compliance with the necessary requirements set forth in these rules. Institutions operated as a part of a local church ministry or religious nonprofit school or a nonprofit religious charitable organization may request to be commissioned in lieu of
licensed. All provisions of these rules shall apply to institutions that request to be commissioned, and for the purposes of these rules, the term license shall have the same meaning as commission.*

Exempt:
1. Child welfare agencies and other facilities and institutions wherein children and youths are detained which are operated by any department or agency of state, county, or municipal government.*
2. Any bona fide boarding school whose primary purpose of admission is education, provided that such facility in order to claim exemption shall operate under a published academic educational curriculum which meets the requirements of the State Department of Education, shall have classroom facilities which are not used for residential living, shall not have been granted nor have assumed legal custody of children attending the
facility, and shall not provide service planning and casework services as described in these rules.*
3. Facilities owned and operated by the state or federal government.*
4. Temporary recreational facilities and programs which limit residency to no more than three months, such as summer camps.*
~~

Are you arguing that HLA is not a Child Caring Institution?
Have you reviewed the regulations?
I'm trying to understand why you wouldn't want your child to have the minimal protection that state regs provides.
What kind of parent would advocate for no state oversight to keep costs down?
Did you send your child to HLA for the stellar academic program only? Would you pay $6000/month for your child to be educated by HLA for 18 months?
Would you pay $6000 a month if there was no "therapy"?
Did you deduct any of the "tuition" as a medical expense?
Or write off trips to visit your "disabled" child on your 1040?
Time to get off the fence. Can't have it both ways.

[Deborah]

If it is true that HLA is primarily a treatment facility of some type answer the following questions.

Why are students refered by Educational Consultants rather than psychologists, psychologists, M.D.'s, social workers, etc?

Are you assuming that parents primary motivation for sending students to HLA is primarily for treatment rather than education?

Kids are refered by shrinks and psychologists, including the owner. Last demographic sheet I saw said 60some percent were referred by Ed Cons.
Not sure who refers the court appointed kids. Do you know?
As I asked in my previous post- did you send your kid to HLA for an 18 month stellar academic program?
Why only 18 months?
Why wouldn't you leave your child there for the academic program until they graduate high school?
What kind of 'school' charges $6000 per month and doesn't even have certified teachers or a science lab.

[RobertBruce]

I guess he got sleepy and went to bed.

Or maybe there were just one too many questions for him to answer.

I guess we'll see whatever stooge they send out next.

[Anonymous]

I guess he got sleepy and went to bed.

Or maybe there were just one too many questions for him to answer.

I guess we'll see whatever stooge they send out next.

He probably just dozed off..... things are just rather boring in Arkansas this time of year.

[Anonymous]

Let us begin again.  Deborah, I am sure that many parents that consider placing their child anywhere for education or for care may consider the questions you raise.  State or federal regulation, certification, etc.  As you stated, you don't understand why a parent would not want these things.  I would state that this is why there are other options since these things are obviously important to you.

The issue is not what a consumer desires in a product but what the provider is required by law to provide.  Consumers in our society have multiple options regarding services.  Part of being a consumer is finding the right services at the right price for each individual.  

The ORS states clearly that as a boarding school HLA is exempt.  You may not like this but this is the fact.  You may prefer to view HLA as a RTC rather than a boarding school.  You may prefer to see America as a rising facist state; you may prefer to believe the world would be better if we could all just get stoned.  You are entitled to your opinions.  Just recognize that your arguments are designed to pressure a service provider to produce a product you desire but the provider is under no obligation to provide.
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[Anonymous]

The ORS states clearly that as a boarding school HLA is exempt.

The only reason HLA was exempt is because HLA told ORS their emphasis was on academics, not therapy. All of HLA's advertising states they are a Therapeutic Boarding School. So which one is it: Academic or Therapeutic?

[Anonymous]

Let us begin again.  Deborah, I am sure that many parents that consider placing their child anywhere for education or for care may consider the questions you raise.  State or federal regulation, certification, etc.  As you stated, you don't understand why a parent would not want these things.  I would state that this is why there are other options since these things are obviously important to you.

The issue is not what a consumer desires in a product but what the provider is required by law to provide.  Consumers in our society have multiple options regarding services.  Part of being a consumer is finding the right services at the right price for each individual.  

The ORS states clearly that as a boarding school HLA is exempt.  You may not like this but this is the fact.  You may prefer to view HLA as a RTC rather than a boarding school.  You may prefer to see America as a rising facist state; you may prefer to believe the world would be better if we could all just get stoned.  You are entitled to your opinions.  Just recognize that your arguments are designed to pressure a service provider to produce a product you desire but the provider is under no obligation to provide.

Let me get this straight: HLA is a therapeutic boarding school, but is under no obligation to provide therapy? Please explain.

[Anonymous]

The Archangels Michael and Raphael attempted to bring the word of God to this unholy place but have been banished by the unholy webmaster.  God has no place here and here forth will banish those who continue to do this vile work from the kingdom of heaven.

Dear God:

Why didn't you save the school children at ?. ..

Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96
Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97
Pearl , Mississippi 10/1/97
West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97
Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97
Jonesboro , Arkansas 3/24/98
Edinboro , Pennsylvania 4/24/98
Fayetteville , Tennessee 5/19/98
Springfield , Oregon 5/21/98
Richmond , Virginia 6/15/98
Littleton , Colorado 4/20/99
Taber , Alberta , Canada 5/28/99
Conyers , Georgia 5/20/99
Deming , New Mexico 11/19/99
Fort Gibson , Oklahoma 12/6/99
Santee , California 3/ 5/01 and
El Cajon , California 3/22/01?

Sincerely,
Concerned Student

Reply:

Dear Concerned Student:
I am not allowed in schools.
Sincerely,
God

How did this get started?...

Let's see,
I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
she didn't want any prayer in our schools.
And we said, OK.

Then, someone said you better not

read the Bible in school,
the Bible that says
"thou shalt not kill,
thou shalt not steal,
and love your neighbors as yourself,"
And we said, OK...

Dr. Benjamin Spock said
we shouldn't spank our children
when they misbehaved
because their little personalities
would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.
And we said,
an expert should know what he's talking about
so we won't spank them anymore..

Then someone said
teachers and principals better not
discipline our children when they misbehave.
And the school administrators said
no faculty member in this school
better touch a student when they misbehave
because we don't want any bad publicity,
and we surely don't want to be sued.
And we accepted their reasoning...

Then someone said,
let's let our daughters have abortions if they want,
and they won't even have to tell their parents.
And we said, that's a grand idea...

Then some wise school board member said,
since boys will be boys
and they're going to do it anyway,
let's give our sons all the condoms they want,
so they can have all the fun they desire,
and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.
And we said, that's another great idea...

Then some of our top elected officials said
it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.
And we said,
it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President,
does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good....

And someone else took that appreciation a step further
and published pictures of nude children
and then stepped further still by
making them available on the Internet.
And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....

And the entertainment industry said,
let's make TV shows and movies that promote
profanity, violence and illicit sex...
And let's record music that encourages
rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...
And we said,
it's just entertainment
and it has no adverse effect
and nobody takes it seriously anyway,
so go right ahead.

Now we're asking ourselves
why our children have no conscience,
why they don't know right from wrong,
and why it doesn't bother them to
kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

Undoubtedly,
if we thought about it long and hard enough,
we could figure it out.
I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...
"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"

Dear God,

Where is the Chapel we've waited so many years for and have donated so much money towards? It might be easier for us to embrace God if we had that Chapel.

[Anonymous]

I would refer you to the very first post in this string.  You seem to believe that a school should provide education without any behavioral altercation at all.  This is in line with the political logic that has created much of the current problem.  Schools should not discipline children or limit thier freedom in any way.  So any school that does could not be primarily educational but must be primarily therapeutic.  Of course if a school provides structure and discipline it must be corrupt and sinister.  Maybe you should appeal to the supreme court for a final ruling of seperation of education and behavioral modification.
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[Anonymous]

I would refer you to the very first post in this string.  You seem to believe that a school should provide education without any behavioral altercation at all.  This is in line with the political logic that has created much of the current problem.  Schools should not discipline children or limit thier freedom in any way.  So any school that does could not be primarily educational but must be primarily therapeutic.  Of course if a school provides structure and discipline it must be corrupt and sinister.  Maybe you should appeal to the supreme court for a final ruling of seperation of education and behavioral modification.

No, we believe they should provide THERAPY not "behavioral altercation". Take some time to read through all of the topics and you will find this is the case.