Webmaster States God Has No Place On Fornits

[Anonymous]

Authorities appropriate to who?

Student deemed inappropriate by who?

Teachers and Counselors deemed appropriate by who?

Maybe Willie Nelson and Tommy Chong are available to come teach and counsel children in accordance with the values of Fornits.

Authorities deemed appropriate to who?  To the State.

Students deemed appropriate to who?  To HLA.  
HLA claims not to take violent or seriously disturbed children.  You know for a fact that is not true.  You know that people are looked down upon by Dr. Buccellato if they claim a student is innapropriate.

Teachers and counselors deemed appropriate to who?  Again, to HLA.

HLA claims to have all state certified teachers.  I assume they claim this because they see value in that and that it would be a good selling point to parents.  THOSE ARE HLA'S REPORTED VALUES.  HLA is not living up to that.  Counselors are supposed to have degrees within the field of counseling, yet you have counselors with degrees in divinity and criminal justice with very little clinical training if any at all.  You KNOW that is true.

Many people on this board really just want HLA to live up to its stated standards.  Len has chosen not to do that and he is now reeping what he has sown.

There...I have stayed within the points of your discussion.  You can now take the opportunity to refute what I have stated.

[Anonymous]

What state authority is HLA required to adhere to but doesn't?

How could HLA operate if they do not adhere to a state authority they are required to adhere to?

If HLA determines the appropriateness of its students then any student they deem appropriate would be appropriate.  Is that not logical?

Are you stating that Divinity does not prepare someone for counseling?  What evidence do you have that these individuals you refer to as inappropriately trained truly do not have quality clinical skills?

Are you positive that a private institution is required to adhere to all of these regulations and authorities or would you just prefer that they did?
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[RobertBruce]

Again the red herring emerges.

You are attempting to detract from the real issues concerning hla by trying to paint us as a group of misguided degenerate hippies who advocate drug use.

Your whole basis for this claim centering on a link to counter culture books?

What makes you think any of us have something to do with what is displayed on this website?

Other than our own post none of us save Deborah as the moderator has any control over the display or content of fornits...but then again you already know that. Youre simply trying to distract parents from the truth.

I'll tell you what though, find me a post from an anti hla adult on here who post regurarly and isnt a troll, advocating drug use and I'll acknowledge you being correct and apologize.

In the meantime:

Authorities appropriate to who?

The legal governing body of Georgia. If hla would become licensed as a theraputic boarding school and stop pretending to be otherwise this would go a long way in my book. Of course they wont do that (willingly) because it would mean oversight from the state.

Student deemed inappropriate by who?

How about common sense? Too vauge? How about hla then? HLA claims they dont admit court ordered kids. Is this correct? Would a child with violent tendecies be appropriate in a non lockdown facility? Do you have kids? Would you want them attending public school with kids that exhibited dangerous destructive behaviors? How about pedophiles? Rapist? Would be murderers? Are these kids appropriate to go to school with your children? How would you feel if they were but your childs school was lying to you about it?


 

Teachers and Counselors deemed appropriate by who?

I think the department of education on either the state or federal level would be acceptable.

Hope this answers all your questions. Please get back to me on mine just as quick as you can. I'll look forward to it.

[RobertBruce]

 Why don't we continue talking about how my "dream team" could help you get your political agenda of legalized drugs, prostitution and gambling enacted while we shut down the educational system.

Do you actually have anything at all to back this up?

[Anonymous]

Robert,

I feel compelled to help you here. First, HLA is a private organization, it is not a public school, it is not a state agency, both of these would require state supervision.  Second, most student at HLA have failed to be successful in multiple other settings including public school envirionments, private boarding schools, military schools, wilderness programs and residential treatment facilities.  This is the nature of the student with which HLA deals.  There are plenty of fine traditional boarding schools available for children.  Unfortunately, these students have failed to succeed in these environments.
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[RobertBruce]

What state authority is HLA required to adhere to but doesn't?

They have lied to the state regarding their purpose. Again you know this, by bringing it up you are only highlighting it for newcomers. The school claimed to the SOS, and ORS that they were a traditional boarding school with the primary purpose being education. Anyone who has ever set foot there knows this is not the case. ORS has guidelines for RTC's which hla meets the requirements of and should be licensed as (which again would mean state oversight. Can't have that now can we?) Further they advertise to both parents, ed cons, and online as a theraputic boarding school. Perhaps you can explain the discrepancy.

How could HLA operate if they do not adhere to a state authority they are required to adhere to?

See above answer. They lied to the state.

If HLA determines the appropriateness of its students then any student they deem appropriate would be appropriate. Is that not logical?

Perhaps, except hla admits certian students to the school after claiming to parents and in their literature that they do not. Would you care to argue otherwise?

Are you stating that Divinity does not prepare someone for counseling? What evidence do you have that these individuals you refer to as inappropriately trained truly do not have quality clinical skills?

The evidence would be they never went to school for it, thus they are not trained. Oh and yes divinity does not adequetly prepare someone for counseling. I've met Kees.

Are you positive that a private institution is required to adhere to all of these regulations and authorities or would you just prefer that they did?

A private institution? No probably not. I guess it's a good thing hla has accepted federal funds huh?

[Anonymous]

What state authority is HLA required to adhere to but doesn't?

How could HLA operate if they do not adhere to a state authority they are required to adhere to?

If HLA determines the appropriateness of its students then any student they deem appropriate would be appropriate.  Is that not logical?

Are you stating that Divinity does not prepare someone for counseling?  What evidence do you have that these individuals you refer to as inappropriately trained truly do not have quality clinical skills?

Are you positive that a private institution is required to adhere to all of these regulations and authorities or would you just prefer that they did?

The students are not appropriate if the decision made on their appropriateness is in contradiction to their stated standards.  HLA has accepted violent students.  HLA has accepted sexual predators.  Does this fit in to what HLA deems appropriate, or is it more likely that Len Buccellato needed heads in beds so he compromised HLA's standards.  To say that a student is appropriate just because Len gives his stamp of approval is not only arrogant, it is dangerous.  There are no checks and balances.

Yes I am stating that a masters in Divinity does not prepare someone for counseling unless the concetration within that degree was counseling.  And the criminal justice degree also does not prepare for counseling.  Divinity degreed people have routinely been poor counselors at HLA and have a much larger learning curve than MA's in counseling or even MSW's.

[RobertBruce]

Robert,

I feel compelled to help you here. First, HLA is a private organization, it is not a public school, it is not a state agency, both of these would require state supervision.  Second, most student at HLA have failed to be successful in multiple other settings including public school envirionments, private boarding schools, military schools, wilderness programs and residential treatment facilities.  This is the nature of the student with which HLA deals.  There are plenty of fine traditional boarding schools available for children.  Unfortunately, these students have failed to succeed in these environments.

Oh please, allow me to help you. HLA is a private organization ( wait are we talking about the for profit or the non profit versions of hla?) that has accepted federal funds. Further under GA law any RTC private or not is required to be subject to state oversight. Furthermore if everything at HLA is as great as you want people to believe it is, why would they have any reason to avoid state oversight? It would seem to me if it's really that great, they would have nothing to worry about.

[Anonymous]

Robert

First, are you certain no private organizations are allowed to accept federal funds?    

Second, doesn't government oversight tend to increase cost and reduce efficiency?  Ever been to a governement agency to get anything done?

Sounds like HLA is just not living up to your expectations.  Thank goodness we live in a Capitalist society so you have other schools to choose from.
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[Anonymous]

Robert

First, are you certain no private organizations are allowed to accept federal funds?    

Second, doesn't government oversight tend to increase cost and reduce efficiency?  Ever been to a governement agency to get anything done?

Sounds like HLA is just not living up to your expectations.  Thank goodness we live in a Capitalist society so you have other schools to choose from.

Based on your enrollment numbers of late I would say that a lot of people feel they have other schools to choose from and are making that choice.

[RobertBruce]

First, are you certain no private organizations are allowed to accept federal funds?

No private organizations? That I don't know. HLA however, that one I'm positive on. Not just for the reason that they are a school that accepted federal funding, but because they should be licensed as an RTC and private are not, are therefore subject to state oversight.

Second, doesn't government oversight tend to increase cost and reduce efficiency? Ever been to a governement agency to get anything done?

Let's take this argument a step further shall we? Why don't we remove all government oversight? That way manufacturing plants wouldnt have that pesky EPA always looking over their shoulder increasing cost and reducing effciency. While were at it lets remove all state medical boards. Anyone who wants to be a doctor should get to be a doctor (I know Clay is with me on this) screw any kind of oversight. I think you're really onto something here. As far as reducing cost at HLA Len could always lower salaries by 20% instead of ten. That might save a few dollars. As far as efficency...well Hla has never exactly been a model of that anyway, perhaps the state reps could give them a few pointers. Oh and to answer your question I've been to the post office many many times. They usually get the job done.

Sounds like HLA is just not living up to your expectations. Thank goodness we live in a Capitalist society so you have other schools to choose from.

My expectations? My expectations are that they practice what they cram down kids throats. That they follow state laws. That they be honest in all things. That they not lie to parents. That they treat children with respect and dignity and not just as a cash cow that needs to be silenced. Are these too high for you? As to other schools, from what I've seen most RTCs are the same as hla, many are far worse. As to choices...well remember how much they lie to parents. Not that I as a child had any choice in the matter to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Is it not true that RTC are locked units which limit the freedom and mobility of thier clients?  If this is true, HLA students roam the campus freely and the campus has no fencing or gates.  How does this quality HLA as a RTC?
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[RobertBruce]

I was unaware that one of the requirements to be considered a RTC was lockdown facility. Perhaps you can provide a link proving such a claim? Furthermore inmates at hla are not exactly free to "roam the campus" as you put it.

Were you going to get to any of those other questions?

[Anonymous]

Robert,

I apologize for neglecting your other comments.  I did not see any particular questions.  We seem to have established that there are no state or federal regulatory agencies which can be identified that HLA, as a private organization, must adhere to.  Businesses from farms, airlines, and oil companies have received federal funds and subsidies yet remain privately owned and opperated.  So I am unsure that HLA is some how now considered a public school.  HLA is a boarding school not an RTC.
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[Deborah]

Robert

First, are you certain no private organizations are allowed to accept federal funds?    

Second, doesn't government oversight tend to increase cost and reduce efficiency?  Ever been to a governement agency to get anything done?

Sounds like HLA is just not living up to your expectations.  Thank goodness we live in a Capitalist society so you have other schools to choose from.

Any school/program that receives Fed money must follow certain requirements. Being properly licensed for the services provided is one. Can't ride the fence- telling the state you're a private boarding school and the public, a TBS. I challenge you, or any parent, to read the ORS regulations and list the regulations you feel would not be in the participants best interests.

No doubt, oversight would increase costs. There may be a nominal annual fee for the license. Each 'patient' would have a service plan. At $6000 a month, that doesn't seem too much to ask. Regulations would certainly interfere with many of their policies and procedures. They may have to allow contact with family unless proven to be detrimental, to provide adequate calories, to banish some of their barbaric punishments, to name a few. I would think any caring parent would support that.