So what DOES work?

[Anonymous]

These kids deserve to be able to talk to authorities, but truth be told, there are kids who lie, and manipulate.

So what?  Let the authorities straighten out fact and fiction - it's their job.  Denying access to report abuse because "some" kids "lie" and "manipulate" is wrong, period.  This is fundamentally at odds with a a patient's rights as well as laws governing abuse reporting by schools.

Your statement is just plain wrong on many levels.

Well said.

 ::cheers::

[Anonymous]

One more thing, on the way back we will swing by the police station so they can interview you, like the don't already have enough crap to deal with! This is the real world folks.

Guys, a lot of what CCM girl is saying is just good sense. Let's be fair there are times when all kids and young adults don't wanna do something that they've basically gotta do (truancy rates prove this I think) and you can't go passing laws that strip back parental authority. Kids generally get up to crazy shit and it's not always possible to tell the sifference between teenaged acting out and more deeply motivated behaviour. I think very clearly it is a serious problem for kids to be in an environment where they have no contact with the outside world and therefore have no ability to contact a neutral third party with a problem.

We are talking about abused runaways being hunted down and forced back into an abusive program because no one gives a shit.  And that is just plain unacceptable.  Runaway abused teens who are caught should absolutely have the right to be taken to the local authorities where they can call their parents and make a formal complaint against the program.  Following this, the authorities would be required to investigate the allegations made in the complaint BEFORE allowing the child to return.  This is a no brainer, IMO.  Shit, how hard is it to give kids the benefit of the doubt instead of labeling them liars and manipulators?  If you run and it's because you were abused, then you need protection, not a one-way ticket back to the hellhole you ran from.

Yup, it is a no brainer.  What amazes me is how blind some folks are not because they are necessarily stupid, but because they can't grasp the concept that just being locked up in a program with no rights is abuse.  Advocating that teens shouldn't be trusted because some of them lie or manipulate is bullshit.  That's exactly how these programs CONTROL the children and their parents.  It's a vicious cycle.  How about this:  SCREW THE PROGRAMS.  THEY ARE THE ONES WHO CAN'T BE TRUSTED.  THEY ARE THE SUPREME MANIPULATORS.  THEY ARE THE ABUSERS.

 ::armed::

[Covergaard]

I have seen more than a few cases where the child was beaten up severely by their oh so sorry parents and where the parents have tried to send them away in order to avoid the bruises or broken limbs to be detected.

Also sexual abuses of the child being done by an uncle or other relative have resulted in the child being send away in order to avoid scandal for the family in the local community.

Of the private owned institution would not try to bring their customer - the parents - to justice. If they do, they would loose income.

I am fully aware that a child on the run is very stressful and in anger of being a victim of a crime. But when a child i recaptured there should be a holding period of perhaps a week in a public controlled institution before the child i brought back. The child needs rest and claimed abuse of children should investigated.

That is why we in my country have so much control and not even we are 100 percent flawless.

Just last summer people began to wonder why kids down to 8 year wandered alone along roadsides in a town 60 kilometres from my town without adult present. And we was talking 11 p.m. Investigation showed that it was a punishment in a institution that a child should walk the amount 8 kilometres alone at night if the child was 8 years old. If the child was 11, the punishment was 11 kilometres.

Just imagine what it would have looked like if a car had struck the poor child.

Of course the instution is now shut down, but the case showed that our politician had received negative reports about that exact instution for almost two year without doing something.

And no public interference when a child runs away? It is a grab bag for abuse of the children.

We have to recognise that even drug use can be a result of the child trying to forget abuse by parents and other relatives. Not that I claim it in this case. But generally it is a possibility. No program should take part in a cover-up, but sometimes the ecomomy rules over justice.

[Anonymous]

Well then figure out where the money should come from, because right now these departments are overworked and underpaid.

[Anonymous]

Well then figure out where the money should come from, because right now these departments are overworked and underpaid.

Fucking tax the programs.  Charge em big bucks for trash removal.  Getting money is NOT the issue.  This is a mindset that has to be changed.  Hell, you got even former program kids advocating that "some" kids can't be trusted. WTF?  A couple runaways a month isn't going to bankrupt law enforcement.  Investigating programs is the job of the police, CPS and human services.  In other words, the state.  Imagine if even one runaway makes it to safety and reports abuse.  The program gets investigated and abuse is confirmed.  This benefits the runaway and the OTHER CHILDREN.  Not to mention their parents who usually don't know what the hell is going on in these institutions.  They wouldn't need to FILE A LAWSUIT as a recourse for being defrauded and their child being abused because they would be told COME GET YOUR KID MOM AND POP.

[Anonymous]

I have seen more than a few cases where the child was beaten up severely by their oh so sorry parents and where the parents have tried to send them away in order to avoid the bruises or broken limbs to be detected.

Also sexual abuses of the child being done by an uncle or other relative have resulted in the child being send away in order to avoid scandal for the family in the local community.

Of the private owned institution would not try to bring their customer - the parents - to justice. If they do, they would loose income.

I am fully aware that a child on the run is very stressful and in anger of being a victim of a crime. But when a child i recaptured there should be a holding period of perhaps a week in a public controlled institution before the child i brought back. The child needs rest and claimed abuse of children should investigated.

That is why we in my country have so much control and not even we are 100 percent flawless.

Just last summer people began to wonder why kids down to 8 year wandered alone along roadsides in a town 60 kilometres from my town without adult present. And we was talking 11 p.m. Investigation showed that it was a punishment in a institution that a child should walk the amount 8 kilometres alone at night if the child was 8 years old. If the child was 11, the punishment was 11 kilometres.

Just imagine what it would have looked like if a car had struck the poor child.

Of course the instution is now shut down, but the case showed that our politician had received negative reports about that exact instution for almost two year without doing something.

And no public interference when a child runs away? It is a grab bag for abuse of the children.

We have to recognise that even drug use can be a result of the child trying to forget abuse by parents and other relatives. Not that I claim it in this case. But generally it is a possibility. No program should take part in a cover-up, but sometimes the ecomomy rules over justice.

Excellent post!  Grab bag for abuse of the children.  You nailed that one perfectly!  

 :tup:  :tup:  :tup:  :tup:  :tup:

[Deborah]

These kids deserve to be able to talk to authorities, but truth be told, there are kids who lie, and manipulate. Then there are the kids who are telling the truth. BTW, I was both. There was a time in my life I exaggerated, and lied to manipulate people. Then there was a time, that honest to god I was telling the truth, but nobody believed me, and it sucked.

And who will determine who is lying? The program?
You have to err on the side of caution. If for no other reason than what you stated, "honest to god I was telling the truth, but nobody believed me, and it sucked." We all have that right, to be heard before we're convicted and sentenced. The truth 'usually' comes out, when due process has been served.

My grandson was convicted of holding up signs that said the other team sucked, running through the stands and out onto the court, during a volleyball game. He was convicted and sentenced to being banned from all extra curricular activities for 3 months. Principal tried and sentenced him based on what 3 people had told her about a "group" of boys that he was lumped in with. She also claimed that their behavior was so bad the ref threatened to call the game.
According to the coach, no such thing occured and she didn't even recall any of the boys running onto the court at inappropriate times.
My daughter did some research and couldn't find one person to support that her son was involved or that what did happen was anywhere near the degree the principal has expressed. In fact, there were several, including a teacher, who refuted that my g'son was involved. Did her 'witnesses' even know my g'son? Apparently not.
The principal had to eat crow, but in order to save face maintain her position of 'control' she only "reduced his sentence". He was banned for the rest of the semester, two weeks, because he was associated with the group at all. He had to miss one or two of the girls volleyball games and a Friday nite social, for absolutely no good reason.

Kids behaviors need to be addressed, but they frequently don't get a fair deal. Too many assumptions and a lack of respect. Not enough respect to even bother with getting the facts. What the hell does that teach???

Had my daughter not advocated for my g'son he would be serving a sentence he didn't deserve.  Had she not asked questions herself and just took the word of the principal, who was acting on someone elses allegations, she'd be assuming my g'son was becoming a wild child who needed more control. She may have even doled out more punishment at home and/or forbid him from attending activities alone. Which could very well have soured his attitude about adults and school in general. When kids are treated unjustly it breeds resentment and opens the door for all kinds of issues and problems. The least being a attitude of "fuck it".  

Had this hysterical drama queen, zero tolerance principal been dealing with g'ma she would've removed the sentence all together or next on the agenda, she'd be defending herself to the school board. Kids deserve the same due process we adults expect. When you boil it all down, it's a demonstration of respect... something soarly missing in kid lives.

Exceptions? Yeh, but this is the general attitude toward kids. Like Mr. Sharpe at Heartland was quoted as saying, "As adults it's our job to talk. It's your job to listen." Dumb fuck. Kids don't hear a word you say after that. It's like a protective layer of skin grows over the ear drum at that very moment. And their not listening could ultimately end in their death due to abusive punishment.  Ageism is alive and well. We need safeguards wherever they can be put into place and to err on the side of caution.

[Deborah]

Well then figure out where the money should come from, because right now these departments are overworked and underpaid.

BS. While a few may be underfunded and overworked, it's more times their lack of caring and duty. You can't imagine what has been done to get the authorities in Ga to do their jobs. Utah promotes Wilderness on their website. The director of licensing has excused his fellow saints for violations. Forget Missouri. And Montana is allowing self-regulation.
There is no easy solution. Parents and advocates must hold the authorities responsible. And look at the Sudweeks case. Her punishment- can't run a program in Juab county for the rest of her life. Anywhere else, is just fine. Skyline Journey shut down, open under a new name. Many just like it.
Regulation is not going to ensure that kids will be safe. What it ensures is that the program will be required to report abuses, injuries, deaths; so we can get a real handle of the "effectiveness" of the industry. There will also be a sturcture in place so authorities can go in to investigate abuse without a lengthy process to gain access to the 'private corporation'.

[Dr Phil]

Oh sorry, I shouldn't be speaking from personal experience you hate that!!!!!!!! Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone here is speaking from their own experience, that can't be helped. I think what people take issue with is when people apply their own experience to everyone else and assume everyone and their experiences are somehow similar. That's why a lot of WWASPS graduates sound just like you, consider themselves straight shooters, they had a great time in WWASPS and are thankful for it. Should we apply their experience to everyone else, and assume everyone else will have a nice time too? This is how edcons are born.

[Anonymous]

This is how edcons are born.

Bingo.  ::rocker::  ::rocker::  ::rocker::  ::rocker::  ::rocker::

[Anonymous]

You are all so one sided. You guys also live in a fantasy world. Wake up, and smell the coffee.  :-?

[Anonymous]

Would that be Folger's or Starbucks?  Maybe certified  organic, free-trade?

[Anonymous]

You are all so one sided. You guys also live in a fantasy world. Wake up, and smell the coffee.  :-?

Actually, it sounds to me like YOU are the one who needs to wake up.  Put down your koolaid and start using your critical thinking skills anon.  Maybe then you'll "get it".  

 :rofl:

[Anonymous]

These kids deserve to be able to talk to authorities, but truth be told, there are kids who lie, and manipulate. Then there are the kids who are telling the truth. BTW, I was both. There was a time in my life I exaggerated, and lied to manipulate people. Then there was a time, that honest to god I was telling the truth, but nobody believed me, and it sucked.

And who will determine who is lying? The program?
You have to err on the side of caution. If for no other reason than what you stated, "honest to god I was telling the truth, but nobody believed me, and it sucked." We all have that right, to be heard before we're convicted and sentenced. The truth 'usually' comes out, when due process has been served.

My grandson was convicted of holding up signs that said the other team sucked, running through the stands and out onto the court, during a volleyball game. He was convicted and sentenced to being banned from all extra curricular activities for 3 months. Principal tried and sentenced him based on what 3 people had told her about a "group" of boys that he was lumped in with. She also claimed that their behavior was so bad the ref threatened to call the game.
According to the coach, no such thing occured and she didn't even recall any of the boys running onto the court at inappropriate times.
My daughter did some research and couldn't find one person to support that her son was involved or that what did happen was anywhere near the degree the principal has expressed. In fact, there were several, including a teacher, who refuted that my g'son was involved. Did her 'witnesses' even know my g'son? Apparently not.
The principal had to eat crow, but in order to save face maintain her position of 'control' she only "reduced his sentence". He was banned for the rest of the semester, two weeks, because he was associated with the group at all. He had to miss one or two of the girls volleyball games and a Friday nite social, for absolutely no good reason.

Kids behaviors need to be addressed, but they frequently don't get a fair deal. Too many assumptions and a lack of respect. Not enough respect to even bother with getting the facts. What the hell does that teach???

Had my daughter not advocated for my g'son he would be serving a sentence he didn't deserve.  Had she not asked questions herself and just took the word of the principal, who was acting on someone elses allegations, she'd be assuming my g'son was becoming a wild child who needed more control. She may have even doled out more punishment at home and/or forbid him from attending activities alone. Which could very well have soured his attitude about adults and school in general. When kids are treated unjustly it breeds resentment and opens the door for all kinds of issues and problems. The least being a attitude of "fuck it".  

Had this hysterical drama queen, zero tolerance principal been dealing with g'ma she would've removed the sentence all together or next on the agenda, she'd be defending herself to the school board. Kids deserve the same due process we adults expect. When you boil it all down, it's a demonstration of respect... something soarly missing in kid lives.

Exceptions? Yeh, but this is the general attitude toward kids. Like Mr. Sharpe at Heartland was quoted as saying, "As adults it's our job to talk. It's your job to listen." Dumb fuck. Kids don't hear a word you say after that. It's like a protective layer of skin grows over the ear drum at that very moment. And their not listening could ultimately end in their death due to abusive punishment.  Ageism is alive and well. We need safeguards wherever they can be put into place and to err on the side of caution.

I think this is one of the most insightful and honest posts ever to go on these boards. Nothing is more harmful to the development of young adults than the shitty examples of their authority figures.

[ZenAgent]

You are all so one sided. You guys also live in a fantasy world. Wake up, and smell the coffee.  :-?

Oh, no, we see both sides, unfortunately.  Knowing both sides, we choose to be on the fair and right side. Some posters here have been the unwilling inmates of abusive facilities.  Were you?  How can you claim to know so much?