So what DOES work?

[Oz girl]

I would agree with aardvark but also argue that any place even a nice one which deals with such a wide breadth of adolescent issues needs to be questioned because nowhere can be all things to all people. How can a place possibly be effective in its treatment of such a wide range of problems. Even if a kid may be happier there than in an unhappy home it does not mean that if they have a specific issue they will be helped. it just means the harm will be minimised.
The other question I would ask is whether it is safe to have a 12 year old with aspergers in the same place with an angry 17 year old with behaviour issues without there being a strong possiblility of bullying. Or a naive 13 year old in with a sexually active drug taking 17 year old not being exposed to issues that they may not have the emotional maturity to cope with.

[Dr Phil]

And just because a kid goes willingly does not mean the facility is safe. Ask how many wwasps kids went there willingly and were not escorted, quite a few. Almost every program discussed here, has kids who will go willingly with their parents, not knowing what it's really like. Sometimes people don't realize they were abused in a program until years down the road until the brainwashing has worn off and you can see the experience for what it really was.

[Anonymous]

The whole time I was at Heritage I didn't come across a lot of my peers that were escorted there. I would say the majority were brought by their parents. As a kid nobody wants to be forced to do something or go somewhere they don't know. It's human nature, we'd rather do what we want, when we want, and how we want.

I ran away several times, and they had a team of people that went out and located me. They are responsible for you. What are you supposed to do, turn to the parents and shrug your shoulders and go geez I am really sorry we can't find your child, and their missing......here's a map, and good luck to you! Call us when you've found them.

I believe children should have rights, but you're treating them like adults that don't have a lot of life experience under their belts. They don't. Being on the run is scary, and you can get killed because you're so vulnerable. I don't approve when teens are tried as adults either in a court of law. It seems like just yesterday to me when I was a kid, and fucking up all the time. There was many reasons why I did it. Frusteration, to get attention, and just because I thought I knew what I was doing, but didn't.

They don't hand out referral fee's to my knowledge. They have one school, with plenty of good reputation backing it, and don't need to fill a massive amount of beds. They don't accept everyone. I do not believe they are like the other schools on this board. I talk to kids and ask them questions, and compare it to my experiences and I feel like I can say without losing a wink of sleep that it's a very good school.

I was one of their tougher cases, I physically abused the staff, and got into fights with other kids. Hell, I even bit a staff member once. She had to go to the hospital, and she lost feeling in her arm for a few months. There was no retaliation. There wasn't many of us there that did that sort of thing.  Granted I was not like that when I first got there. It was only after a couple years that I got frusterated, and gave up. It was a 100% my parents fault, not Heritages. But, Heritage could not force my parents to take me home.

I will never convince the majority of people on here that placing children somewhere is ever exceptable. I realize that I am the minority. But, I don't give a shit. Really, I could care less. I pick and choose my battles. I know what I would like to see happen. I know certain programs that are abusive that need to be closed. This is not one of them, and it's not because I get kickbacks from them, or have decided to go to the other side and become an Ed Con. I say these things because parents come here looking for alternatives, and they have the money to send the kids away, and they're going to do it anyway. Why not speak up and say, if you absolutly must then I recommend so and so.

The sooner you realize that good programs for kids are here to stay, and you focus your energies to close all the ones that are abusive, then we might be doing some good around here.

Sorry, but as tired as you're getting of my shit, I am getting tired of yours too. But, whatever! A lot of us have known eachother for quite sometime now, and I respect you all having your own opinions. We are all different people with different experiences relating to all this!

[CCM girl 1989]

Oopsy, that was me!

[Anonymous]

CCM apparently you don't realize there is something wrong with hunting down runaways for the purpose of hauling them back to the facility.  If the kid runs from abuse and is taken back (meaning he/she is not allowed to be taken by the school security guards to a police station to report abuse) then that's a bad thing.  It happens more than you know apparently.

Also, Why do you think so many reports of abuse go unreported?  

This is one of the reasons.  Kids have NO WAY to report abuse.  Their parents don't believe them (the kid is manipulating).  If the kid runs and is captured, he/she is taken right back to the facility they ran from and punished.  

No need to be defensive.  Just trying to let parents know they need to ask what the school's policy is on runaways.  Will their kid be given a chance to report abuse to authorities (and their parents) or just captured and punished?  

As for forced transport, being forced into treatment is not the best way to go.  Many kids are tricked into it and that's a cop out, IMO. I have heard of parents drugging their own kids to make it easier for transporters.  That's sick, IMO!  Get your kid help but don't terrorize them.  That's pathetic.  Besides, then there are the cases of kids being abused by transporters.  They are treated like prisoners, IMO.  It's disgusting and should be outlawed.  If they were 18, they could not be taken against their will anywhere.  That's called kidnapping and it's a federal offense.

[CCM girl 1989]

You're right, they should just let them run away, and not try to look for them. Puhleese!!!!!!!!

What the heck are you smoking? It's dangerous out there. The people that take in runaways a lot of the time are hiding from the law themselves.

[CCM girl 1989]

One more thing, on the way back we will swing by the police station so they can interview you, like the don't already have enough crap to deal with! This is the real world folks.

[Anonymous]

CCM, do you not understand that kids who run away are often running from abusive treatment?   I don't care what your situation or experience was.  There are kids who run from being abused and are caught and taken back to the abusive facility ... sometimes with the help of local law enforcement.  Program owners tell the police, not to worry, the kid is a manipulator, a troubled teen.  You can't believe a word these kids say.  They will say anything to get out of a program.  So instead of being able to report abuse, they are silenced.  And made to face the potential for punitive consequences.  The cycle of abuse continues.  Behind closed doors.

I suggest you stop projecting your own experience and think about why there needs to be laws to protect runaways.  They should NEVER be taken back until they are interviewed by someone outside the program, preferably law enforcement and social services.  If they allege abusive conditions, practices, or policies, the state should be MANDATED to investigate BEFORE taking the kid back.   Any decent parent would want this, BTW.

 :flame:

[Anonymous]

One more thing, on the way back we will swing by the police station so they can interview you, like the don't already have enough crap to deal with! This is the real world folks.

Guys, a lot of what CCM girl is saying is just good sense. Let's be fair there are times when all kids and young adults don't wanna do something that they've basically gotta do (truancy rates prove this I think) and you can't go passing laws that strip back parental authority. Kids generally get up to crazy shit and it's not always possible to tell the sifference between teenaged acting out and more deeply motivated behaviour. I think very clearly it is a serious problem for kids to be in an environment where they have no contact with the outside world and therefore have no ability to contact a neutral third party with a problem.

[Anonymous]

I've heard of some programs who pay a "bounty" to locals for assistance in capturing runaways and bringing them back to the program.  Real nice, eh?  You think they would take an abused kid to get help and lose a chance to make some extra money? Not likely.  The kid is screwed no matter whether he/she runs or stays in an abusive program.  There's no escape.

[Anonymous]

One more thing, on the way back we will swing by the police station so they can interview you, like the don't already have enough crap to deal with! This is the real world folks.

Guys, a lot of what CCM girl is saying is just good sense. Let's be fair there are times when all kids and young adults don't wanna do something that they've basically gotta do (truancy rates prove this I think) and you can't go passing laws that strip back parental authority. Kids generally get up to crazy shit and it's not always possible to tell the sifference between teenaged acting out and more deeply motivated behaviour. I think very clearly it is a serious problem for kids to be in an environment where they have no contact with the outside world and therefore have no ability to contact a neutral third party with a problem.

We are talking about abused runaways being hunted down and forced back into an abusive program because no one gives a shit.  And that is just plain unacceptable.  Runaway abused teens who are caught should absolutely have the right to be taken to the local authorities where they can call their parents and make a formal complaint against the program.  Following this, the authorities would be required to investigate the allegations made in the complaint BEFORE allowing the child to return.  This is a no brainer, IMO.  Shit, how hard is it to give kids the benefit of the doubt instead of labeling them liars and manipulators?  If you run and it's because you were abused, then you need protection, not a one-way ticket back to the hellhole you ran from.

[Anonymous]

One more thing, on the way back we will swing by the police station so they can interview you, like the don't already have enough crap to deal with! This is the real world folks.

Guys, a lot of what CCM girl is saying is just good sense. Let's be fair there are times when all kids and young adults don't wanna do something that they've basically gotta do (truancy rates prove this I think) and you can't go passing laws that strip back parental authority. Kids generally get up to crazy shit and it's not always possible to tell the sifference between teenaged acting out and more deeply motivated behaviour. I think very clearly it is a serious problem for kids to be in an environment where they have no contact with the outside world and therefore have no ability to contact a neutral third party with a problem.

We are talking about abused runaways being hunted down and forced back into an abusive program because no one gives a shit.  And that is just plain unacceptable.  Runaway abused teens who are caught should absolutely have the right to be taken to the local authorities where they can call their parents and make a formal complaint against the program.  Following this, the authorities would be required to investigate the allegations made in the complaint BEFORE allowing the child to return.  This is a no brainer, IMO.  Shit, how hard is it to give kids the benefit of the doubt instead of labeling them liars and manipulators?  If you run and it's because you were abused, then you need protection, not a one-way ticket back to the hellhole you ran from.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with this. I'm not and I can't read anything into CCM girl's post that indicates that she is. Kids very clearly need to be able to contact parents, law enforcement agents or lawyers with ease and in confidence regardless of whether they are in a program or not. I'll be honest and say I am having difficulty constructing an internally rational set of standards I'd like to see applied here. The issue is too complex for a single set of rules to cover, the list of moral or ethical issues pertaining to the teen behaviour modification issues is as long as my arm and this is only one small bit of it.

[MightyAardvark]

Deleted

[CCM girl 1989]

CCM, do you not understand that kids who run away are often running from abusive treatment?   I don't care what your situation or experience was.  There are kids who run from being abused and are caught and taken back to the abusive facility ... sometimes with the help of local law enforcement.  Program owners tell the police, not to worry, the kid is a manipulator, a troubled teen.  You can't believe a word these kids say.  They will say anything to get out of a program.  So instead of being able to report abuse, they are silenced.  And made to face the potential for punitive consequences.  The cycle of abuse continues.  Behind closed doors.

I suggest you stop projecting your own experience and think about why there needs to be laws to protect runaways.  They should NEVER be taken back until they are interviewed by someone outside the program, preferably law enforcement and social services.  If they allege abusive conditions, practices, or policies, the state should be MANDATED to investigate BEFORE taking the kid back.   Any decent parent would want this, BTW.

 :flame:

Oh really, you don't care what my situation, or experience was? Well, I think a lot of parents and other people here do. I'd rather get information from someone like me (a straight shooter), then somebody like you who can't see both sides of things, because you were never in the schools I was. It is a very complex issue!!!! That cannot be solved overnight. Do us a favor, and stick to what you know to be fact, and I will keep sticking to what I know since I experienced it myself.

These kids deserve to be able to talk to authorities, but truth be told, there are kids who lie, and manipulate. Then there are the kids who are telling the truth. BTW, I was both. There was a time in my life I exaggerated, and lied to manipulate people. Then there was a time, that honest to god I was telling the truth, but nobody believed me, and it sucked.

Oh sorry, I shouldn't be speaking from personal experience you hate that!!!!!!!! Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

[Troll Control]

These kids deserve to be able to talk to authorities, but truth be told, there are kids who lie, and manipulate.

So what?  Let the authorities straighten out fact and fiction - it's their job.  Denying access to report abuse because "some" kids "lie" and "manipulate" is wrong, period.  This is fundamentally at odds with a a patient's rights as well as laws governing abuse reporting by schools.

Your statement is just plain wrong on many levels.