Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

Another 73/74 Seedling Grad

<< < (12/18) > >>

marshall:
The Seed / Art seemed to assume that all drug users and even those with bad or 'druggie' attitudes were all suffering from the same problem that called for the same solution. One size fits all. No distinction was really made between a junkie in their 20's and a young teen with a rebellious attitude. I think this is one of the most serious flaws of the program.

Imagine a psychiatrist that gave all of her patients prozac, regardless of their problem. Many of those suffering from depression would probably be helped to a degree by this treatment. It might have no effect upon others and perhaps make others much worse or even cause them to commit suicide.  Imagine this psychiatrist then insisting that those who didn't respond positively to his treatment 'just didn't get it'...that the failed treatment was somehow their own fault. The same could be said about electro-shock  and any number of therapies. What may be helpful to some can be harmful to others.

The synanon / seed type of confrontational program may be effective for some people..or at least the lesser of two evils. Just as there are likely many people who are better-off being hari krishna's, jehovah's witnesses or scientologists. Who knows how many were lost and directionless, perhaps headed for suicide or prison, until they discovered the 'Truth' of Rev. Moon?  Does this mean those who left those groups or feel they were harmed by them are wrong?

People use drugs / alcohol for different reasons. The 14 year old kid may be smoking pot, drinking beer & smoking cigarettes because her friends are doing it. The result of peer pressure and trying to fit in. A 25 year old heroin addict may be suffering from profound depression or other more serious psychological problems. A teen using drugs like acid might be suffering from feelings of unreality and trying to find a deeper meaning to life (like myself). Others may simply be curious about the effects of the various drugs, sample them and move on.

Art assumed it was all due to personal flaws and the nefarious effects of an evil drug culture that was creeping over the nation...hence a strong focus of the program was on culture-reform rather than drug use itself. It was all due to the clothes, the hair styles, the slang, the music, posters and incense. I recall Ginger (staff member) saying that she got rid of her posters, music and incense because 'what would my newcomer think if she came home & I was rockin' out and burning incense?'

Landhy wrote earlier about his experience with psychiatrists....about how useless it was to him. I went to a psychiatrist for nearly a year before going to the seed. I suffered from feelings of unreality and fear. I was given lots of drugs in an attempt to treat my 'problem'. None had any major effect. They seemed to change their diagnosis of my problem on a weekly basis. So I'm no big fan of modern psychiatry either. It's a science still in it's infancy. I won't say that my time in therapy was totally useless though. I did learn some things about myself. It just never really addressed my underlying problem. Finally, right before I was sent to the Seed I was told that they couldn't cure me because I wasn't really sick. I was told that I suffered from existential anxiety as a result of asking too many deep questions. They concluded I would have to find my own answers to allay this anxiety and therapy offered no cure for me.

Just as my time in therapy was not a total waste, neither was my time at the Seed. But just as the therapy never really addressed my own underlying problem (and the main reason of my drug use), neither did the Seed. Just as I really wanted to be helped by therapy, I really wanted to believe in the Seed and all of their ideology.

 Unfortunately, despite all of the techniques I was exposed to on my program (& I maintain that some were useful despite the completely unethical way in which they were imparted) that deep fear or existential anxiety had been left untouched.  I still suffered from feelings of unreality. Any time I brought this up to staff I was told to stop looking for a heavy, stop asking those 'deep' questions and just concentrate on helping others.  That didn't work for me. The question (about the nature of reality) was just too deeply ingrained to ignore.  For me, it was long years of meditation that finally resolved that underlying pain / fear. That was my answer. But I don't insist that what worked for me is what eveyone else needs and ram it down their throat via coercion.
 
Many of those at the Seed may have simply suffered from some chemical imbalance in their brain....such as chronic depression that is amenable to treatment via the new antidepressants. Being reviled and yelled at was probably not appropriate treatment for them either. I can also see that if you completed your program and realized that you were still basically miserable you might feel not only hopeless but believe it was your own fault...that you just couldn't 'get it'. Returning to heavier drug use, alcoholism or suicide post-seed is entirely understandable under such circumstances. I can also see where those from really toxic families might view the seed as a life-saving alternative family and be grateful for that alternative.
 
[ This Message was edited by: marshall on 2006-01-07 19:11 ][ This Message was edited by: marshall on 2006-01-07 19:15 ]

Anonymous:
Marshall, Nice post.

I would imagine that the screening criteria at The Seed was "if you got through the door, you qualified." That fact that you showed up meant that Somebody thought you had a problem and Somebody thought The Seed would help. I'm sure they turned some folks away for various reasons but probably not many.
Saying that, I'm really in no position to speculate.

I will speculate though that as a lot of kids there in 73-74ish, my problem was not drugs; they were simply a "...side benefit..." of my problem.

Pre-Seed, I was the classic tumble weed. (sorry for the old description but it fits) My concern was to fit in, have fun and be cool. I have seen 1st hand the old lesson, from my daughter of 16, friends are very powerful. Her friends were super kids from the get go. Her standards are high and now she mingles with super kids and avoids the (careful now) "Losers". My friends sucked and we all wallered in our own shit together. I thought that we all thought that school was for nerds, sports was for jock assholes and anyone involved in any extracurricular activity didn't have a life. ?We? did though. We skipped school, got high, stole and damaged as much personal and public property as we could. And me, the tumble weed, I went along and even nurtured this paradigm. I had no perspective that I needed to figure out what was really important in life and find the strength to do it. Therefore, I was going nowhere and fast. I did a little therapy but as they say, ?A light bulb has to want to change?? The Seed, however egregious, made me want to change.

Now I will say that as big as my problems were to me, in the grand scheme of things they were miniscule and petty. Some others in The Seed probably had (careful again) real problems. Their life could have really sucked. Family, rape, jail, hard drugs, chemical depression, ignorant adults etc. etc. For me and my pathetic reality, all I needed was to be pointed in the right direction and given a big kick in the ass. For the others, that wouldn?t have worked so well? The Seed worked great for me and for the (probably many) others like me, it probably did the same and they have disappeared into life. For the ones that this did not fit, I see that it was more a stumbling block, (or Bus as someone said ) to getting things figured out. (forgive me for what is surely an understatement there)

An analogy:
In my industry, advertising photography, everyone is excellent at one or maybe a few things. I?m good at studio work focusing on products and special effects. Others are good at architecture or people or macro or scenic. Many photographers are whores and they?ll be glad to do your architecture, people, product or any other shot that is out of their expertise and bill you just the same. Some don?t think they?re whores, they think they really are good at everything. These guys gain very little but distain from the community. But because we are not saving lives in our industry, we don?t attack and perceive them as liars and self anointed Deities. They are just bottom feeders doing what they love, photography,  thereby helping some and screwing others.
The Seed was good at fixing  pathetic little shits like me but surely sucked at fixing kids with ?real? problems.

Out from under my rock?
Neil

Anonymous:

--- Quote ---On 2006-01-08 07:37:00, Neil wrote:



The Seed was good at fixing  pathetic little shits like me but surely sucked at fixing kids with ?real? problems.
 b

--- End quote ---


Neil, I am sorry but this premise you are harboring is just so flawed on so many levels and so indictive of the thinking of almost all adults that are pro-seed. We were hammered to believe, accept, and testify to the worthlessness of our existences pre-seed to such a level that to continue to accept the seed's perceived value, you must continue to accept your pre-seed life was tragically doomed without them.  This view doesn't comport with reality for most people.

First, the biggest complaints about these programs have come from people, like you, that were not addicts but instead juveniles with mostly family and/or behavorial issues, and the most ardent supporters seem to be older and drug addicted when they came in, like John U.

  I myself had similar issues to what you described, and the seed did anything but "fix" my issues, which really stemmed around abandonment, control, and neglect.  Drugs and other issues were secondary.

Second, I have a real hard time with your characterization of yourself as a "pathetic little shit" pre-seed.  I think you may need to get back in touch with who you really were and why you were running around vandalizing property and whatnot.  There were real reasons Neil, and I sincerely doubt it was because you were as you self-describe but that instead something else was going on.

Give that kid a break Neil and think about what was really going on.  


GregFL

Anonymous:
Greg,

You said:
"I have a real hard time with your characterization of yourself as a "pathetic little shit" pre-seed. I think you may need to get back in touch with who you really were and why you were running around vandalizing property and whatnot. There were real reasons Neil, and I sincerely doubt it was because you were as you self-describe but that instead something else was going on."

I thought The Seed was the entity that hammered us into accepting a ?truth? that was not.

You clearly believe and very well may be right with your assertions about The Seed
BUT
You cannot lead me to believe that I was fine and would have been better without The Seed. I?m not sure what you would have recommended for me back then. What reality would you have created for me?

"pathetic little shit"? Let?s not get too semantic. That kid didn?t need a break, he needed some understanding and a kick in the ass. My parents didn?t know how to do it but they knew I needed something.

Unfortunately I have gotten the message that many Seedling haven?t faired so well and they either blame The Seed or say it didn?t help or it made things worse. It?s too bad.

Do not stray too far from ?Perception is reality?. Your life is what ?You? make of it. If it takes 30 years of consternation to figure out the shit from the Teen years then that?s the life you?ve made for yourself. If you can take a slap in the face or a boot in your ass and figure your shit out early, then you can spend the next 30 years making good shit happen for yourself. Your choice, not someone elses.

Neil

Anonymous:
Neil :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page