Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Against My Better Judgement
marshall:
I found it ironic that a couple of posters showed their support for j.u. by exclaiming;
"You Rock!" & "You're a cool dude." If either of these phrases had been used at the Seed (at least while I was there) you would have been stood up and reprimanded for holding onto old druggie attitudes and slang. Cool was a definite no no. Folks in the popular culture were just beginnig to use 'dude' and this was also never to be used at the seed. I always thought dude seemed to go with chick...but apparently those in charge thought otherwise. Heck, you may as well have told a staff member they were really far-out. I can imagine the reaction back then.
Stripe:
--- Quote ---On 2005-08-15 18:11:00, JaLong wrote:
"John, I totally agree with you. If I didn't try to help someone everyday, even if it's just a smile, then what is my pupose in life?? I know God put me on this earth to love others as He loves me. I read so much negativity here, I wonder if some people are actually happy or even know who the are. I learned a lot from the Seed. Yet I also got pretty screwed up too. I went through AA, and that's where I really learned who I was.Even though I wasn't an alcholic and I learned to share my experince, strength, and hope with others.
Take care John.
Julie"
--- End quote ---
JaLong:
Surely you are not suggesting that seed rejecters need to step on over to AA to finish the job, are you ? :wink:
The seed program was not, I repeat NOT, all sweetness and light. I got it, I lived it and I rejected it. Does that make me an unhappy person - as if happiness were the end goal and the highest point of spiritual development? I think not.
In the end, I think what theseed did was create a whole class of emotional cripples, both supporters and rejecters. Some of whom to cannot, to this day, live outside the confines of a "program" of sorts. Those folks are the ones I feel sorry for because it just might be that there was NEVER any thing really broken about them in the first place. Ending up broken and unable to function in the real world, but totally at ease within the confines and protection of a program. Now that would make me a very unhappy person. If that were the case, I'd lay money on it that I would be no closer to knowing myself now than I was to knowing myself then - way, way back a long long time ago.
The person I thought I "knew" at 15 was the person they told me I was. Pure and simple. In my head, (that terrible place you would never want be caught) I wondered if I was really as bad as they said I was.
If someone were to tell you day in and day out you are full of shit, worthless, dishonest and will end up dead, insane or in jail unless you submit your will to the greater good ... Christ, it would take an emotional Hercules to maintain a power position in that battle and not believe it. Unfortunately, there was no Hercules in my head and I lost that battle.
Look at any abused child, or man, or woman, and you will see the very same results you have here. And yes, it happens to men, too. Some will deny EMPHATICALLY that they were abused. Some are ashamed, some are angry, and some just reach a point where they won't tolerate it any more, even a little tiny bit. Hence the very negative responses you saw to JohnU's posts which you have attributed to unhappiness or lack on knowing oneself. Personally, I think that's just a bit too shallow and a real easy way to ignore the content.
After all these years, I realized they were wrong about me. Plain and simple, they were wrong about me and what they did to me was wrong. It was wrong, it was immoral and it was unethical.
Tell me, would you go to the Chevy dealer to get your Ferrari fixed? Probably not. But folks still send their children to unqualified individuals in like-minded prgrams to "fix" the most priceless gift they could ever be given. What they get back is not the child they sent in. Why, oh why, can't you see this? Help me understand you, please.
GregFL:
stripe..did you miss Julie posting this?
"I learned a lot from the Seed. Yet I also got pretty screwed up too."
I think she is pretty objective obout her experience.
This is an observation I would like to make: What I took from the seed was overwhelmingly negative and caused me and my family much seperation and pain.
I saw other "kids" that seem to be able to just shrug it off, go on to smoke dope and drink and still say "the seed helped me...I needed something at the time". Their family units did not disenigrate around the issue, and their parents seemed to be able to put the whole program behind them.
As far as AA, I don't like it, never have never will. Still as we speak right now my best friend is going thru NA meetings to help him deal with his spouse's severe alcoholism. We talk about it all the time and it is helping him understand some things. He is also observing some negatives. The main point being, when XA is voluntary, and people are atending voluntarily and not under the coersion of the court system, It can be a beneficial thing. It can also become a compulsive replacement for the real world and cause people to believe they are "powerless" when in reality they possess the power, not some group of zealots...in other words....Shades of Gray and not all black and white. I have met many a AA person that was reasonable and others that were as cultish as any hari krisna shaking a tamboreen.
We all talk about how this forum has helped us, and I must say the biggest thing it has helped me with has been for me to be able to stop viewing my experience as the definition of what the seed was. It was many things to many people, and again the whole experience has many shades, depending on who is viewing it.
I will argue that the seed was a cult with anyone at any time and welcome the exchange, and I also believe firmly that the entire methodology does much more harm than good regardless of what particular group of world saving do gooders is leading the rap but no longer do I see it exclusively thru the eyes of a 14 year old boy.
Anonymous:
I think in some cases NA can be good, in other cases it can be nothing more than a different sort of addiction for the person going through a withdrawal. I know a woman who has been going to NA meetings for over 15 years because she used to smoke pot occasionally. If that ain't mental I don't know what is. She somehow thinks she is too weak and can't say no on her own without going to these meetings every month. Is that the fault of the NA program? Or her own personality. I think maybe a little of both. Someone should tell her to get over it already and move on with her life.
cleveland:
When I left the Seed I cast about for some kind of structure...stayed at home for a month until my mom, to celebrate new years, got drunk and told me, 'nice guys never win...and you're a nice guy' - among other unpleasantness, I left home again, although I did not sever ties with my family. I enrolled in college and met with the college shrink, who told me, month's later, 'you're a sensitive guy and you've been thru a lot.' Not much help there. I read books like 'The Drama of the Gifted Child' and anything by John Bradshaw about family systems and shame. Although I decided I was NOT an alcoholic and started to enjoy wine (but learned what was too much), and had even smoked a joint or two (and found I would not develop full blown paranioa, as I had pre-Seed), I went to AA meetings and Alanon and Adult Children of Alcoholics. I tried to imagine my inner child. I joined a 'family group' and tried to re-enact parts of my childhood (embarrasing). I joined a men's group. I tried going to church, decided I had problems with religious pronouncements. Suffering from anxiety and depression, I went to a doctor who prescribed a drug, that lifted all my anxiety, (yea!) removed my sex drive (oh oh), and finally led me to develop mania, which was fun but unsustainable (I kissed everyone, wept and laughed - but didn't sleep - wrote really bad - and really long - poems, and dressed in some kind of faux asian bohemian style; I almost lost my job!). I stopped the drug cold. I'm glad it's over, but I learned about parts of myself I didn't know still existed, like joy. Sometime later, I got married, and much later, divorced. Recently remarried (to a fantastic woman), and now I have a child, at age 46. My wife is jewish, I've been to temple (not bad - very spiritual and no banging on poor jesus christ all day long). I have wine with dinner, use no drugs except what's medically necessary, haven't gotten high in ages. If it weren't not for the fear that world is in terrible, terrible shape, I'd consider myself happy. And what did I take from all of this searching, flailing about for meaning?
We're all a bunch of fools and lost souls, and we should be kind to each other. Maybe there's a god, maybe not, but I am skeptical of anyone who claims to speak for him, her or it. Power corrupts everyone, and so does the lack of power. Buddhism is kind of cool, but can be boring. Sometimes it's nice to be with a group of people, sometimes you're better off alone, but both can make you crazy. Your family will drive you crazy, but that's where you came from. Hard work won't kill you, either will lazyness, just not too much of both. Sometimes problems do just go away by themselves. Doctors are people too. Goverment is corrupt. Beware of anyone who has an easy answer for you. Life is STILL like high school. There are always winners and losers, sometimes it doesn't matter.
There's my wisdom, such as it is. My Seed experience, both embracing it and rejecting it, was a part of that.
Sorry if this is self-endulgent, I just wanted to lay this out there. I suppose, in some way, this forum satisfies my need to 'rap.'Thank you!
Walter
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version