Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Against My Better Judgement
JDUKE:
Qute: Ahem.
My wet dreams always involved WOMEN, there anon..and hot women to boot.
Havent had one in years. In fact...I think I miss em.
In all seriousness, I too want John to keep posting. He is entitled to say whatever he wants, and so is everyone else.
LOL :silly:
To be an atheist requires strength of mind and goodness of heart found in not one of a thousand.
--Samuel Taylor Coleridge, English poet, critic, journalist, philosopher
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Stripe:
--- Quote ---On 2005-08-12 11:03:00, Stripe wrote:
"Robin,
....
Your very first post directed to me (to Anaon w/law degree) requested that I provide specific examples of how the seed hurt me. I was really shocked by the force, if you will, of your inquiry - like how in the world could I have possibly been hurt by something that was good for you? I dunno, maybe its because I was not and am an addict and you were/are therefore, the seed mind set is a structure you need to have and one I cannot tolerate. We can agree to be different. It's okay and I don't think it compromises your position or mine.
I bid you peace as well.
Kevin Jean aka Stripe "
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Turns out, I was wrong, it wasn't Robin, but an anon who wrote that to me. Thank you, Robin, for bringing it to my attention.
[ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-08-13 19:21 ]
marshall:
"Last year, a reporter from Canadian marijuana advocacy magazine Cannabis Culture asked Betty Sembler in person about the horror stories he?d read from Straight survivors. Sembler replied, ?They should get a life. I am proud of everything we have done. There's nothing to apologize for. The legalizers are the ones who should be apologizing.?
That?s the attitude of the drug war?s power duo. Shattered lives, suicides, forced abortions, fractured psyches ? all necessary casualties of the drug war, and nothing to apologize for."
Sound familiar? Same attitude. Get a life, get over it, grow up, etc. Expecting John to be critical of the Seed may be akin to expecting the pope to renounce catholicism. He was too much of an integral part of the whole program. Too much personally invested to take an objective look. I can imagine how I'd feel in his place reading this site. Any criticism of the program would feel like a personal attack. I agree with Ginger that it's very much like a religion. If you're a hindu and someone criticizes hinduism, you generally feel attacked along with the need to defend yourself and lash out.
On the Straight forum, I did find a post by a former senior staff member (marnie) apologizing for being a part of that program, pronouncing it a 'joke', etc.
Me, me, me. If you were sitting in the back during a rap all you'd hear would be me, me, me ad nauseum too. 'Before the seed 'I' was bad, now 'I' am trying to be good. I'm working on myself. Kicking myself in the ass everyday. Learning to love myself...blah blah.' Even if we posted that 'I remember helping someone or someone asked 'me' for help and I...' Isn't that also about me? At this site, Greg specifically asks us to relate 'personal' experiences' from the program. I don't have other's memories...their all mine.
Why so much negativity here? Think back to your days on the program. How many negative comments about the program or staff were you allowed to make? It was all 'accentuate the positive'...unless we were speaking about our horrible druggie past...in which case it was accentuate the negative. Only one side was allowed at the seed. Anything else was 'not important'. If you were on your program at the time & had asked staff why John left....do you suppose you would have been told anything resembling the truth? If the negative seems emphasized here, it's probably as a counterweight to the complete absence of any critical comments or thoughts being allowed back then. I've posted several times that there were positive things about the seed's ideas. I was able to keep and use what I thought useful and discard the rest. But this was explicitly forbidden by the program itself...no picking and choosing.
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quote:
"Bitterness, resentment, anger, hostility, self-pity, et al are not independent entities that possess you. These are choices you make."
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I agree 100%. About the only time that I even think of the Seed these days is when reading this forum. You shouldn't read the posts here and conclude that anyone sits around dwelling on this stuff. That's pure projection. Posting on this forum has several uses. By sharing (relating!) to others who have had similar expereinces, feelings and thoughts some of us have been able to heal the personality fragmentation and distortion resulting from the seed and help others to do the same. It isn't just a matter of us poor seed kids wallowing in our own resentments, etc. then The Seed is dead. Our captivity is over. Unfortunately, some version of Art's great dream lives on in countless other programs. It's important that we (who feel this way) make it plain that such programs cause more harm than good. Our witness and testimony here helps make that plain and hopefully some parent or govt. official may read here and have second thoughts about similar programs.
Expectations of perfection: I don't think I ever expected the seed to be perfect. But when someone claims to know your best interests more than you, your parents, therapists, this sets a very high standard. Peer-pressure techniques are value-free in themselves. You can mould a person's mind into any direction that you choose. That Art was so confident that he knew what was correct and true....so much that he was willing to use these powerful pursuasion techniques in order to bring kids' thinking into alignment with his own ideas...sets him (& his staff) up to a very high standard....almost beyond human. When did any rap leader confide; 'well, I'm not really sure about this...if any of you have any different ideas please feel free to correct me or bring them up.'? No. The concepts were presented as infallible, not to be questioned or examined. Any hint of critical thinking was met with the same sort of response that John has shown here. We were only supposed to take things so far...any further and it was 'analyzing, getting into your head, intellectual bullshit' and so on. Another thought-stopping techinique. It is the authoritarian nature of the seed that invites this focus upon the negative aspects. Rather than give any thoughtful answers or responses to the critiques of the seed posted here, John chose to answer by labeling ('bagging' everyone on the website...in seedspeak), calling people names and hurling insults. This approach is no doubt a product of the brotherly love, respect, empathy, compassion and great awareness that is the legacy of the seed.
For everyone that believes that the Seed was a good thing....I would urge you to visit the other forums on this site if you haven't already done so. Do you believe these other programs (such as Straight) were also good things? If not, why not exactly? What made the seed different? And which Seed are you defending? The early Seed...where most members were for legalizing marijuana according to a news clipping I read in staff's office? The Seed (and it's siblings in miami, st. pete and cleveland) of John's era? Or the later Seed with it's emphasis on money, status, where you were always on your program and never expected to leave? If you're only critical of the later seed, how did such loving, aware beings become status-seeking control freaks? Sorry so long. Much of the above is not directed specifically to John, just general thoughts from reading all the posts of late. I gotta run now...time for my afternoon mental masturbation. :lol:
JaLong:
John, I totally agree with you. If I didn't try to help someone everyday, even if it's just a smile, then what is my pupose in life?? I know God put me on this earth to love others as He loves me. I read so much negativity here, I wonder if some people are actually happy or even know who the are. I learned a lot from the Seed. Yet I also got pretty screwed up too. I went through AA, and that's where I really learned who I was.Even though I wasn't an alcholic and I learned to share my experince, strength, and hope with others.
Take care John.
Julie
Antigen:
Thus spake Dr Linda Hazzard before "curing" herself of all Earthly troubles w/ her own patented starvation cure.
Since you [US "drug tsar" McCaffrey] control a federal budget that has just been increased from $17.8 billion last year to $19.2 billion this year, is asking people like you if we should continue with our nation's current drug policy like a person asking a barber if one needs a haircut? --
Orange Country, California
Los Angeles Times
29 March 2000
--Judge James P. Gray
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