Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

Against My Better Judgement

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Stripe:
John U:

Fuelaw said -By the way John Underwood is a disgraceful human being !

I completely concur.  You are sloppy in your communication skills and you leave little to be desired in the way of inter-personal relation skills with those you deem below you.  A good man can find common ground with the lowly and the kings.

As for the lawyer/liar reference - it just goes to show that you are a sheep - a follower, a bleater. BAAAHHHH Someone who has no original thoughts whatsoever. BAAAHHHH  Please, if you are going to insult a profession, any profession and especially MY profession, at least take a little time to find out what it's really about.  But you would have to go beyond your sheep fence to do that and that's just not going to happen anytime soon, is it?  

As for the Me me me, III- what the fuck was the seed about anyway but me me me and IIII? You sure do have a selective memory, pal.  The entire program was premised on making us think about our own needs first.  I call bullshit on you for that.  You were a purveyor of mememe III - We were told that we could never get or claim understanding of the teachings at the seed  until we first loved ourselves.  

What now?  Do you see that the  incorrigibe "stupid" monsters you helped create in the 70's have grown up and come back to hold you accountable?  

No "come down" you ever did was ever predicated on helping someone - you yourself admitted that your diatribes were based on YOUR judgment of the "stupid" person who, by YOUR standards, didn't get "it."  It was always ABOUT YOU - attention on you - putting fear in the hearts of children and teenagers so they would do and think as YOU wanted them to.  YOU were and still are the seed.  I call bullshit on you, again,  John Underwood.  

What a real man you are now...insulting people because you just can't admit that MAYBE you might have been wrong.  Guess what pal, the "stupid" ones you continiue to demean on this forum can see right through your lizard mentality.  Your deep musings and defenses are pure entertainment to me and like a cat with lizard, I enjoy smacking your tail.  

Personally, I think you are just jealous because you have no ability to make it to the other side of the debate, let alone any deisre to learn something new. That you have not evolved, matured or  changed one fucking thing about the self you present here from the junkie control freak you were at the seed is so patently obvious, it's just too funny.  

To all those folks you scared who are reading this:folks- remember - he's just a man.  Another poor slob wrapped in a blanket of denial that won't forever keep him safe from the "fruits"  of his labor.  

I did not like you then and I especially don't like you now.  When you ask God to forgive you for what you have done and you seek the forgivness of those you hurt, maybe you will be able to see the gate and come on over.

Anonymous:
Quote: As far as helping other people - hey, I had newcomers. I tried to help them, given what I knew from my seed training. Did I? Did it do good? Perhaps one will post here at some point and I will know. I do know that now, as a socially, politically, intellectually engaged person, I try to do well - I volunteer, I work for a progressive non-profit, I have a wife and a child, we recycle! Etc. I try to live a good life. The seed experience was a part of that, but I have a very different direction from what 'Seed straight' was.

Hey Wally Gator,

I will respond to your question being that I lived with you at the Seed and you were technically one of my old comers in the later stages of my program. I can remember you very clearly as if it were yesterday I never considered you or thought of you as some lower rung member, the thought never occurred to me. Maybe because at this point of the game I was completely oblivious to any type of status climbing by anyone, I felt some people had more importance than others but just accepted this as the nature of things.  I always respected you very much and thought you were hysterical it was hard not to talk to you and leave the conversation not feeling good or better. The example you lead was very good and I felt that on the outside you toted the line very well (I never saw the internal conflicts you were wrestling with). Remember the rule ?If you see or hear of anyone with a problem?? I did think you did had some issues with your work situation and in retrospect your jobs did not match your intellectual capacity or your personality for that matter. Someone like yourself should have been encouraged to go to school and develop themselves in that direction but at that time I lack in maturity and did not have the benefit of experience under my belt. I fell victim to that mentality which was to conform to my position not challenge any directive given by Staff or Art and just go along for the ride. This was way too easy for me and matched my personality to a tee. Later this created a huge conflict within me as I wanted to try different things and all I keep hearing was I did not need to go in certain directions and to just be happy and grateful with where I was at. This was the one point and beef I had with the Seed I needed to grew and experience new things I needed to cut some ties and venture out on my own find my own strength and individuality. All this is hindsight and we were just trying our best to figure things out.  

One major event that really opened my eyes was when you left in the middle of the night. I was the last person that you saw from the Seed that night. Do you remember? You going out to the living room in the middle of the night and we watched some stupid grade B comedy you looked tormented and I wrote off as just not being able to sleep and just like that you were gone. The next morning I was awaken by Bob W to a barge of questions about you. I can clearly remember Bob explaining to me how we all had a past and these things happened and this kind of confused me with the way I was suppose to feel. I had no ill feeling or anger toward you just felt sad that you were gone and I knew that I would miss your presence but I also knew or had an idea as how I was suppose to react to the situation so I just stayed silent and harbored any questions or feelings I might have had about the whole situation.  I remember laughing to myself when I realized one of the only things you took was your electric piano thinking how you must of loved that piano.
 It was at this time I saw for the first time not all was perfect in our little world and I never really saw that some day in the not too distant future that I to would be wresting with very similar issues.
I remember you with very fond memories and imagine my surprise to find you on this web site finally getting the full explanation to an event that left me so perplexed many years ago. By the way I always enjoy your posts and have nothing but good wishes for you and your family.   I guess you can accuse ?of looking at the world thru rose colored glasses?, as we use to say but it was people like you that I met while I was at the Seed that I look at the Seed as a very good and worthwhile experience. I certainly appreciate your point of view because it comes from someone that live the experience just as I did.  
       
Thanks Wally Gator,
 from a long lost Cuban brother
CG

Anonymous:
Hey Stripe,

Just throwing an old cheap shot you wished you have thrown 30 odd years ago? Give the guy a break at least he has the balls to post. Is this not the purpose of this site to discuss to listen and to come to terms? John's post must be like a wet dream to Greg & Antigen. I for one hope he keeps posting and expressing himself. Sometimes it?s hard to see the forest thru the trees my friend.

Anonymous:
I swear it sounds and begining to feel like a womans homeless shelter or clinic or abused wives home.  Maybe you should direct this shit btowards your husband.  I don't mean to be insulting, but thats what its beginning to sound like...  ::boohoo::  ::boohoo::

Filobeddoe:
Greetings to you again John from a fellow Seed graduate. I am glad that you took some time to read other posts & to respond again.

Your point about the lack of discussion on this board about "helping others" is well-taken BUT... I don't believe it is fair to conclude that the commonality of the members as a bunch of self-obsessed spoiled brats.

The whole point of relating in a forum like this is to share "your" experiences and the events that affected "your" life. So it is not unusual to run into alot "I this" or "I that".

Even the most jaded & cynical of the former seedlings can think back & remember many times where they a) were truly glad to see a fellow new-comer finally "get it" & start to be honest and to see his/her face "glow" with genuine happiness or b) while a fellow seedling was being come down on in the rap was able to say something that they could relate to & that helped them or c) felt at some time (for a relatively brief moment)  that The Seed really could change the world because they could see how the program was helping "them" or d) saw the new tough guy doing the hokey pokey & having fun or e) helped a newcomer see that it could be "cool" to be straight.... etc.

Let's face it.. The Seed used pretty extreme peer pressure to counteract peer pressure. Some call it brain-washing and it could certainly have good & ill effects. Particularly if there is no room for debating certain issues, which the program did not tolerate. The Seed wasn't a messy democracy but a more efficient dictatorship.. which arguably is what was needed but not ideal. I can remember a time in Guys Rap when we were talking about games we used to play with chicks for example & someone would describe how they had a lot of FUN going out surfing with the girls or out riding dirt bikes, etc... when that really wasn't the "right" thing to say & they got pounded verbally. Anything about the "old days" couldn't be fun because we were so f**ked up & miserable - which of course wasn't always true. But, we had to say we were miserable to "fit in" and avoid getting stood up. If the program would have tolerated more "honest" conversation & some debate while instilling the core principles you talked about (self honesty, love of self & others, etc) it would have helped a lot. When I told someone passing by "I Love You".... many times it was heartfelt but after awhile I was just "saying" what I was supposed to say. Know what I mean?

I am no expert, but from what I have heard about  AA over the years... it seems to be a better program in respect to allowing the participants in the group to do or say whatever they want while trying to impress on them that it is the common experience that "if you do "X" then "Y" will happen, but if you don't believe it go find out yourself. We will be here for you anytime you need help". That is a very compassionate & empathetic support group. By contrast, The Seed could be very caring & supportive BUT only if you said & did the right things and didn't ever question Art or Staff.

As "I" have said here in this forum a few times, I am glad that I went to The Seed... it helped put me on the right path after "hitting the bottom" at the tender age of 16. However, when I graduated I did not want to continue participating because it was so rigid and I was paranoid about getting thrown back in. I was lucky to have a group of seedlings in my town that I stayed friends with for many years. We had fun & helped each other grow into adulthood. I did & still do try to help people with problems tho & I give you & The Seed alot of credit for helping me "grow up". Thank you!
Greg J
Sarasota

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