Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Against My Better Judgement
rod:
This forum is fantastic!!!Congrates to who ever started it up!!I found you all just by chance!I now live over seas and have recently been following the unjust arrest of peace protesters in St.Pete which occurred in front of Baywalk,which led to Sembler corp.,that led on to straight and then on to you guys.
Hey John,remember me?I escaped in the middle of the night barely squeezing out thru the bathroom jaluosie windows.I was pretty damn desperate to get out.It was my third and final escape.I was lucky.My parents didn't put me back in under a court order.
John, you have to admit,the Seed was a unique and profound experience!Now at 50 I still think back on those days with great interest.It was difficult for the first few years after leaving because everything I did was an inner battle between the freedom to be an individual or conforming to the ideas of the group.
But a few years after escaping I ran across a book about mass brainwashing of American POWs
by Korean military and it was all there!Food and sleep depravation,physical uncomfortableness,(we were like sardines on those wooden benches)sin and confession,cut off from any family contact(for POWs mail)everyone on the outside inclueding family and friends are out to hurt you,or forgotten about you because you are worthless,but we (seed/Koreans)can save you,we can make you whole again!John,it might help to do a little reading and research.
And as far as others,I can still see all those
trapped faces.Faces from as young as 9 on up to the 24 year old with the full beard.(during my last days there he shaved it off)I wonder what has happened to them all?What's happened to Libby
or Paul or the great con and showman himself Art Barker?
We all went around chanting "I LOVE YOU" and how happy we were because every day straight was just like christmas but it was all so fake!In reality there was no tenderness within the system of the program.It was a program of cruelty and humiliation in order to indoctrinate.
And you know something,I'm not angry at you or hate you, what good is that going to do me and I'm sure you could give a f__k,but I do feel sorry for you.And I understand your anger which comes from the fear of one day realizing the Seed was wrong and you were part of that wrong.
Coming to terms with that is not going to be easy, but when and if you do, it will make you a better person.
Anyway glad I've run in to you all and I'll be dropping in now and again to see what's up.
Ya all take care!
The seed indeed is all you need. HA!
Robin Martin:
--- Quote ---On 2005-08-11 19:25:00, Filobeddoe wrote:
"Greetings to you again John from a fellow Seed graduate. I am glad that you took some time to read other posts & to respond again.
The whole point of relating in a forum like this is to share "your" experiences and the events that affected "your" life.
Let's face it.. The Seed used pretty extreme peer pressure to counteract peer pressure. Some call it brain-washing and it could certainly have good & ill effects. Particularly if there is no room for debating certain issues, which the program did not tolerate. The Seed wasn't a messy democracy but a more efficient dictatorship..
--- End quote ---
OK, NOW I FINALLY GET IT...Isn't it Greg, Antigen and Stripe that are using EXTREME peer pressure to create a more efficient dictatorship? ::bigsmilebounce::
cleveland:
Thanks CG, my long-lost Cubano friend, for your posting. I remember the night I left so well, I will never forget it. I will never forget you either, and I am so glad that you are doing well in life.
By the time you came on the program, I had more or less settled into my role as Wally Gator, happy-go-lucky guy, maybe a little eccentric and shy, but sometimes pretty funny. It felt a lot like the role I had played in my family, the peacekeeper, the older brother, the good student who could be the class clown too. While inside I was torn up with feelings of loneliness, isolation, and self-hatred, on the outside I was all smiles. What was inside of me was so horrible to me, felt so out of control, and was so opposite of what I felt I projected to the world, that I didn't know how to bring these two worlds together. I know that everyone feels this, but I don't think everyone feels it to the extent that I did. I had panic attacks when I was around people I didn't know or feared, or that I knew and felt insecure around. Somedays, my eyes would water with tears I couldn't control, or my throat would tighten up so much that I felt I couldn't breathe, and I had chronic digestive problems and high blood pressure. Fun, eh, for a 20 year old? I don't blame the Seed for this, I came in that way, but they did NOTHING to help me with this. Nothing. How could they? I was surviving as I always had, but projecting a socially acceptable exterior to the world while trying to keep my real feelings at bay. I can't even explain how difficult this was. (Thank god I am a different person today).
Meanwhile, I was trying to be a good seedling and help out. I worked menial jobs by and large, sat in raps, played endless boring games of football or softball, which I can't stand (I really tried to love it, but it was the most boring, frustrating and humiliating activity for a non-jock like me to waste my life on). I related. I tried to be funny, because being emotional was beyond me. I never cried once - never - in 7 years as a Seedling. In fact, my emotions were completely shut down. (I cry all the time today, my wife thinks it's hysterical).
OK, here's the point. I recognized you and some others as being sort of like me. I resented it, because we were the 'nice guys;' the kind of awkward, shy and funny guys who try to fit in, but it's hard for us, isn't it? We're not the jocks, not the alpha-male types, and we often had locked deep inside powerful emotions we couldn't handle. We are prisoners within our lives. And we are exactly the type of person the Seed used to do a lot of the day to day. Let the guys and chicks with big egos run the raps, they love it and need it and it keeps them in line (and they won't change either - JU still sounds like a rap leader, coming down on us weaklings). We're firmly entrenched in our family roles, it's just a new family.
If I helped you and others at all, it was because I let you know (selfishly) that it was OK to be you. I desperately hoped this was true, because then it could be OK to be me too. I used humor, my sidekick, and I would let you know that you could bend the rules a bit, as long as you meant well, and that even though we weren't ego driven leader types, we could do good at the Seed, be happy, and accept our lot in life. 'Be happy with what you've got.'
That was only half of the story. The truth was, I was miserable inside. I still had my lonely demons to wrestle with. And I knew it wasn't OK to talk about it. I knew, 'cause staff let me know, that I was a little 'weird' and emotionally fragile (Scott B. would tease me about being the kind of guy who would 'start shooting people from a steeple' and I feared it was true). Also, as much as I loved you, I resented that fact that I was stuck in the same group as you, another one of the 'nice guys.' I wanted to be an ego person. I wanted to lead raps. I wanted to have a glamorous job, so I could talk about how little it meant to me like some of the other guys who were corporate VPs or owned companies. I wanted acclaim, wanted to be good at baseball and football, wanted the girls to remember my name and laugh at my jokes, wanted to have dinner with staff. It was never going to happen. I was going to be loyal, lonely, unhappy, smilin' Wally Gator until I died. Helping people? I had to help myself first, and I was never going to do that at the Seed.
JU, I have been able to embrace my whole personality and realize what I am. I don't need you to stand me up and tell me how weak I am, or patronizingly be my 'friend'. Thank god. I see you for what you are, flawed like the rest of us. US US US not me me me, if it makes you feel better.
CG, I will never forget my days at the Seed. I will never forget you and my other friends. I wish I could have truly been a friend with you, shared my life as I really learned how to live it. At the Seed, we had our roles to play, and we were never able to change that.
I love this forum. I do...I feel that all that was locked up inside of me during my seed days I can now express. It is a liberation. Thanks Greg and Ginger (and JU and Robin and Marshall and 80s Guy and even the crazy postings about the CIA, et al)
Antigen:
A-Men, Cleveland! Though I never had the sort of kinship and affection for Seedlings that you did, I do remember very well the ever growing conflict you describe. Same physical symptoms, too, starting at around age 11 or 12.
Robin, have a seat! You're started over, day one! You'll be going home w/ Karen tonight. Karen, you make sure Robin gets honest. :rofl:
Seriously, though. Challenging debate is not the same thing as brainwashing. It's interesting to me to hear about how things changed and how things remained the same over the years.
You should be allowed to do whatever you want with your own person and property, as long as you don't physically harm the person or property of a nonconsenting other.
Peter McWilliams - Ain't Nobody's Business If I Do
--- End quote ---
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2005-08-11 20:05:00, rod wrote:
This forum is fantastic!!!Congrates to who ever started it up!!I found you all just by chance!I now live over seas and have recently been following the unjust arrest of peace protesters in St.Pete which occurred in front of Baywalk,which led to Sembler corp.,that led on to straight and then on to you guys.
--- End quote ---
De nada! So glad you happened along. If you don't mind my asking, which country are you living in now and how did you happen accross news of the Baywalk thing? Is this story getting any significant international attention? I'm just waiting for some decent treatment of the similarities of philosophy and method between the Program and the way we're treating POWs and other detainees.
The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system.
--Thomas Paine, American revolutionary
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