Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

Against My Better Judgement

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Anonymous:
I do find a consistent, persistent theme, ...a commonality, ...your bond. Me, me, me, me, me, ...I, I, I, I, I , ...I was subjected to..., this happened to me..., ad nauseam.

One of the things I learned very early on in the Seed was Talk about Yourself, you, you, (ie,me) (me)(me) I don't find it unusual at all that in my postings I would only talk about my experiences & my frame of reference, it is after all the only thing that I really can speak about with any certainty isn't it? I actually would find it rather odd if people posted about others? Wouldn't most?

Anonymous:
of course unless you were just struggling to find fault with a website that is at odds with the lies you have been telling yourself for the last 33 years.

Anonymous:
I was envolved with the Seed for over 30 yrs. I never once saw anyone beaten or hit.  I guess anything is possible but I never saw it.  In fact if anyone ever slightly hinted violence it was quickly stopped. I myself have been known to have a quick temper but I've also been told I'm a kind and gentle person.  Actually remembering back now I did hit a close friend once.  He was working on his car had greese all over his hands.  We were the best of friends, but he Fu--ed with me trying to put greese on my face.  I told him I woud hit him if he did it.  He did and I hit him. I remember a couple tears rolled down his face. I told him what did you expect me to do?  We were still friends for years after. We workrd it out. We were in our early twenties.

GregFL:
I don't think there ever was a culture of beating kids at the seed.

I do think, and did observe, staff getting very angry at misbehaviors and then things getting out of control. I remember escapees being sent home with bigger kids, stood up and dared to try to run...this was implied violence. (I also remember them running from the big guys after the threat  :grin: )

I did observe,and even shamfully participate in, kids getting roughed up that tried to escape the St Pete Seed.

I have knowledge of the staff in St Pete threatening the group with, and then following thru with the threat to bring the parents of misbehaviors into the back rooms and hit their kids at the direction of the staff. The sound did waver into the group and a song was ordered to cover it up...I was there and it later made the press...regardless of any denials by former staff. A girl did come back to the group with a black eye after an encounter in the back room with the staff and her parents. These incidents were TERRIFYING when I was 14. I also remember this practice ending pretty quickly after it began. Whos grand idea was this? Why did it stop so suddenly? Did Art have knowledge of it? IF so, did he order it stopped?  

These are realities.  Whether you or anyone else remember or even know about this stuff it did occur.

There are other first hand reports about things getting out of control at oldcomers houses even bordering on the perverse (big frank getting his bare ass spanked for "acting like a baby" at 13 by an older boy).

There are stories about misbehaviors being locked in the back rooms a la isolation room "therapy".  

There is an account of a girl, kidnapped from school by rabid seed parents, thrown in a car and injured..this was witnessed by students and teachers at the school and the mother stated in the press these parents volunteered and claimed her daughter would be "dead insane or in jail" if they didn't comply. She pulled her and Art issued a statement that the seed doesn't condone such activities. IF that happened in this day and age, that parents responsible would have gone to prison.

All kinds of things happened at the seed and rarely were they spoke of.

cleveland:
John,

Against your better judgement! Indeed, I am surprised to see you posting again here. I didn't think it would happen. I am very glad to see it. Your original post opened a small flood of responses, from all different angles. And as far as I am concerned, that is a good thing.

My response to you would be: yes, the Seed held some positive elements for me. No doubt. I really tried to love the people I was with and be the best person I could be. I learned from that. Some of my high school friends did die, go insane, and end up in jail. Some of them went on to have great jobs, families, etc. The Seed pulled me out of my life, gave me an alternative, and set me on a different path. In some ways, it may have been better than the path I was on; in other ways, it was a very narrow path and I did not have the freedom to venture from it at all.  

I came out of a very disfunctional family - my family had problems with depression, alcohol, anger. My parents had divorced, a family friend had been murdered. I was looking for support and an alternative, and checked myself into the seed voluntarily, following my brother who went in with a bit more coercion. When I left the Seed, I had to face all of the issues that leaving my family had left unresolved. I was an extemely loyal 'Seedling' for almost a decade. I left with nothing - no friends followed or enquired about me, I had no career, no education - I had some twisted ideas of what it meant to be a good person (everyone is a druggie!) along with some history of making close friends - with guys only of course. Reintegrating with society and family, enrolling in school, getting a job, a girlfriend, etc. was all very exciting and scary too. I also had my family and personal demons to work on - anxiety, phobias, depression, obsession, the temptation of substance use/abuse - the Seed had really not equipped me to deal with these things, beyond exorting myself to 'get out of my head.' I needed some things that the Seed had never supplied, and had even denied me. I had to find to set my own moral compass.

As far as helping other people - hey, I had newcomers. I tried to help them, given what I knew from my seed training. Did I? Did it do good? Perhaps one will post here at some point and I will know. I do know that now, as a socially, politically, intellectually engaged person, I try to do well - I volunteer, I work for a progressive non-profit, I have a wife and a child, we recycle! etc. I try to live a good life. The seed experience was a part of that, but I have a very different direction from what 'Seed straight' was.

When I look at our society - drug addiction, misery, and crime - I know that we are lacking something. Families are still sending their kids to AA or Seed-type programs. Personally, I hope my daughter never needs to leave her family to get what she needs. I suppose there are worse things that could happen to a person than being locked (mentally) in a warehouse for 10 hours a day and bing told they are weak and worthless (for instance, Catholic School! - and aren't there recovery groups from that authoritarian society too?)

John, you seem to think that we are all pussies who can't take reality. I guess we are all still worthless and weak, and selfish too, if that's what questioning our seed experience makes us. I don't buy it. Life is complex and full of shades of gray that Art and the Seed didn't allow us to explore.

Perhaps Art's experience of war set the tone - don't question the command structure, loyalty above all, obedience...no fooling around! Get out of your head! Sit up! And I am sure that is necessary during combat. Is it necessary during life?

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