Author Topic: Carlbrook  (Read 511699 times)

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Offline try another castle

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2550 on: March 21, 2009, 01:58:05 AM »
Quote
schools that would not have been possible otherwise.

oh, here we go again, with the hypothetical argument.


Can we all definitively say in one breath that we have no idea how we, (or, conversely, our kid who we decided to get rid of for a few years) would have turned out if not for the program?


It bores me.


Do a comprehensive double-blind study with a control group, then maybe you'll have grounds to open your piehole about this. Otherwise, shut your face, cause you don't know SHIT.


Here, read this: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27137

Some ideas on how to conduct such a thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2551 on: March 21, 2009, 09:26:17 AM »
AKA pre-emptive and eternal buyers remorse prevention clause

"My child....otherwise...."

Had my 3rd cousin, the bond trader, otherwise chosen a career in animal husbandry he wouldn't have perished in tower 2.

Had I opened my mouth - and said so - I wouldn't know Mel.

 
Praying for tidal waves

Suck it down
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2552 on: March 21, 2009, 01:28:40 PM »
Amazing bullshit.

There's nothing hypothetical about knowing that a kid using drugs, cutting class, and heading down a road to ruin has no chance. I doubt that my son would have finished high school let alone get accepted to a good college.

My son is grateful for Carlbrook. I'm sorry that some of you are either too obstinate or too stupid to know that you need help.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2553 on: March 21, 2009, 01:43:16 PM »
Quote from: "JD"
Amazing bullshit.

There's nothing hypothetical about knowing that a kid using drugs, cutting class, and heading down a road to ruin has no chance. I doubt that my son would have finished high school let alone get accepted to a good college.

My son is grateful for Carlbrook. I'm sorry that some of you are either too obstinate or too stupid to know that you need help.

Using drugs, cutting class - OMG!

Well... thanks for the instant reminder how much an asshole a parent must be to use  a program.

 I bet you called your kid stupid all the time too, jerk!
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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2554 on: March 21, 2009, 01:50:31 PM »
Your kid is in college.

Good for him.

How is he going to reconcile his experience in 3, 5, 10, 15 years?

Oh that's right.

You don't have a plan for that.

I'll never forget Doug Kim Brown, the 1990 headmaster of RMA, telling me how he responded to his most vexing 'treatment'  question from 'outsiders'.

What if the kid does well for a few years after graduation, and then fucks up. What if he really fucks up and is no better off?

His canned response was:

"These parents desperately wanted their (normal) kid back, these parents wanted to make things right, WE GAVE them that result. Even if it was for just 2 years".

I remember him telling me that - that answer was magnificent.

It was "The Answer".

Healing, therapeutic, applicable, 'one in a million', .

His sermon verified my hollow and purchased redemption.

Resolution.

I was in complete reverance of that statement for 15 years (as you are now).

Now it is clear. Doug bought into the program in the beginning, felt he was doing his best. And soon realized it was a CEDU crock of shit.

The justification justified short term profit. It just justified the means to your end.

If you come here to fornits to claim we are all degenerates. If you come here to claim that there are now 'plenty' of good programs. Then you are obligated to address the malfesance of the industry's foundation.

Your well spent money on your fixed kid is a direct result of the guinea pigging of the 70's, 80's and the 90's.

Their is a wake of destruction with kids who went through the programs in that era.

Stand up and take accountability for your holy grail.

Wake up and smell the aftermath.
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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2555 on: March 21, 2009, 02:17:23 PM »
I'll stand by my word.

Google Doug Kim Brown.

Call his school in Northern Idaho (just north of Bonners Ferry, ID {AKA RMA/CEDU})

and ask him:

1. Why did you leave RMA?

2. How is your program different from RMA"

3. How is your program similar to RMA ?

4. What are your top 3 regrets/disapointments during  your RMA tenure?

5. Give me a 2 minute overview of the industry.

6. Give me your 30 second opinon of the 'industry's' downside.

7. Give me your 30 second opinion of the 'industry's' upside.


# 8

Oh shit - reason does not apply to emotionally charged parents with 'out of control' teens !!

Instead just bury your head deeper in your ass flavored sand.

Throw money at everything

Throw money at money while you're at it

Then we can have a nationally syndicated, Donald Trump endorsed TV show called:

Throw money at money apprentice

or

When things get bad just throw more money at it and publicise the shit out of it !!

Fucking kids ... how many hundred dollar bills will it take to make them behave ?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2556 on: March 21, 2009, 02:18:38 PM »
Sounds like it's all hopeless for you.

Is every car a piece of shit because the Yugo existed?

What's your solution?
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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2557 on: March 21, 2009, 02:27:58 PM »
I'm sorry.

I just got back from Target.

I bought this gadget

A currency printing press.

Everything has gone to my head.

I'm printing hundred dollar bills by the dozen.

All the wealth.

You know.

It goes to my head.

I forget who I am.
I forget why I am here.
I forget why I go to work.

I just know I need a lot of money to make my situation work.

I have a wife.

I have kids.

I have a house.

I have credit cards.

I can deal with that
but
I have 1 kid who is a fucking pain in the ass.

He won't lobotomize.

I just wanted to get married.
I just wanted a wife.
I just wanted a kid.

Now everything is fucked up.


I don't have the ability to deal with him.

Now I need a program.

Doesn't anyone have the fucking answer?
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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2558 on: March 21, 2009, 02:34:24 PM »
My solution?

Are you fucking kidding me?

How about a time machine you cock sucker?

How about we all stop arguing and paying each other ridiculous sums of imaginary money and
 
treat each other with common decency.
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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2559 on: March 21, 2009, 02:38:13 PM »
When I go to the " Yugo piece of shit car event" in des moines iowa in 2044

I'll make sure I stop by your Yugo tent and engage in a


ro

sham

bo

type of

event with you.

loser gets to kick himself in the nuts repeatedly

are you game?
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Offline try another castle

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2560 on: March 21, 2009, 04:34:05 PM »
Quote from: "JD"
and heading down a road to ruin has no chance. I doubt that my son would have finished high school let alone get accepted to a good college.


That is the purest definition of hypothetical ever.

Thank you for proving my point.


Psy should get you in touch with a certain parent who used to feel the same way you did. Then she started listening to her kid, who is also a carlbrook grad, and what they went through, and changed her tune. It was amazing, and the biggest 180 I've ever witnessed. I wasn't impressed simply because she started to agree with people, in fact, she is in full capacity of  her own opinion. Rather, she started actually realizing that being a parent doesn't always mean you are entirely 100% right 100% of the time.

Let me clue you in to a little secret. When a kid has a problem, it is not just the kid's problem. It's a family problem, and everyone has had a hand in it. These places always place the blame on the kid, even if admissions tells you it's a family problem.

I am a CEDU alum, and my program was almost identical to Carlbrook's, since that is where CB got its dogma from. We were the parent of the program your kid went to. Would you like to know what they start teaching you the minute you walk in the door? That your parents are unfeeling assholes who have done nothing but crush your inner child since day 1, and sent you away because they just want to abandon you. Hell, the first workshop, called the truth at CEDU, and I believe is called integritas at CB, bases it's entire premise on how your "chrome ball" was sullied and made filthy by people in your life who have done nothing but keep you down. The #1 culprit  they tell you? Your parents. You spend almost every rap doubled over, snot pouring out of your nose, screaming "FUCK YOU MOM! FUCK  YOU DAD!" Then the program turns around and tells you that your parents did the best they could, while at the same time teaching the kid that you are both uncaring assholes. It's totally schizophrenic. These are some of the things that your child will never tell you about carlbrook, because while they are still indoctrinated, they ally themselves with carlbrook, not you. (BTW, chances are that will wear off after a few years, and then the post-program roulette wheel will spin and land on a number that will determine the REAL course your relationship with your now adult offspring will take. Let's hope it doesn't hit green, because that's happened, and then your kid will be in the ground.)

The CEDU clones don't fix your family. They BECOME your family. The family that REALLY understands, and while your son/daughter is under the influence, that is where their heart lay. Once they come out of it, (if they do), there is a good possibility that they will at least harbor SOME level of resentment for you, for the rest of their lives. This is also hypothetical as it pertains to your situation, but it is not in terms of what has happened to people who come out of these places. I promise.

I pride myself in the fact that I have let go of the resentment towards my parents regarding this, (years ago) and I daresay that I have a pretty functional relationship with them, and even so, there is still that little ball of hell-yeah-I'm-pissed that is buried deep inside, along with the parts of you that harbor survival instinct. As such, it is non-negotiable, even if you want it to change it, you can't. I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention the fact that I was towing the CEDU line for about three years after the fact. I wasn't pissed off about it right away, either. In fact, while I was there, I was so under the influence that I used to have nightmares about my parents pulling me from the program. It's like coming out of a coma.

The fact of the matter is, Carlbrook has changed your relationship with your kid forever, and I promise you, it is not the package you paid for, even though things may seem like rainbows and unicorns now.

And why does it do this? Because the beginning of that road starts with a simple betrayal of trust on your part. Most kids get up to these places by escort, trickery, or a sudden realization that this place is VERY different from what they expected. (The first two scenarios, btw, are normally the suggestion of the program scaring the crap out of you, and is rarely an idea the parents came up with on their own. (The program then capitalizes on this, btw, by demonizing the parents.) Maybe parents feel slighted because their kid has betrayed their trust. Well, you know what? That happens with teens, because that is the age where they test their parents. You did it too, but most likley differently, because it was a different generation. Every generation thinks that this is the worst batch of teens that has ever existed, and will be responsible for the downfall of civilization. Well, it hasn't happened yet. Admissions capitalizes on the desperation a parent will feel about their kid. They will scare you even more than you are already scared. And then offer a one-size-fits-all cookie cutter solution to fix everything. Your kid does not get specialized treatment or care, btw. They get what everyone else gets. Nothing more or less.

I recommend asking your kid exactly what went on in those workshops you paid for, because biting down on a towel while yanking both ends as hard as you can, to the point of practically destroying your jaw, while staff are screaming bloody murder in your ears, to the tune of rocky, and doing that three times in a row, isn't my idea of family therapy. What do you think?

Chances are, they probably won't tell you about any of this. Don't you think that is a little weird?

This is the real tragedy of these places. They do more than compromise the psyche of your kid, they compromise the entire family.


I normally don't provide this much of a wake up call to a program parent, for some reason, I was feeling generous today. You may think I am being callous, or even lying, but please trust me when I say that I really don't talk program like this because I want to fuck with you.

I got into college, too, by the way, and there are people on this forum who have stated unequivocally that the academic program at CB is similar to the one at CEDU's, which is most certainly sub par. The reason I got into college is because I was smart enough ahead of time, enough so that I could lose two and a half years of a valid education and still make around a 1200 on the SATs. So, your kid deserves some serious congratulations on that.

You may not believe or agree with anything I say, but I ask you, for the sake of argument, talk to your kid and ask exactly the kinds of exercises and things they did in the workshops and raps. Any response you are going to get out of this, btw, will be weird. They may be evasive, or be vague, saying things like "It taught me to trust my inner child, and take responsibility." instead of actually telling you WHAT they did. Or.. they will tell you exactly the types of things that happened. If you are lucky, the last scenario won't happen. The workshops they put the parents through, if they still do that, are NOTHING like what your kid went through.

I'll leave you with this.. there is a VERY GOOD REASON why these places don't tell you exactly what happens behind the closed doors of a rap or workshop. It's because, in their words, the parents "won't fully understand."

Well, god knows, I hope not!
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2561 on: March 23, 2009, 04:21:20 PM »
Quote from: "JD"
and heading down a road to ruin has no chance. I doubt that my son would have finished high school let alone get accepted to a good college.

Quote from: "try another castle"
That is the purest definition of hypothetical ever.

It's not hypothetical if you know what it takes to get accepted.

Quote from: "try another castle"
Psy should get you in touch with a certain parent who used to feel the same way you did. Then she started listening to her kid, who is also a carlbrook grad, and what they went through, and changed her tune. It was amazing, and the biggest 180 I've ever witnessed. I wasn't impressed simply because she started to agree with people, in fact, she is in full capacity of  her own opinion. Rather, she started actually realizing that being a parent doesn't always mean you are entirely 100% right 100% of the time.

We listened and still do. The therapists listended.
We never thought we were always right.

Quote from: "try another castle"
Let me clue you in to a little secret. When a kid has a problem, it is not just the kid's problem. It's a family problem, and everyone has had a hand in it.

We are and were acutely aware of this. We also know that we did not have the ability to help. We worked with psycholigists, psychiatrists, teachers, talked to him about what he wanted for himself... nothing took.

Quote from: "try another castle"
These places always place the blame on the kid, ...

... Would you like to know what they start teaching you the minute you walk in the door? That your parents are unfeeling assholes who have done nothing but crush your inner child since day 1, and sent you away because they just want to abandon you.

You're contradicting yourself.

Quote from: "try another castle"
The CEDU clones don't fix your family. They BECOME your family. The family that REALLY understands, and while your son/daughter is under the influence, that is where their heart lay. Once they come out of it, (if they do), there is a good possibility that they will at least harbor SOME level of resentment for you, for the rest of their lives. This is also hypothetical as it pertains to your situation, but it is not in terms of what has happened to people who come out of these places. I promise.

I know many parents and children who have not expereinced this, and that's not hypothetical.

Quote from: "try another castle"
The fact of the matter is, Carlbrook has changed your relationship with your kid forever, and I promise you, it is not the package you paid for, even though things may seem like rainbows and unicorns now.

Talk about a doomsday hypothetical!

Quote from: "try another castle"
I recommend asking your kid exactly what went on in those workshops you paid for, because biting down on a towel while yanking both ends as hard as you can, to the point of practically destroying your jaw, while staff are screaming bloody murder in your ears, to the tune of rocky, and doing that three times in a row, isn't my idea of family therapy. What do you think?

Even though he voluntarily told us about the workshops, we have asked more probing questions all along. He has said it's hard work but he has a great appreciation for the process and looks forward to forthcoming workshops.

My son has gone through every aspect of the program with a critical eye and a healthy dose of reality & skepticism. He takes what he wants and leaves the rest behind. He can spot the true believers and let's them be. And he's not alone. I have met and spoken to a number of current and former students. Some are indeed true believers and seem to have issues that will not be resolved at CB, but nearly all are strong, well-adjusted realists looking forward to bright futures.

Quote from: "try another castle"
I normally don't provide this much of a wake up call to a program parent, for some reason, I was feeling generous today. You may think I am being callous, or even lying, but please trust me when I say that I really don't talk program like this because I want to fuck with you.

I appreciate the time you've taken. Believe me, I know what kind of energy it takes.

Quote from: "try another castle"
I got into college, too, by the way, and there are people on this forum who have stated unequivocally that the academic program at CB is similar to the one at CEDU's, which is most certainly sub par.

Everything I've seen about the academics at CB is nothing less than rigorous. The quality of the academic staff far exceeds that of any school I've seen to date. The variety of subject matter is also amazing considering the size of the school. For example, how many high schools are you aware of that offer Latin?

Quote from: "try another castle"
The reason I got into college is because I was smart enough ahead of time, enough so that I could lose two and a half years of a valid education and still make around a 1200 on the SATs. So, your kid deserves some serious congratulations on that.

I know my kid is smart. Thank God we did something before his talents were all wasted. He too is grateful. He's found his passion again.

Quote from: "try another castle"
You may not believe or agree with anything I say, but I ask you, for the sake of argument, talk to your kid and ask exactly the kinds of exercises and things they did in the workshops and raps. Any response you are going to get out of this, btw, will be weird. They may be evasive, or be vague, saying things like "It taught me to trust my inner child, and take responsibility." instead of actually telling you WHAT they did. Or.. they will tell you exactly the types of things that happened. If you are lucky, the last scenario won't happen. The workshops they put the parents through, if they still do that, are NOTHING like what your kid went through.

We've gotten details, perceptions and lessons. He tells us a lot.
At the parent meeting they also told us that what we experienced is nothing compared to what the kids do -- and what we did was not exactly fun. IMO, the parents who participate have their eyes wide open.

Quote from: "try another castle"
I'll leave you with this.. there is a VERY GOOD REASON why these places don't tell you exactly what happens behind the closed doors of a rap or workshop. It's because, in their words, the parents "won't fully understand."

Of course, you can never truly know if someone is withholding information, but I have never experienced evasiveness from any of the staff.

I believe that CB is the right place for my son and our family. Do we wish it could have been avoided? Of course! It's no fun having him so far away.

Is CB right for everyone? Absolutely not. I've seen a few kids there who probably need something else. There are probably a few who don't need a TBS at all.

I also cannot doubt that over the years there are parents who "warehouse" their children. Truth is, when we were preparing for the first visit I fully expected to see detached parents who had the cash to do so. I even expected some to not even show up. I thought I would run into some "blue bloods" who couldn't get their child accepted into the prestigious academies because of academics, drugs or other issues. The fact is, every child was represented by at least one parent and all were involved and deeply concerned. I will also say that there is one child who I don't believe belongs there -- Frankly, it's the father that needs some serious therapy. I think of that child all the time and hope they find peace.
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Offline try another castle

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2562 on: March 23, 2009, 04:49:25 PM »
Quote
 
Quote
try another castle wrote:These places always place the blame on the kid, ...

    ... Would you like to know what they start teaching you the minute you walk in the door? That your parents are unfeeling assholes who have done nothing but crush your inner child since day 1, and sent you away because they just want to abandon you.



You're contradicting yourself.


Thanks, I should have been more specific. My point is that BOTH of these subtexts exist in the program, and that is indeed contradictory. Like I said, totally schizophrenic.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2563 on: March 23, 2009, 07:14:13 PM »
Quote from: "try another castle"
Quote
 
Quote
try another castle wrote:These places always place the blame on the kid, ...

    ... Would you like to know what they start teaching you the minute you walk in the door? That your parents are unfeeling assholes who have done nothing but crush your inner child since day 1, and sent you away because they just want to abandon you.



You're contradicting yourself.


Thanks, I should have been more specific. My point is that BOTH of these subtexts exist in the program, and that is indeed contradictory. Like I said, totally schizophrenic.

It's actually consistent with all relevant forms of psychotherapy. Ultimately, regardless of what people say or do, you are solely responsible for your actions and feelings.
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Offline try another castle

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2564 on: March 23, 2009, 07:17:24 PM »
Quote from: "JD"
Quote from: "try another castle"
Quote
 
Quote
try another castle wrote:These places always place the blame on the kid, ...

    ... Would you like to know what they start teaching you the minute you walk in the door? That your parents are unfeeling assholes who have done nothing but crush your inner child since day 1, and sent you away because they just want to abandon you.



You're contradicting yourself.


Thanks, I should have been more specific. My point is that BOTH of these subtexts exist in the program, and that is indeed contradictory. Like I said, totally schizophrenic.

It's actually consistent with all relevant forms of psychotherapy. Ultimately, regardless of what people say or do, you are solely responsible for your actions and feelings.

This wasnt about responsibility, though. What is presented is nothing less than demonizing, and painting everyone in a completely myopic and inaccurate light. I can assure you that the exercises that came from cedu have nothing to do with valid therapeutic practices.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »