Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Brat Camp
Typical Day at Sagewalk
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-26 20:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
""I saw on national TV...", this sums up Deborah.
"It can take years to acclimate to a different climate." Oh grow up----you relentlessly silly woman---people---especially young people---are a lot more resilient than you try to make them out to be--
And here you are, apparently worried about sanitary napkins that might be found by predators...and choking on uncooked lentils for God's sake...I think the camp people can handle all this City Girl
News flash, Deborah: these kids in the Brat Camp programs---nd the various othe programs you try to drum up complaints against---are NOT YOUR CHILDREN
Their own parents will make the determination of what is needed in their lives. It's not your business--so get a hobby or something to fill your days
Seems to me that this is all about avoiding how badly you managed the upbringing of your own children---by concentrating in things outside of that central issue(yeah I hear that you didn't want your kids in program--but why did your husband--and/or the courts---put them there: you obviously hadn't done a stellar job in bringing them up to be productive citizens)
These programs are doing good---leave them alone---what good are you doing with your endless, detailed clueless posts that transparently try to portray evil and danger where there is really possibility and potential???
"
--- End quote ---
Anon, honestly ... Deborah makes so very good points. Try looking at it from the perspective of someone who is OPEN MINDED to learning something new.
Kids come in different sizes, different shapes. These one-size-fits-all therapy in the woods camps are like cattle drives.
Round em up, march em out, feed and water them, put em to bed, etc.
Wilderness therapy is not the magic bullet. Parents should take their own kids camping, spend time and money BONDING with their own kids instead of paying for their kids to bond with some lazy a** camp counselor with an attitude problem of his own.
:silly:
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-26 20:39:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"I was not going to respond to this thread as I have not seen anything worth responding to up till just recently.
I believe that wilderness therapy can be very benificial in certian situations. However, the very crux of the matter being that short term wilderness programs can not help a kid effect long term changes. How can you expect a kid to change his behaviors that he has spent an entire lifetime learning?
Further, what good is eating out of a cup going to do a kid who is Bipolar? Not a whole lot as far as I can tell.
What needs to be remembered is that a wilderness program is the first step in a long ladder for a great many of these kids. Run properly I think a wilderness program could be a good experience for just about any kid. That is what I like so much about the Outward bound programs. They are more focused on improving character than actually treating specific issues. In outward bound its about toughening up a bit, rather than learning how to deal with being bipolar though wood bow drilling or what not.
A few weeks out in the woods would have worked wonders for my lazy ass when I was a teenager. Now focusing specifically on these programs that are promising the moon, while delivering charred oatmeal. I hate to say it they are about the dollars. Nothing more nothing less. Short term camping is a good thing for kids, but a terrible place to address treatment issues like depression, and the rest of the alphabet soup family of neurological disorders.
Full well knowing this I would happily send my kid to some place like Outward bound for the experience of backpacking, and living in the woods. I would not send them their for treatment. If I had a child with that sort of disorder the wilderness aspect would only be the first step of the process.
Upon return I would have the rest of his/her treatment in place. In no way would that immediately involve an out of home placement. I would not dismiss it as an option, but it would never be my first choice.
"
--- End quote ---
Well said! Makes a lot of sense!
:nworthy:
AtomicAnt:
I forgot about the NIH study. It was related to violence, so I will be attacked for it, but I think the same logic applies to any poorly behaved teen.
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/oct2004/od-15.htm
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-26 21:07:00, AtomicAnt wrote:
"I don't think your tone is constructive.
I have read dozens of articles on this subject and consulted with friends and family. My sister has a PHD in adolecsent psycology, my wife is a board certified psychiatrist. My wife has worked in drug and alcohol rehabilitation programs, in prisons, and with the homeless. She pointed out the success ratios these programs claim are insane. If they use follow-up at all, they use unreliable self surveys. A kid is not going to risk going back by telling the company that runs his program that he has fallen back into his old habits.
Both my wife and sister informed me about something called 'situational adaptation.' It is a problem in almost all rehabilition programs. It is basically similar to Stockholm Syndrome. The patient in the rehab program will genuinely change their psycology to reduce the negative stresses the programs place on them. They are not faking it, and so appear to be helped. but when the program is over, the adopted behavour doesn't stick. Thus coercive programs usually don't work. A person has to want to change. They cannot be forced.
I won't pretend to be an expert on the subject, but there are just too many bad stories out there to ignore.
To me it is simply unconscionable to place a child in a situation where they are isolated and in the hands of strangers. If abuse does occur, they have no recourse and no one will believe them. I would not let my children go to SW anymore than I would let them sleep in Michael Jackson's bed. I don't care if he was aquitted, it just ain't right.
The program I attended was called simply Wildnerness Challenge. I don't know much of the details because I never looked into it, but it was not a for profit affair. It was sponsored by the school district. The director was reputed to be a survivalist expert who had trekked to the N. Pole. The groups were chaperoned, yup, along with our guides/counselors we had chaperons. In my group, our chaperons included my eighth grade english teacher and the principal to the school where I attended sixth grade. I had adults I knew and trusted with me.
The program was offered through the high school. I don't know how all the kids were recruited. I was convinced to go by a friendly 'intervention' of kids and teachers I knew. They talked me into it. It was only after the program that I was informed by one of the kids that they had been instructed not to let me leave the room until I agreed. That stung a bit.
Of the eight kids in my group, three of them were my classmates. The program was essentially, community based. I remember how it made me feel good to know these people all cared about me.
Oh, I was just told to add the following:
These for profit programs don't find fault with the parents because they want their money. Therefore, they place all the blame on the kids. This allows the parents to feel less guilty by shipping the problem child away instead of dealing with him/her as a family. The child may change, but is returned to an unchanged family and any gains will be either reversed, or suppressed due to the child's new found fear. These repressed problems will come out with a vengeance once the child becomes an adult and moves out."
--- End quote ---
Excellent!
What do you think is the biggest problem with BRAT CAMP? Personally, I don't like the "labeling" of the teens and resent SW and the producers for allowing this to occur. If these kids are truly troubled, why are they being exploited and ridiculed with these asinine labels?
Shame on the parents, too. They are the ones who signed away the rights of their own children.
AtomicAnt:
Treatment options for adolescents with depression are similar to those for depressed adults, and include psychotherapy and antidepressant medications (see major depression for a review of treatments and self-care). However, one major antidepressant, Paxil, now has a warning NOT to be given to children under 18.
Family therapy may be helpful if family conflict is contributing to the depression. Support from family or teachers to help with school problems may also be needed. Occasionally, hospitalization in a psychiatric unit may be required for individuals with severe depression, or if they are at risk of suicide.
Because of the behavior problems that often co-exist with adolescent depression, many parents are tempted to utilize punitive solutions like "boot camps", "wilderness programs", or "emotional growth schools."
These programs frequently utilize non-professional staff and use confrontational therapies and harsh punishments. There is no scientific evidence which supports use of these programs. In fact, there is a growing body of research which suggests that they can actually harm teens, particularly sensitive teens with depression.
Depressed teens who act out may also become involved with the criminal justice system. Parents are often advised not to intervene, but to "let them experience consequences."
Unfortunately, this can also harm teens through exposure to more deviant peers and reduction in educational opportunities. A better solution is to get the best possible legal advice and search for treatment on your own, which gives parents more control over techniques used and options.
Though a large percentage of teens in the criminal justice system have mental disorders like depression, few juvenile prisons, "boot camps" or other "alternative to prison" programs provide adequate treatment.
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