Author Topic: A cult?  (Read 56965 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #375 on: May 31, 2005, 11:54:00 PM »
Buzz you really are too much. Greg gives you examples from the book that say very degrading things and you still justify away. He is interpreting it wrong, thats not what it really menas, blah blah. I looked at it and it looked pretty damn degradign to me. So yuo are off your rocker about this as are many Christians. Show them the truth of it and they still try to prove you wrong. Ah. Oh well.
Amanda
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #376 on: June 01, 2005, 08:17:00 AM »
Sorry, Amanda, gotta agree with Buzz.  Give chapter and verse.  The Bible reports hisory as well as gives instruction.  Just because the Bible says man does something, doesn't mean that God told him to or that it was right.  David had an affair...but God didn't tell him to.  He chose to.   Man messes up, God cleans up.  The Bible clearly tells men to love their wives as Christ loved the church.  that means serving to the point of giving up their own life for their wife.  That is not degrading, but is honoring.
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #377 on: June 01, 2005, 08:17:00 AM »
Sorry, Amanda, gotta agree with Buzz.  Give chapter and verse.  The Bible reports hisory as well as gives instruction.  Just because the Bible says man does something, doesn't mean that God told him to or that it was right.  David had an affair...but God didn't tell him to.  He chose to.   Man messes up, God cleans up.  The Bible clearly tells men to love their wives as Christ loved the church.  that means serving to the point of giving up their own life for their wife.  That is not degrading, but is honoring.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #378 on: June 01, 2005, 04:19:00 PM »
Isnt the whole bible supposed to be written by god? Just the interpretation of what god wanted written by men? So then everything in it is gods word right? Then everyhtin in the bible was mandated by god then. So all that stuff greg wrote is written by god so yeah. Then it is what god thinks is "right" for us then correct? Will you tell me the verse where god says that? And what of the other verses that are degrading? Are we supposed to ignore those becuase of one vrese, which conincedentally makes what you say contradictory. If the bible says one hting about women and then says the opposite it is a contradiction no? So yeah, I feel you are all just trying to protect and defend a very contradictory sexist religion.
Amanda
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #379 on: June 02, 2005, 07:16:00 AM »
The Bible is NOT written by God...it is written by men who thought they knew what God wanted them to write. It also reflects the culture of those who wrote it in their time. And remember the King James version, which is what most of us in the english speaking world read now, has been changed from the original version. Also, the disciple Paul was known to not have a very high opinion of women so his beliefs reflect in some of the Bible's text. From what I have read about Jesus, his opinion was different from Paul's. So you cannot take what the Bible says verbatim as the Word of God.....despite what some might want you to believe.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #380 on: June 02, 2005, 02:32:00 PM »
Last I checked, gospel meant "good news" not "literal account of history and/or biography"

I can tell you one thing, though. This thread is damn near eternal!

Both sides have repeated their logical or faith-based points until theyre blue in the face, but still won't shut up!  :rofl:

A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.

--Anonymous

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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #381 on: June 02, 2005, 03:26:00 PM »
What I find interesting is that even the christians cannot agree on what is the truth.

The bible is the word of god.

The bible isn't

Young earth creationists

Old earth creationists


The TRUTH is, no one knows.


I Don't know, and you don't either. The difference is, some people's minds are as locked as fort knox.

Give me some new information to consider and I will believe in God if the evidence sways in your direction. Some of you people won't readdress your positions in spite of any amount of evidence.


Nithalantic, I agree. The subject matter is beat to death...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #382 on: June 02, 2005, 03:29:00 PM »
Greg, it's historically evident that Jesus was gay.  He advocated "loving thy neighbor as thyself"---clearly an instuction to join a circle jerk.  He hung out with twelve guys, Mary Magdalene was what we would today call a "fag hag".
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #383 on: June 02, 2005, 05:44:00 PM »
Greg, you once said it doesn't take faith to be an atheist.  How  do you know there is no God?  What evidence swayed you to believe that God doesn't exist?
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #384 on: June 02, 2005, 06:04:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-02 14:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Greg, you once said it doesn't take faith to be an atheist.  How  do you know there is no God?  What evidence swayed you to believe that God doesn't exist?"


I don't "know" any such thing.

Also, for me To believe in something requires evidence. The evidence presented to me to date suggests there is no supernatural world whatsoever and that the biblical accounts  of creation and the flood are fiction. Further, the much touted "prophesies" of the bible are non-existent and backward looking wishfull thinking, similar to the Bible code.

So to answer your other question, There was no evidence that swayed me to not believe. You are buthering logic here. Correctly stated, there is not sufficient evidence presented to date to convince me that the God myth is based in reality. What really happened was as a young man, I believed, went exploring, read the bible and lost my faith because the evidence was sorely lacking and God, as presented in the bible, was sorely different than as presented by the people selling the myth.

I don't profess to know the mysteries of the universe, nor am I arrogant enough to propose I have solved them all in one single swoop with the adoption of a 4000 year old mythical pre-modern man story about how and why this universe exists.




"I don't know, and you don't either"

Tom Leykis
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #385 on: June 02, 2005, 06:08:00 PM »
Wouldn't agnostic be the more appropriate term, instead of atheist then?
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #386 on: June 02, 2005, 06:17:00 PM »
absolutely not.


Agnosticism is someone who believes he doesn't have sufficient knowledge. You can be a theist or an athiest and still be agnostic.

Atheism is one that lacks belief in a god or gods.


I am both. I am an agnostic atheist.  Someone who generally believes in god but doesn't understand why, this person is really a agnostic theist.

By the way...

You are an atheist as well, in all other god's other than the one you profess your belief in. My atheism just includes  one more god...yours.

If someone asked you, for example, if you believed that Zeus was the supernatural creator of the universe, you would I think be atheistic towards that position.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #387 on: June 02, 2005, 06:23:00 PM »
I think, when reading again your above sentence, that perhaps you confuse all atheists with what is termed a "strong atheist".

A strong atheist believes there is no god and sets out to prove this. I think philisophically this is an untenable position, similar to religion, because it doesn't leave room for new information.

The default position is not religion, it is not "strong atheism" or even agnosticism, it is atheism. Everyone is born this way and learns their religion thru cultural influences. This is why the religion you are is dependent statisticaly on WHERE you were born.

Atheism is not a dirty word, it is merely a lack of belief in a supernatural god.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #388 on: June 02, 2005, 06:52:00 PM »
Greg, I am glad that you state that you are not closed to the learning of new information when it comes to God.  Neither am I.  When we quit looking, asking, seeking, that is when we become closed and dogmatic.  I believe many Christians and atheists are this way.  Unfortunately, they are the ones that give everyone a bad name.  There is no way anyone can prove or disprove the existence of God.  It has to be a proponderance of evidence and your decision of faith has to be based on probability.  No, I should say, your decision of faith SHOULD be based on probability.  I do know some real head cases that believe in some very out there stuff that has NO evidence other than their great imagination.  Anyway, I am a Christian, but still learning, seeking, studying, and not closed to anything when it comes to God.  By the way.  Hope you had a great trip!
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #389 on: June 02, 2005, 08:00:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-02 15:52:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Greg, I am glad that you state that you are not closed to the learning of new information when it comes to God.  Neither am I.  When we quit looking, asking, seeking, that is when we become closed and dogmatic.  I believe many Christians and atheists are this way.  Unfortunately, they are the ones that give everyone a bad name.  There is no way anyone can prove or disprove the existence of God.  It has to be a proponderance of evidence and your decision of faith has to be based on probability.  No, I should say, your decision of faith SHOULD be based on probability.  I do know some real head cases that believe in some very out there stuff that has NO evidence other than their great imagination.  Anyway, I am a Christian, but still learning, seeking, studying, and not closed to anything when it comes to God.  By the way.  Hope you had a great trip!"


Thanks! Actually, had to rush back due to a death in the family, but all is well. Just got back to my house today.

I am open to new evidence for god. So far unfortunately, the evidence I have reviewed keeps pointing me in another direction.  I could be wrong,however at this point I suspect I am not.

Love your post. I only wish to point out one thing...

"no one can disprove god"

Your statement here.  The answer is of course your statement is true because no one can prove a negative. I cannot prove god doesn't exist, because in the supernatural realm, you can just adjust and adjust ad nausem.

For example, suppose I believe that bigfoot exists. you cannot disprove that either.

Bigfoot exists.

How do you know?

I saw him.

How do you know you werent mistaken?

I just know

How come there are no fossils?

They just haven't been found yet.

How come no bodies have been recovered?

They have, the government is hiding the evidence.

And on and on.

Now, what happens when  I endow him with supernatural powers?  It gets impossible to argue the negative...

How come so few have seen him?

Because he chooses who he comes to.

HOw come no fossils?

He is a spirit?

How do you know?

He told me.

ad nausem

Go ahead and try it, it is a fun exercise in logic and skeptical thinking.  You absolutely positively can take both sides of the argument and argue into a draw every time.

From this vantage point then in order to arrive at weather something is likely or not likely to be true, one should dismiss this idea offhand and adopt a more rational way at arriving at the truth, and the scientific method gives us a clue on what is reasonable.

That is, always allow for new information and before you believe something fantastical or supernatural, require strong evidence.

What is strong evidence?  That is up to the individual to decide. Personally, I throw out testimony, I throw at anecedotal evidence and the more outrageous the claim (supernatural bigfoot) the more evidence I require.

This works for me.  Others just choose to be credulous. Evidence of that attitude exist in this thread, the constant adjusting of the position to keep the foregone conclusion intact.

Anon, thanks for your participation in this thread. I absolutely love discussing religion with people who are open to listening to other people, even when they disagree. On the other side, it is an exercise in frustration discussing religion with most dogmatic people because they either bail to intelectual dishonesty or get mad or frustrated.
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